What Old Covenant Laws are the New Covenant believer to obey?

[Ziggy]

Jhn 3:10
Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jhn 3:11
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Jhn 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

We keep falling into the same trap. It's hard to think outside the box they built for us.
But we have to delve deeper than they delved. We have to soar higher than they soared.
We have to see beyond the physical world and peer into the spiritual realm.
We need to be born again with spiritual eyes and ears.
The OT is not born again. It is the carnal worldly man's understanding.
The NT is born again. It is the spiritual mind of Christ's understanding.
There is no difference between God's law in the OT and Christ's law in the NT.
The difference is in our understanding and application of it.

God himself admits that he gave them some bad laws because of the hardness of their hearts.
He allowed them to walk after their own understanding. They didn't want to hear.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

You have to work at it.

But then most people don't want to work at anything, they rather just claim ignorance and believe that grace alone will save them.
Grace is being homeless and having someone open their home and give you shelter.
That doesn't mean you get to sleep and eat all day and not contribute something for that grace.
Maybe you take out the trash or do the cooking or the laundry. But you should always give something in return.
Then the one being housed is blessed and the one doing the housing is blessed as well.
Blessings is a two way street.

What does God want from us?

To know him.

How do we know him?

Through his words.

What are his words?

His law.

Which laws?

All of them.

Mat 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Study. Meditate. Listen.
This is the work God requires from us. To get to know him and his ways.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

No, I'm on God's Word... He upholds ALL things by the Word of His power so I won't be going of any cliffs in to darkness

I'll stick with the New Testament... but thanks for thinking of me!

I see you like to cherry pick. You need to slow down and read what I wrote and not just fly off the handle.
Slow down.

I was talking about metaphors. Go back and read it again.
Without the OT there would be no NT.
Hugs

 

[Peterlag]

That still does not mean all of God's laws were nailed to Christ's cross. It's important to make sure brethren in Christ know that for certain, and not mislead them. Otherwise saying that all of God's laws are no longer in effect because Jesus nailed them all to His cross, is like saying that now it's OK to lie, steal, rape, murder, etc.

I can lie and steal and still be righteous with God. Nothing changes in my Christian walk. Now rape and murder I cannot do because the spirit of Christ will not let me...
For an in-depth look at how to walk by the spirit...
www.carb-fat.com/walking-by-the-spirit.html

 

[Arthur81]

Law of Christ

The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.

Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands").

Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Big Boy, we may be in the same church, and maybe on the same pew on this matter. What I am getting at I'll try to explain in the following. Do you agree with my approach as I've written as follows, or where would you revise and/or maybe disagree completely in my statements? You'll recognize that I am thinking of the view of our Reformed brethren on this topic, when I refer to our brothers.

What I am getting at is how to deal with being charged as being antinomian, lawless; when we take Eph. 2:15 for exactly what it says;

"For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end." (Eph 2:14-16 RSV)

I take that to mean the entire Old Covenant, the Law of Moses, including the Ten Commandments. But some brothers reply that the law is of 3 parts: Moral, Civil and Ceremonial and that only the Civil and Ceremonial were abolished, the Moral law (Ten Commandments) were not abolished.

I find problems with our brothers' view because I see no statement in scripture dividing The Law into 3 parts. It is a whole. Comparing Heb. 8:13 with Ex. 34:28 makes clear the Ten Commandments are a major part of the Old Covenant that was abolished, and was soon to disappear. The other view I have problems with is saying that the Ten Commandments still stand as an obligation on New Covenant believers, as if there was no everlasting law of God prior to Moses, and I reject that. God's everlasting law has existed from creation which may be found within the wording of the Ten Commandments; BUT, you do not find Paul quoting any of the Ten with the full and exact words as they came from the hand of Moses. Paul makes clear we are not to covet; but Paul says nothing about "slaves, oxes or donkeys" as the command is given by Moses.

Another problem I see with claiming the Ten Commandments are our obligation is how our brothers enlarge and include so many things within the Ten, such as how they expand the 7th Commandment as read in the Larger Westminster Catechism:

"139. What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
The sins forbidden in the seventh commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, adultery, fornication, rape, incest, sodomy, and all unnatural lusts; all unclean imaginations, thoughts, purposes, and affections; all corrupt or filthy communications, or listening thereunto; wanton looks; impudent or light behavior; immodest apparel; prohibiting of lawful, and dispensing with unlawful marriages; allowing, tolerating, keeping of stews, and resorting to them; entangling vows of single life; undue delay of marriage; having more wives or husbands than one at the same time; unjust divorce or desertion; idleness, gluttony, drunkenness, unchaste company; lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancing, stage plays; all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others."

