What Old Covenant Laws are the New Covenant believer to obey?

[Arthur81]

1. Everything that is not specifically annulled by name in the New Covenant?

2. All that is called "Moral" law which is the Ten Commandments PLUS what is added to the Ten such as in the Larger Westminster Catechism?

3. All the Old Covenant laws for they come from God?

4. No Old Covenant law for all was abolished and annulled?

5. Only the everlasting Law of God existing prior to the Old Covenant, which is also found contained in the Old Covenant, and continuing by direct command from Jesus in the New Covenant?

Which do you believe and on what scriptures do you base your belief?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Law of Moses has been replaced by the Law of Christ.

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!

2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

(*Notice what Paul said about his own body in 1 Corinthians 9:27)

Colossians 3:6-10
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Those that do not put on the New Man and quit walking after the flesh, the wrath of God comes upon them for their disobedience because God is NOT mocked, if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; Things end very badly for those that do not obey the gospel.

Romans 11:19-25
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Law of Christ

The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.

Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands").

Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Davy]

1. Everything that is not specifically annulled by name in the New Covenant?

2. All that is called "Moral" law which is the Ten Commandments PLUS what is added to the Ten such as in the Larger Westminster Catechism?

3. All the Old Covenant laws for they come from God?

4. No Old Covenant law for all was abolished and annulled?

5. Only the everlasting Law of God existing prior to the Old Covenant, which is also found contained in the Old Covenant, and continuing by direct command from Jesus in the New Covenant?

Which do you believe and on what scriptures do you base your belief?

Apostle Paul covered sins of the flesh written in God's law that can keep the Christian out of His future Kingdom. Paul listed them in 1 Timothy 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and Galatians 5.

 

[marks]

1. Everything that is not specifically annulled by name in the New Covenant?

2. All that is called "Moral" law which is the Ten Commandments PLUS what is added to the Ten such as in the Larger Westminster Catechism?

3. All the Old Covenant laws for they come from God?

4. No Old Covenant law for all was abolished and annulled?

5. Only the everlasting Law of God existing prior to the Old Covenant, which is also found contained in the Old Covenant, and continuing by direct command from Jesus in the New Covenant?

Which do you believe and on what scriptures do you base your belief?

If you are referring to the covenant that God made with Israel, recorded in Exodus 19,

Exodus 19:3-8 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8) And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

I would answer that to consider yourself bound to these laws given by God to Israel would be like considering yourself bound to paying off your neighbor's car.

Paul clearly expressed the Christian's relation to the Law in Romans 7:

Romans 7:1-6 KJV
1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

1. Everything that is not specifically annulled by name in the New Covenant?

2. All that is called "Moral" law which is the Ten Commandments PLUS what is added to the Ten such as in the Larger Westminster Catechism?

3. All the Old Covenant laws for they come from God?

4. No Old Covenant law for all was abolished and annulled?

5. Only the everlasting Law of God existing prior to the Old Covenant, which is also found contained in the Old Covenant, and continuing by direct command from Jesus in the New Covenant?

Which do you believe and on what scriptures do you base your belief?

Put me down for number 4. Why?

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[Jack]

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

And that ain't good!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

And that ain't good!

No, it sure isn't.

That's why I'm a New Covenant guy with Jesus!

 

[Davy]

Put me down for number 4. Why?

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

That still does not mean all of God's laws were nailed to Christ's cross. It's important to make sure brethren in Christ know that for certain, and not mislead them. Otherwise saying that all of God's laws are no longer in effect because Jesus nailed them all to His cross, is like saying that now it's OK to lie, steal, rape, murder, etc.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That still does not mean all of God's laws were nailed to Christ's cross. It's important to make sure brethren in Christ know that for certain, and not mislead them. Otherwise saying that all of God's laws are no longer in effect because Jesus nailed them all to His cross, is like saying that now it's OK to lie, steal, rape, murder, etc.

We are no longer the law of Moses...

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

In the New Testament... there is a new priesthood where Jesus is our High Priest instead of Moses and as such we are no longer under the law of Moses, but now we are under the Law of Christ.

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Those being led by the Holy Ghost will NOT be thinking it's OK to lie, steal, rape, murder, etc.

