What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Jane_Doe22]

I think your statements about what Protestants believe are way too broad.

Have you never seen this quote from Joseph Smith?

“I was answered that I must join none of them [Christian churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage [Jesus] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19)

Source: Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (p. 341-343). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.​

And...?

LDS Christians believe their beliefs are most correct and you should join that church.
Protestant Christians believe their beleifs are most correct and you should join that church (in one of it's forms).

Exactly the same.


Also: LDS Christians acknowledge that folks not sitting in LDS pews can indeed be follows of Christ.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

This is mixing up different definitions of "church". See my previous post. Also, the "Biblical" idea here is actual the "Protestant" view. Many other Christians read that Bible and do not have that idea.

===============

The Bible teaches that the God the Spirit is a spirit. LDS Christians and Creedal Christians believe this.
The Bible teaches that the God the Son is spirit with a body of flesh. LDS Christians and Creedal Christians believe this.
The Bible doesn't specify on God the Father. LDS Christians believe He is like the Son, Creedal Christians believe He is like the Spirit.



Both LDS Christians and Christians which subscribe to the Athanasian Creed (which include Protestants) believe that there is ONE God. Three different divine persons, one God. There are difference in beliefs in *how* they are one, as LDS Christian do not subscribe to the Athanasian Creed.


None of these are contradictions with the Bible.​

What you're saying Mormons believe and what Lynn Wilder quotes from LDS documents are not matching up.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What you're saying Mormons believe and what Lynn Wilder quotes from LDS documents are not matching up.

With all possible due respect, Lynn Wilder's presentation of information is not accurate.

 

[farouk]

I think your statements about what Protestants believe are way too broad. But the point is that general Protestant theology is based on the Bible. Key points of LDS theology are not.

Have you never seen this quote from Joseph Smith?

“I was answered that I must join none of them [Christian churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage [Jesus] who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt . . .” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19)

Source: Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (p. 341-343). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.​

Seems like a useful quote, from the source, as it were...

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And...?

LDS Christians believe their beliefs are most correct and you should join that church.
Protestant Christians believe their beleifs are most correct and you should join that church (in one of it's forms).

Exactly the same.


Also: LDS Christians acknowledge that folks not sitting in LDS pews can indeed be follows of Christ.

There again, the basic doctrines of Protestant denominations are based on the Bible.

Some key LDS doctrines are not based on the Bible.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Seems like a useful quote, from the source, as it were...

Thank you. If you read Lynn Wilder's book, you will find many such useful quotes from LDS sources.

 

[farouk]

There again, the basic doctrines of Protestant denominations are based on the Bible.

It was Chillingworth, centuries back, who said: "The Bible, and the Bible alone, is the religion of Protestants".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There again, the basic doctrines of Protestant denominations are based on the Bible.

In your belief. Not others. With all due respect, I don't find some Protestant beliefs to not be supported by scripture alone.

Some key LDS doctrines are not based on the Bible.

LDS Christians doesn't subscribe to sola scriptura, let alone sola Biblia, so that doesn't hold much weight.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

With all possible due respect, Lynn Wilder's presentation of information is not accurate.

When I'm refuting the accuracy of information, I support what I say with examples. And it's your word against hers. I mean, she was a Mormon in good standing for 30 years of her adult life.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

In your belief. Not others. With all due respect, I don't find some Protestant beliefs to not be supported by scripture alone.

LDS Christians doesn't subscribe to sola scriptura, let alone sola Biblia, so that doesn't hold much weight.

Are you saying that some Protestant beliefs are not based on the Bible? if so, which ones?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

When I'm refuting the accuracy of information, I support what I say with examples. And it's your word against hers. I mean, she was a Mormon in good standing for 30 years of her adult life.

Same.
And I'm not selling you a book.

Are you saying that some Protestant beliefs are not based on the Bible? if so, which ones?

This will be a rabbit hole to go down. But yes, I don't find some key Protestant doctrines to be clearly spelled out in the Bible. They are one specific interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Same.
And I'm not selling you a book.

