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I found it rather amusing that you edited out that post.marksman said:Can't help yourself can you because you always like to have the last word.
Well not unexpected given the source, but he's on my ignore list so I only reacted to your reply.The Barrd said:What a notion, eh? :wacko:
Good for you, Stan!StanJ said:Well not unexpected given the source, but he's on my ignore list so I only reacted to your reply.
Are you saying the pope is the anti-christ? The catholic church has many non material issues wrong with it, but many material issues they got right. No anti chirst religion will teach Jesus as they do. The trinity is sound.brakelite said:The RCC claims the trinity as being the foundational doctrine for all of Rome's beliefs. That all other doctrines derive from the doctrine of the trinity. It worries me that the vast majority of Christendom accepts a foundational doctrine of the Antichrist as the basis for their understanding of the nature of God. When you get the foundations wrong, how can the building hold together?
Completely agree. I attend an Assemblies of God church who does exactly this.marksman said:The church needs to ditch its one man paid pastor (CEO) methodology and start implementing a five fold ministry and let the Elders run the church on a day to day basis.
Tell ya what, Brakelite.KingJ said:Are you saying the pope is the anti-christ? The catholic church has many non material issues wrong with it, but many material issues they got right. No anti chirst religion will teach Jesus as they do. The trinity is sound.
God is love 1 John 4:8 and the greatest act of love is to lay your life down for another John 15:13. When we bash the trinity.....we open the door for much more heresy. If Jesus is not God, He was one really unlucky fella. God would be sick / evil...not close to the epitome of 'love'.
AOG churches are congregational type of constitution, so the pastor is never over all. That type of constitution is called presbytry, an example of which would be Foursquare. However in that case, the denomination has heads hip over the pastor.KingJ said:Completely agree. I attend an Assemblies of God church who does exactly this.
Now, why does that not surprise me?KingJ said:Completely agree. I attend an Assemblies of God church who does exactly this.
I guess we humans will never learn...tom55 said:Jesus said he will build his Church on a rock and the gates of hell will not prevail against it and whatever is bound on earth will be bound in heaven. Scripture also says if your brother sins against you and he won’t listen to two or three of you, take it to the Church for them to settle it. And if he refuses to listen to the Church then treat him like a pagan or tax collector. That means YOU, sitting in your house reading/interpreting the bible on your own or with 4or 5 other people can’t be a Church. It also means that where two or three are gathered in His name can’t be a Church either. If the two or three who are gathered in His name disagree who are they to take it too if THEY are THE Church?
What is THE Church that Jesus spoke of and who does scripture show are the leaders of that Church? Jesus was the leader of the Apostles and when Jesus died the Apostles became the leaders of the new Church. In Acts 15 we see that the Apostles and other leaders from the local churches came together to discuss and make a decision that was binding on all Christians. That issue (circumcision) was discussed/argued by the Apostles/elders and, with very heavy influence from Peter, it was James who made the final judgement. This meeting, The Council of Jerusalem, destroys some people’s theory that “local churches” have authority over their sheep. The Church has a Shephard, not shephards, to lead His flock. We are one body, not many bodies with different beliefs and teachings. Scripture clearly tells us there is no such thing as a Church of one (me sitting and interpreting scripture alone in my basement) or “local churches” making their own doctrine on what the truth in scripture is and what they are going to practice individually or locally. The local church theory makes the infallible word of God fallible 30,000 times.
So did that leadership and decision making process that was binding on all Christians stop when the Apostles died? Scripture and historical writings tell us that the leadership was passed down. Like when they voted to replace Judas or decided that Paul was a leader in the Church or when they appointed leaders for individual local Churches to carry on what the Apostles/elders were teaching. Scripture tells us that they made rules on what it took to be a bishop or deacon in the Church (1Timothy3). Jesus didn’t make these authoritative decisions; men did. In scripture John Doe didn’t just start his own church and then send word to the apostles that he needed their blessings. A man, approved by the apostles/elders, was chosen to lead/start a new church. He was to teach/preach what they taught him. Not create his own doctrine. If he had any questions on what to teach he was to ask what to teach; not interpret scripture by himself. They established a hierarchy. They established a Church with the elders, bishops or deacons at the top having authority. Over the years when the leaders of those Churches died new leaders were to be chosen in accordance to scripture. As THE Church grew these men made rules (the Didache) on what to do in Church, how to baptize and choose new leaders among other things.