 

[Ziggy]

Deu 25:4
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

1Co 9:7
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1Co 9:8
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1Co 9:9
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Co 9:10
Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Co 9:11
If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

1Ti 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 5:18
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

What is the principle of the laws?
Paul says: If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Jos 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Psa 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Meditate on this:

Eze 20:18
But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:
Eze 20:19
I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
Eze 20:20
And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
Eze 20:21
Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
Eze 20:22
Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth.
Eze 20:23
I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
Eze 20:24
Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
Eze 20:25
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
Eze 20:26
And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Ti 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Meditate on the law. Find the spiritual application behind what is written. What is God trying to tell us?

In the law is the same principle Jesus taught:
Lev 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Mar 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Gal 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

If we do away with all the OT laws, what does that leave us?
We would have to leave out Leviticus 19:18.
We would have to say that loving thy neighbour as thyself was nailed on the cross and abolished.
Well, we know that can't be true. So there has to be something more written into the meanings of what is written in the law and not what we understand only with the carnal mind.

I believe if we allowed the land to rest every 7th year we probably wouldn't need chemical fertilizers to boost up the nutrients in the ground. It would have a chance to replenish itself.
That would be the carnal principle of that law, but what is the spiritual priciple behind it?

Another seven years:
Deu 15:1
At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.
Deu 15:2
And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release.

And again:
Jer 34:14
At the end of seven years let ye go every man his brother an Hebrew, which hath been sold unto thee; and when he hath served thee six years, thou shalt let him go free from thee: but your fathers hearkened not unto me, neither inclined their ear.

There are spiritual principles behind the laws God gave to Moses but the people were carnal and not able to hear them.
The question is... can we?

So if the Lord has called for a release of the land every seven years to let it rest, him being the creditor that lends to us the good of the land. Aught we not to also give rest to those that are under our authority that work for us?

I know today is different than it was thousands of years ago. And we don't live in the same world as yesterday.
But that doesn't mean the principles don't still apply.
How can we apply this principle in our world today?

What if this release is forgiveness?
Mat 18:21
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Luk 17:4
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Try to look beyond the veil of the carnal law and find the spiritual principle which lies within.

Psa 119:15
I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.


Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

That's a guy who is.... not a Christian.

Romans 7 man knows He needs to get right with the Lord but has not been born again yet and cannot control himself so we know he does not have the Holy Ghost since self control is one of the 9 fruit of the spirit

 

[Davy]

Deu 25:4
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

1Co 9:7
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1Co 9:8
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1Co 9:9
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Co 9:10
Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Co 9:11
If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

1Ti 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 5:18
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

What is the principle of the laws?
Paul says: If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Jos 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Psa 1:1
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Meditate on this:

Eze 20:18
But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:
Eze 20:19
I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
Eze 20:20
And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
Eze 20:21
Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
Eze 20:22
Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth.
Eze 20:23
I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
Eze 20:24
Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
Eze 20:25
Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
Eze 20:26
And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Ti 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Meditate on the law. Find the spiritual application behind what is written. What is God trying to tell us?

In the law is the same principle Jesus taught:
Lev 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Mar 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Gal 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

If we do away with all the OT laws, what does that leave us?
We would have to leave out Leviticus 19:18.
We would have to say that loving thy neighbour as thyself was nailed on the cross and abolished.
Well, we know that can't be true. So there has to be something more written into the meanings of what is written in the law and not what we understand only with the carnal mind.

I believe if we allowed the land to rest every 7th year we probably wouldn't need chemical fertilizers to boost up the nutrients in the ground. It would have a chance to replenish itself.
That would be the carnal principle of that law, but what is the spiritual priciple behind it?

Another seven years:
Deu 15:1
At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.
Deu 15:2
And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release.

And again:
Jer 34:14
At the end of seven years let ye go every man his brother an Hebrew, which hath been sold unto thee; and when he hath served thee six years, thou shalt let him go free from thee: but your fathers hearkened not unto me, neither inclined their ear.

There are spiritual principles behind the laws God gave to Moses but the people were carnal and not able to hear them.
The question is... can we?

So if the Lord has called for a release of the land every seven years to let it rest, him being the creditor that lends to us the good of the land. Aught we not to also give rest to those that are under our authority that work for us?

I know today is different than it was thousands of years ago. And we don't live in the same world as yesterday.
But that doesn't mean the principles don't still apply.
How can we apply this principle in our world today?

What if this release is forgiveness?
Mat 18:21
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Luk 17:4
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Try to look beyond the veil of the carnal law and find the spiritual principle which lies within.

