But see, that's just it. Mormonism looks to founder Joseph Smith for at least some doctrine, and many things he said clearly contradict the Bible. And then there are the Mormon "prophets" who have contradicted the Bible.
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What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor
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A person could (and do regularly) argue the exact same thing about John Calvin and other Protestant traditions.
But frankly, it's not any leader (Protestant, Catholic, LDS, etc) that saves us. It's Christ. If salvation is a person's primary concern, then Christ & faith & grace should be the forefront of a conversation. All other subjects (John Calvin, Joseph Smith, Sola Scriptura, Creeds, etc) are of lesser concern.
Nondenom40
Active Member
None of those things are equal to God's written word.
It is futile to tell a Mormon about the Bible being God's written Word. They believe that it was corrupted, therefore their other *sacred writings* have equal or better authority. You will notice that their religious writers quote from the other books more frequently than from the Bible.
It's true that salvation is a primary concern. This is based on the real gospel revealed in the Bible. Any "gospel" that adds to what the Bible says or changes from what the Bible says is not the real gospel.
Gal 1:8-- But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!
2 Cor 11:14-15-- For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.
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I'm reposting this from page 30 of this thread.
The following excerpt is from "Appendix 2" of Unveiling Grace: the Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church by Dr. Lynn Wilder (original formatting changed, emphasis in bold added):
I believe that this is part of the false LDS gospel.
The following excerpt is from "Appendix 2" of Unveiling Grace: the Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church by Dr. Lynn Wilder (original formatting changed, emphasis in bold added):
MORMONISM TEACHES: The Mormon Church Is the Only True Church • “And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually” (D&C 1:30). Here, allegedly, Christ himself gives Joseph Smith and the other early church leaders power to lay the foundation of the only church with which he is well pleased. • “I was answered that I must join none of them [Christian churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage [Jesus] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19).
***Jesus Christ is the foundation of His Church, not any mere humans, and this has never changed. Why would Christ tell men to lay the foundation of His Church, which He Himself had already laid?? He would not.
I believe that this is part of the false LDS gospel.
Actually, LDS Christians firmly believe that the Bible is the Word of God.
However, LDS Christians don't believe that God's words are limited to the 66-81 books of the Bible (depending on which Bible you're using, LDS Christians use 66 KJV).
Don't stop just as verse 9!
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
This is a critical passage of scripture. To know Truth, we need to look to revelation and Jesus Christ Himself. Not to any man.
It's already been established what LDS considers to be the word of God. The problem is that the other books, including the Book of Mormon, clearly contradict the Bible.
I have listed some of the most glaring contradictions between the Bible and LDS scriptures on page 30 of this thread. (Reposted below)
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Perhaps others reading this thread need to know this.
Yes, I know, and this is a huge problem!
Nondenom40
Active Member
No we don't. We believe the ekklesia is the one true church. Those called out ones are in many churches. All the born again are part of the ekklesia where ever they are. And Protestant is a pretty wide ranging group. As far as catholicism goes, the Mormon church is part of protestantism. One of the reasons I reject the term.
Protestantism is not a church.
One of the main tenets of the Protestant Reformation was Sola Scriptura.
The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).
Source: What is sola scriptura? | GotQuestions.org
Source: What is sola scriptura? | GotQuestions.org
I'll repost it for you.
The following excerpt is from "Appendix 2" of Unveiling Grace: the Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church by Dr. Lynn Wilder (original formatting changed):
QUICK DOCTRINAL COMPARISON OF MORMONISM AND THE BIBLE
THE BIBLE TEACHES: The Church Consists of the Body of Believers • “Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us” (Rom.12:4 – 6). • “Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it” (Eph. 4:3 – 7). • Jesus said, “I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it” (Matt. 16:18). • Also see: Matt. 18:19 – 20; Mark 3:24 – 25; 1 Cor. 1:10 – 12; 12:11 – 14; Eph. 1:22 – 23 (cf. Col. 1:24); 5:25 – 26.
MORMONISM TEACHES: The Mormon Church Is the Only True Church • “And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually” (D&C 1:30). Here, allegedly, Christ himself gives Joseph Smith and the other early church leaders power to lay the foundation of the only church with which he is well pleased. • “I was answered that I must join none of them [Christian churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage [Jesus] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19).
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THE BIBLE TEACHES: God Is Spirit • “To the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever” (1 Tim. 1:17). • “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). • “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Col. 1:15). • “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18). • “ ‘Who can hide in secret places so that I cannot see them?’ declares the LORD. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ ” (Jer. 23:24).
MORMONISM TEACHES: God the Father Has a Body of Flesh and Bones • “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22). • “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see . . . he was once a man like us . . . and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345 – 46).