The last part of the answer includes "undue delay of marriage(?); having more wives or husbands than one at the same time; unjust divorce or desertion; idleness, gluttony, drunkenness, unchaste company; lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancing, stage plays; all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others."

Such things as "idleness, gluttony and drunkenness" are surely sin and declared so in numerous places, but how that fits under the Commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery" escapes me. Once you let men start adding what they think is "moral", and should be seen as included under the 7th Commandment, you've opened the flood gates for Pharisaical notions. Those of this approach can find anything they wish written in the OT, and claim it is moral, and comes under the 7th Commandment.

I find the everlasting law of God to be what is meant in the following:

"When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." (Rom 2:14-16 NRSV)

When Jesus told the 11 apostles "teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you", I take that as written, and any law or command for the Christian is written in the New Covenant. Jesus lived under the Old Covenant, so caution is called for in understanding what he states as law in the gospels, whether it is included in the New Covenant as we find in the NT epistles.

 

[Arthur81]

If you are referring to the covenant that God made with Israel, recorded in Exodus 19,

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

I would answer that to consider yourself bound to these laws given by God to Israel would be like considering yourself bound to paying off your neighbor's car.

Paul clearly expressed the Christian's relation to the Law in Romans 7:

Romans 7:1-6 KJV
1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Much love!

My #5, though I worded it clumsily, is my understanding of the law or commands that the Christian is bound by, and we find those clearly given to us in the epistles. I find the everlasting law of God existing from creation to today and beyond, and we'd find that included in the epistles; with the exception of the two ordinances of the Lord's Supper and baptism which are for Christians. Maybe someone knows of another command of Christ given by the apostles that may be particular to the New Covenant. I'm guessing we are in some agreement on this?

 

[Arthur81]

Put me down for number 4. Why?

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

On this approach, I like to use the YLT, so to see if the definite article is included with "law". I take "the law" to be the Old Covenant; law without the definite article I find covered by Rom. 2:14-15 for Gentiles who were never under the law:

"And we have known that as many things as the law saith, to those in the law it doth speak, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may come under judgment to God; wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin." (Rom 3:19-20 YLT)

To me that general statement "works of law" means probably that mentioned in Rom. 2:14-15; and for me, I think it also include any law made as a requirement for salvation, such as the requirement of water baptism for salvation.

I admit, sometimes Paul speaks from his Jewish perspective and it seems he is speaking of the Old Covenant, but that would not include the Gentiles.

 

[Arthur81]

That's a guy who is.... not a Christian.

Romans 7 man knows He needs to get right with the Lord but has not been born again yet and cannot control himself so we know he does not have the Holy Ghost since self control is one of the 9 fruit of the spirit

Big Boy, you hold the Wesleyan or Methodist view of Romans 7 as in the following? ....

Adam Clarke, a godly Methodist scholar, and one I use in my studies regularly. I find him excellent on many things, but not his view of Romans 7 as he writes on v14 -

"It is difficult to conceive how the opinion could have crept into the Church, or prevailed there, that “the apostle speaks here of his regenerate state; and that what was, in such a state, true of himself, must be true of all others in the same state.” This opinion has, most pitifully and most shamefully, not only lowered the standard of Christianity, but destroyed its influence and disgraced its character. It requires but little knowledge of the spirit of the Gospel, and of the scope of this epistle, to see that the apostle is, here, either personating a Jew under the law and without the Gospel, or showing what his own state was when he was deeply convinced that by the deeds of the law no man could be justified, and had not as yet heard those blessed words: Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way, hath sent me that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, Act_9:17."

Adam Clarke's view is that Paul is using the "historical present", which is writing in the present tense but referring to the past. Historical present - Wikipedia

Some examples of this can be found: What Is the Historical Present Tense in English and How Is It Used?

I cannot see Paul writing in this manner for it just does not seem to fit. Also, what unregenerate man is the least bit worried about battling sin in his life?

 

[Bob Estey]

1. Everything that is not specifically annulled by name in the New Covenant?

2. All that is called "Moral" law which is the Ten Commandments PLUS what is added to the Ten such as in the Larger Westminster Catechism?

3. All the Old Covenant laws for they come from God?

4. No Old Covenant law for all was abolished and annulled?

5. Only the everlasting Law of God existing prior to the Old Covenant, which is also found contained in the Old Covenant, and continuing by direct command from Jesus in the New Covenant?

Which do you believe and on what scriptures do you base your belief?

Not everything God commanded was a law, I don't think. There are also decrees, statutes, and ordinances. When I think of law, I think of the Ten Commandments and the two great commandments. However, the Bible then goes on to define the laws.