Psa 119:15
I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.


Hugs

Most excellent!

My ancestors came to the American colonies as indentured servants. That means they were to work for the company that paid their passage from Britain for a period of SEVEN YEARS, and then be freed from the debt.

So really, it hasn't been that long ago when Christian Society in Europe and the Americas followed many of God's laws written in The Old Testament.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So really, it hasn't been that long ago when Christian Society in Europe and the Americas followed many of God's laws written in The Old Testament.

Well, Jesus took the old testament away and established the New Testament.

If they were still following the old testament then they weren't born again Christians following Jesus.

 

[Ziggy]

That's a guy who is.... not a Christian.

Romans 7 man knows He needs to get right with the Lord but has not been born again yet and cannot control himself so we know he does not have the Holy Ghost since self control is one of the 9 fruit of the spirit

Just because one is born again doesn't mean he understands the spiritual principles in God's laws.
You have to study and listen and learn.
Being born again allows one to look beyond the veil and see the spiritual application of the law.
It is the Holy Spirit within us that makes this possible.
A carnally minded man cannot see beyond what is written on paper. A spiritually minded man can see what is written in the heart.

I believe the law God gave to Moses came from God's heart. It is up to us to discern the meaning.
But we cannot discern without the Holy Spirit which opens our understanding.
It is not God's laws that are flawed, it is man's understanding that is flawed.

Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I believe the law God gave to Moses came from God's heart.

And... Jesus took that away and brought forth the Law of Christ which is what New Testament believers (Christians) live under

Once cannot be saved following the old testament laws.

You'll figure that out on of these days... one way, or the other!

 

[Ziggy]

Well, Jesus took the old testament away and established the New Testament.

If they were still following the old testament then they weren't born again Christians following Jesus.

Yes the old testament, or covenant, or agreement between God and Israel was changed.
Following Jesus means to come out from under the carnally minded laws and walk in the spiritual principles of God's laws.

Regarding sacrificial lambs... we are the sheep that give our lives to God.
Rom 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Under the old covenant they slaughtered something other than themselves to sacrifice for their own sins.
In the new covenant we are to lay down our old man and die to our old ways, rise up and walk in the newness of life.

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We are the sheep and the oxen and the doves and whatever else they substituted to sacrifice for their own sins.
But those animals could not free them from sin. Only death of the sinner can open the door to life.
And this death is portrayed in the act of baptism in Romans 6:4

Consider the sacrifice. An animal is taken and killed and washed and put in the fire.

God chooses people and they willingly die to the old self, are baptised,and are given the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Mar 9:49
For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Mar 9:50
Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

The problem with the old covenant is they took the law and applied to others rather than self.
Mat 7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I understand what you are saying. I hear you.
But there is a much deeper meaning than what we are taught to believe.
Open your own mind and search the scrptures. The scriptures that the Apostles taught from is the Old testament.
But with new understanding.
Don't be hard hearted and closed minded. Listen with your heart.
Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But there is a much deeper meaning than what we are taught to believe.

That's why I don't go by what "they" teach.

The Lord is THE teacher.

 

[Ziggy]

And... Jesus took that away and brought forth the Law of Christ which is what New Testament believers (Christians) live under

Once cannot be saved following the old testament laws.

You'll figure that out on of these days... one way, or the other!

I'm not arguing with you here.
We cannot follow the old law as written and as was given to a carnal people.
Because the way they understood the law only led to death because they didn't apply it to themselves.
They couldn't hear the spiritual message.
So we are not to follow the law as they understood it.
But now we have a new spiritual understanding of the principles that God gave them.
And it is the Law of Christ that they could not hear. They did not understand.
There is no difference between the law God gave Israel and the Law of Christ by which we live.
The only difference is in the way we discern the meaning of them.
Metaphors.

You keep going the way your going your going to fall off a cliff.

Is it a literal cliff I'm talking about? no of course not. But the OT is taken literally, even though we know now it is meant metaphorically.
Or in the case of the NT it is meant spiritually.

I hear you, I'm not against what you are saying.
It is the application that is flawed not the law itself.
Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You keep going the way your going your going to fall off a cliff.

No, I'm on God's Word... He upholds ALL things by the Word of His power so I won't be going of any cliffs in to darkness

I'll stick with the New Testament... but thanks for thinking of me!