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THE BIBLE TEACHES: There Is One God • “ ‘You are my witnesses,’ declares the LORD, ‘and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me’” (Isa. 43:10). • “This is what the LORD says — Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. . . . Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock [God]; I know not one” (Isa. 44:6, 8). • Also see: James 2:19; Deut. 6:4; Neh. 9:6 (cf. Hos. 13:4); Isa. 45:21 – 22.
MORMONISM TEACHES: Plurality of Gods — Do Not Accept the Triune God — Man Works His Way to Godhood. • “Then they shall be gods, because they have no end . . . then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods . . . and the angels are subject unto them” (D&C 132:20). • “They have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods” (D&C 132:37). • “Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (see Abraham 4:1 – 31; 5:1 – 21). • “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost a distinct personage or spirit, and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 370).
THE BIBLE TEACHES: The Church Consists of the Body of Believers • “Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us” (Rom.12:4 – 6). • “Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it” (Eph. 4:3 – 7). • Jesus said, “I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it” (Matt. 16:18). • Also see: Matt. 18:19 – 20; Mark 3:24 – 25; 1 Cor. 1:10 – 12; 12:11 – 14; Eph. 1:22 – 23 (cf. Col. 1:24); 5:25 – 26.
MORMONISM TEACHES: The Mormon Church Is the Only True Church • “And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually” (D&C 1:30). Here, allegedly, Christ himself gives Joseph Smith and the other early church leaders power to lay the foundation of the only church with which he is well pleased. • “I was answered that I must join none of them [Christian churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage [Jesus] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19).
===============
THE BIBLE TEACHES: God Is Spirit • “To the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever” (1 Tim. 1:17). • “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). • “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Col. 1:15). • “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18). • “ ‘Who can hide in secret places so that I cannot see them?’ declares the LORD. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ ” (Jer. 23:24).
MORMONISM TEACHES: God the Father Has a Body of Flesh and Bones • “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22). • “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see . . . he was once a man like us . . . and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345 – 46).
===============
THE BIBLE TEACHES: There Is One God • “ ‘You are my witnesses,’ declares the LORD, ‘and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me’” (Isa. 43:10). • “This is what the LORD says — Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. . . . Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock [God]; I know not one” (Isa. 44:6, 8). • Also see: James 2:19; Deut. 6:4; Neh. 9:6 (cf. Hos. 13:4); Isa. 45:21 – 22.
MORMONISM TEACHES: Plurality of Gods — Do Not Accept the Triune God — Man Works His Way to Godhood. • “Then they shall be gods, because they have no end . . . then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods . . . and the angels are subject unto them” (D&C 132:20). • “They have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods” (D&C 132:37). • “Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (see Abraham 4:1 – 31; 5:1 – 21). • “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost a distinct personage or spirit, and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 370).
Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (p. 341-343). Zondervan. Kindle Edition. (Emphasis in bold and underlining added.)
***Lynn Wilder gives additional info about the comparison of biblical Christian doctrine and Mormon doctrine on her website here: Ex-mormon Christians United For Jesus | Sharing Biblical truth in love | Are Mormon Doctrines Christian?
Nondenom40
Active Member
Ya I prefer Christian. In certain books Mormons, jws, oneness Pentecostals and others are all lumped into protestantism.
We got a couple of different definitions of "church" going on here:
- A group of saved believers: LDS Christians do not constrain this to folks sitting in LDS Christian pews and acknowledging other folk can indeed be disciple of Christ (and many many are). For the most part Protestants believe likewise about folks not sitting in Protestant pews.
- The most correct theology: Protestant believe Protestant beliefs are the most correct (that's why they are Protestants). Likewise with LDS Christians.
I think your statements about what Protestants believe are way too broad. But the point is that general Protestant theology is based on the Bible. Key points of LDS theology are not.
Have you never seen this quote from Joseph Smith?
“I was answered that I must join none of them [Christian churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage [Jesus] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19)
Source: Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (p. 341-343). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
Source: Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (p. 341-343). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
This is mixing up different definitions of "church". See my previous post. Also, the "Biblical" idea here is actual the "Protestant" view. Many other Christians read that Bible and do not have that idea.
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The Bible teaches that the God the Spirit is a spirit. LDS Christians and Creedal Christians believe this.
The Bible teaches that the God the Son is spirit with a body of flesh. LDS Christians and Creedal Christians believe this.
The Bible doesn't specify on God the Father. LDS Christians believe He is like the Son, Creedal Christians believe He is like the Spirit.
Both LDS Christians and Christians which subscribe to the Athanasian Creed (which include Protestants) believe that there is ONE God. Three different divine persons, one God. There are difference in beliefs in *how* they are one, as LDS Christian do not subscribe to the Athanasian Creed.
None of these are contradictions with the Bible.
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