 

[Davy]

I can lie and steal and still be righteous with God. Nothing changes in my Christian walk. Now rape and murder I cannot do because the spirit of Christ will not let me...
For an in-depth look at how to walk by the spirit...
www.carb-fat.com/walking-by-the-spirit.html

Actually, for an in-depth look at how to walk by The Spirit, the believer really needs to read and heed what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and Galatians 5.

Also, the only one born in the flesh that was 'perfect' without sin was our Lord Jesus Christ. So the Christian can... fall away if they are not paying attention to future sin they may slip up and commit. And like Apostle John said about the believer in 1 John 1:8-10, those brethren who claim they don't sin anymore make Jesus a liar.

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV

 

[marks]

My #5, though I worded it clumsily, is my understanding of the law or commands that the Christian is bound by, and we find those clearly given to us in the epistles. I find the everlasting law of God existing from creation to today and beyond, and we'd find that included in the epistles; with the exception of the two ordinances of the Lord's Supper and baptism which are for Christians. Maybe someone knows of another command of Christ given by the apostles that may be particular to the New Covenant. I'm guessing we are in some agreement on this?

Anything we are directed to do as children of God is not from the OT Law, though there may be resemblence. The OT Law and Prophets were God's covenant with Isreal, not with Christians, who count neither as Greek nor Jew.

There are two commands which are not carried over from the OT into the NT, they are exclusive to the NT, and exclusive to Christians, and these two commandments not only answer to everything in the Law, but they fully transcend the Law. These commands are to believe in Jesus, to trust Him, and to love others as Jesus loves us.

Nothing in the OT reaches that far.

Living life according to keeping Law provokes the flesh and makes our tast more difficult. Living according to trust and love is an entirely different kind of life, a much better, and more Godly kind of life.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

you hold the Wesleyan or Methodist view of Romans 7 as in the following?

No, I look at all the things God says about what believers should be after having been born agaon and becoming a new creature in Christ.

Turns out, Romans 7 is an excuse some use to keep living in sin or to otherwise lower the standard and live as though they are not born again at all.

The devil tricks people in to thinking Romans 7 is a Christian because the enemy loves to deceive people in to living in defeat and is afraid of Christians that learn they can rise up IN Christ and don't have to live in sin!

 

[Arthur81]

Actually, for an in-depth look at how to walk by The Spirit, the believer really needs to read and heed what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and Galatians 5.

Also, the only one born in the flesh that was 'perfect' without sin was our Lord Jesus Christ. So the Christian can... fall away if they are not paying attention to future sin they may slip up and commit. And like Apostle John said about the believer in 1 John 1:8-10, those brethren who claim they don't sin anymore make Jesus a liar.

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV

Looking at the vice lists, that which follows the 3rd "God gave them up" in Romans One should not be overlooked, for it shows just how such things as we don't seem to view as so serious, are here in Paul's list, as deserving of death -

"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them." (Rom 1:28-32 NRSV)

I'm strong for the KJV, but on some things such as a list like this, I find more updated wording is important. Too many seem to think the sins in Romans One stopped at v27 and ignore v28-32.

 

[Arthur81]

No, I look at all the things God says about what believers should be after having been born agaon and becoming a new creature in Christ.

Turns out, Romans 7 is an excuse some use to keep living in sin or to otherwise lower the standard and live as though they are not born again at all.

The devil tricks people in to thinking Romans 7 is a Christian because the enemy loves to deceive people in to living in defeat and is afraid of Christians that learn they can rise up IN Christ and don't have to live in sin!

So you are a believer in sinless perfection? A full and complete sanctification during one's Christian walk?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So you are a believer in sinless perfection? A full and complete sanctification during one's Christian walk?

I never said I have never sinned in the past... or that it's not possible for me to sin in the future.

But currently, I have no known sin in my life! If the Lord reveals to me that I did something wrong, I use 1 John 1:9 immediately so He can cleanse me of all unrighteousness.

And, I have put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and don't make any provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof (Romans 13:14) so I have no plans to be doing sinful things.

But, if it makes you feel better.... a while back I spilled my ice tea at dinner so that proves I'm not perfect in the literal sense like Jesus when He walked the earth.

Cause Jesus... He ain't never spilled His ice tea at dinner!

The BIGGER question is... WHY do so many Christians reject deliverance from doing sinful things and keep living as sinners, calling themselves sinners, identifying with the old man and rejecting the new man!

Maybe they don't believe Philippians 4:13 ?

WHY don't they accept the truth found in the scriptures below??? That tis the question!
All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

 

[Arthur81]

I never said I have never sinned in the past... or that it's not possible for me to sin in the future.