Some seem to think that scripture is easy to understand and all we need is scripture to figure out the truth. Well, scripture tells us that it is hard to understand and even Nicodemus, Israel’s teacher, didn’t understand it so Jesus explained it to him. If scripture is the truth then why do we have so many different “truths” being taught? I agree with Hammerstone’s statement that “the problem is not Him, it's us…”! I think WE have thrown out the authority that Jesus, scripture and history has given us. WE don’t want to have one Shephard to lead us and WE don’t want to be one body in Christ. WE have decided WE know how to read scripture and interpret it without twisting it. WE have decided that everyone else is twisting scripture to their own destruction! The Catholics twist it, the Mormons twist it, the Baptist twist it, the Methodist twist it; NOT ME!! I am my own authority!
Scripture and Christian history clearly shows us that Jesus and the Apostles established a Church with authority and hierarchy. With the authority passed down by Jesus to his Apostles (who then passed it to the elders/bishops/deacons) they are able to baptize (Matthew 28:19). They are to teach us to observe all things He commanded (Matthew 28:20), heal the sick by anointing with oil (James 5:14). That authority was passed down to men like Timothy who, by the authority invested in Paul, was to command certain people not to teach false doctrines (1Timothy1:3) since it promotes controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work. Paul said they (referring to people who were teaching without authority) want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. He said to watch your life and doctrine closely and to persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers and the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others. It is clear throughout scripture there was authority to teach a certain doctrine and that authority was passed down. Without authority His Church is not on a rock, it is on shifting sands.
What branch of Christianity has authority over my life?
Tom55’s Answer: A good start would be to look for the “branch” that at a minimum meets the above teachings from scripture.
The divinity of Christ does not need to be abandoned if one rejects the trinity. I have explained further here...http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/22301-is-jesus-the-son-of-godtruly-or-metaphorically/KingJ said:Are you saying the pope is the anti-christ? The catholic church has many non material issues wrong with it, but many material issues they got right. No anti chirst religion will teach Jesus as they do. The trinity is sound.
God is love 1 John 4:8 and the greatest act of love is to lay your life down for another John 15:13. When we bash the trinity.....we open the door for much more heresy. If Jesus is not God, He was one really unlucky fella. God would be sick / evil...not close to the epitome of 'love'.
No KIngJ, I am not saying the pope is the Antichrist. What I believe is that the Roman Catholic system is the Antichrist. The entire hierarchy, RCC Inc. Here is an article I wrote on the Antichrist. https://brakelite.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/antichrist-revealed/KingJ said:Are you saying the pope is the anti-christ?
I notice that you didn't answer my question.The Barrd said:Do you use a piano or any other musical instrument in your worship service?
The New Testament never once mentions instrumental music in the service, and there are churches that will not use them because of this.
It also doesn't mention electricity or indoor plumbing...but I don't think anyone has a problem with these.
Why you are so focused on a meeting place is totally beyond me.
However, just so that you know, "Love Inc." meets in our homes.
I was talking to a brother last Sunday morning and he said he was in an AOG for three years prior to this church but had to leave as the pastor believed he was always right as he heard from God but no one else did so there was no discussion or testing.StanJ said:AOG churches are congregational type of constitution, so the pastor is never over all. That type of constitution is called presbytry, an example of which would be Foursquare. However in that case, the denomination has heads hip over the pastor.
My AOG is then unlike this one. We have 4 elders who oversee all teaching. They come under further oversight from elders at other churches. We appoint a ministring pastor and have open ministry on Sunday evenings.marksman said:I was talking to a brother last Sunday morning and he said he was in an AOG for three years prior to this church but had to leave as the pastor believed he was always right as he heard from God but no one else did so there was no discussion or testing.
I understood what he meant as I was a founding member of an AOG in my town run by the same pastor. Once again that same attitude was evident and in addition he was a false prophet because he said that God told him he was going to double the congregation every year.
Their numbers have done the opposite, going downhill. All the founding members have left. If God had doubled the congregation each year he would have one of about 46,000. He has less than 50.