This will be a rabbit hole to go down. But yes, I don't find some key Protestant doctrines to be clearly spelled out in the Bible. They are one specific interpretation of the Bible.

Again, if you're going to make a statement, then you need to support it. Hey, I'm helping you learn to be a better debater.

 

[farouk]

Thank you. If you read Lynn Wilder's book, you will find many such useful quotes from LDS sources.

There are quite a few videos from Lynn Wilder on Youtube.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And I'm not selling you a book.

As a writer, I don't have a problem supporting a fellow writer by buying his/her book. I know how much time and effort go into writing a book.

Lynn and her husband offer free resources on their website.

Ex-mormon Christians United For Jesus | Sharing Biblical truth in love | Home

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Same.

You've been a Mormon for 30 years of your adult life? I would say an adult would be at least 18 yo. So, this would mean you're at least 48 yo?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Again, if you're going to make a statement, then you need to support it. Hey, I'm helping you learn to be a better debater.

For example (note this is NOT a essential-for-salvation doctrine):

Agreed belief: there is one God.
Agreed belief: the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different divine persons.

Point of disagreement: how are the three persons Father, Son, and Spirit one God?

The classical Creedal statement is:

“that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ” -- The Athanasian Creed.

I personally simply don’t find this talk of substance/essence to be straight up from the Bible and cannot ethnically believe likewise. What I do find in the Bible is support for the view that they are one through unity, particular in John 17. The whole chapter is great, but especially:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I acknowledge and respect people whom do believe as the Athanasian Creed states. I'm not remotely attack anyone about that. I'm just explaining my beliefs on this particular issue. Again, this is a non-essential-for-salvation doctrine.

 

[farouk]

You've been a Mormon for 30 years of your adult life? I would say an adult would be at least 18 yo. So, this would mean you're at least 48 yo?

Some of us are older than that...

 

[Prayer Warrior]

For example (note this is NOT a essential-for-salvation doctrine):

Agreed belief: there is one God.
Agreed belief: the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different divine persons.

Point of disagreement: how are the three persons Father, Son, and Spirit one God?

The classical Creedal statement is:

“that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ” -- The Athanasian Creed.

I personally simply don’t find this talk of substance/essence to be straight up from the Bible and cannot ethnically believe likewise. What I do find in the Bible is support for the view that they are one through unity, particular in John 17. The whole chapter is great, but especially:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I'm not familiar with this creed and frankly don't understand half of what it's saying. I go straight to the Bible, not creeds. Not dissing creeds per se. I just don't use them.

Statements of faith (basic beliefs) that I have seen for Protestant churches are usually very different from this creed.

Here's an example of a very basic statement of faith from the National Association of Evangelicals. I don't find anything in this statement that cannot be clearly supported by Bible verses. This is not to say that every evangelical would agree with this statement 100%, but each point can be easily be supported by Scripture.

Statement of Faith

We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.

We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.

We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.

We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.

We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation.

We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Source: Statement of Faith - National Association of Evangelicals

​

 

[farouk]

As a writer, I don't have a problem supporting a fellow writer by buying his/her book. I know how much time and effort go into writing a book.

Lynn and her husband offer free resources on their website.

Ex-mormon Christians United For Jesus | Sharing Biblical truth in love | Home

Thanks for the link...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm not familiar with this creed and frankly don't understand half of what it's saying. I go straight to the Bible, not creeds. Not dissing creeds per se. I just don't use them.

A statement of faith (basic beliefs) that I have seen for Protestant churches are usually very different from this creed.

Here's an example of a very basic statement of faith from the National Association of Evangelicals. I don't find anything in this statement that cannot be clearly supported by Bible verses. This is not to say that every evangelical would agree with this statement 100%, but each point can be easily be supported by Scripture.

Statement of Faith

We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.

We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.

We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.

We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.

We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation.

We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Source: Statement of Faith - National Association of Evangelicals

​

Everything in that statement LDS Christians would agree with. If you want me to talk about any specific points, I will happily do.