But currently, I have no known sin in my life! If the Lord reveals to me that I did something wrong, I use 1 John 1:9 immediately so He can cleanse me of all unrighteousness.

And, I have put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and don't make any provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof (Romans 13:14) so I have no plans to be doing sinful things.

But, if it makes you feel better.... a while back I spilled my ice tea at dinner so that proves I'm not perfect in the literal sense like Jesus when He walked the earth.

Cause Jesus... He ain't never spilled His ice tea at dinner! View attachment 39847

The BIGGER question is... WHY do so many Christians reject deliverance from doing sinful things and keep living as sinners, calling themselves sinners, identifying with the old man and rejecting the new man!

Maybe they don't believe Philippians 4:13 ?

WHY don't they accept the truth found in the scriptures below??? That tis the question!
All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

You've used one of the most misused verses in the Bible - Philippians 4:13. But read in context, the "all things" is limited to the topic Paul is speaking of -

"Not that I am referring to being in need; for I have learned to be content with whatever I have. I know what it is to have little, and I know what it is to have plenty. In any and all circumstances I have learned the secret of being well-fed and of going hungry, of having plenty and of being in need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me. In any case, it was kind of you to share my distress." (Phil 4:11-14 NRSV)

Matthew Poole -
"can do all things, we are not to understand it absolutely, but restrictively to the subject matter he had before mentioned in the precedent verses, intimating he could by the Lord’s help use well both prosperity and adversity: or, all those things the Lord called him to and put him upon. Not, as the papists urge, that any mere man since the fall is able in this life perfectly to keep the commandments of God; but that he by faith being united to Christ, by the power of his Spirit dwelling in him, hath in the Lord righteousness and strength, Isa 45:24; and thereupon hath a sincere respect to all God’s commands, as David had, Psa 119:6; so also had Zacharias and Elisabeth, Luk 1:6; in opposition to Pharisaical obedience: not by any power he had of himself, but through Christ strengthening of him, so that God would accept of his sincere performance (though not every way perfect) of what was incumbent on him."

It is shocking, just how far the so-called Bible believing evangelicals in this day have backslidden back into Roman Catholic teachings!

If you doubt this, read Martin Luther's book, "Bondage of the Will" where Luther is debating the Roman Catholic Erasmus about the will. You see that evangelicals of today are teaching the same as the Roman Catholics on the foundational topic, freedom of the will. The "Bondage of the Will" can be read online. It is truly an eye opener as to the state of the supposedly 'Bible-believing' church of today.

TrueCovenanter.com: The Bondage of the Will

"Erasmus, a Catholic Theologian...He developed a biblical humanistic theology in which he advocated tolerance, concord and free thinking on matters of indifference."

Erasmus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is shocking, just how far the so-called Bible believing evangelicals in this day have backslidden back into Roman Catholic teachings!

I can assure you that... not walking after the flesh is NOT a catholic teaching!

Too bad that so many reject being empowered by the Holy Ghost as well as rejecting the power in God's Word!

If you doubt this, read Martin Luther's book

Luther is a false teacher so I would be interested in anything he has to say seeing he is not in agreement with scripture as none of the reformers are and the catholics aren't either!.

 

[Arthur81]

To Big Boy Johnson - I see, a free lance guy on Bible doctrine. That explains a lot. It seems, according to many, that Christ giving church teachers was superfluous! If a 'believer' won't or can't identify with a confession of faith or a known denominational doctrinal stand; I lose interest in taking the time in debate. They who will not embrace a confession or denomination are like greased pigs, who you can't really tie down solidly to a real belief or doctrine, they're quite slippery!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I see, a free lance guy on Bible doctrine.

God's Word contains warnings concerning lots and lots of false doctrine in the end times.

I simply choose to NOT ignore those warnings.... Here's a few of them for your further education:

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)


1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)


Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)


Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 

[Arthur81]

That's why I don't go by what "they" teach.

The Lord is THE teacher.

So you do not need any Christian teacher of any known or published confession of faith, because you have a direct line to the Lord Jesus Christ, and you can bypass the teachers He gave to the church. That explains a lot and it seems to be the approach of far too many posting on this Forum. There is an established body of truth held in common by the universal Church of Christ, and we reject that at our peril.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

bypass the teachers He gave to the church.

The reformers... were teachers the devil sent to the church to trick people in to following false doctrine that would separate them from the Lord.

I just posted numerous warnings the Lord gives telling us... many false doctrines and false teachers are in play, so beware!

Those that don't hold fast to what God's Word teaches are the ones being deceived.

So I personally have no use for reformers and catholics that twist scripture... but others are welcome to follow whoever they so desire. We all have to do what we believe is best for us. Enjoy!