What or who is the 8th king?

[Marty fox]

Because the Day of the Lord when not used with specific modifiers, always refer to teh 7 year tribulation.

1.We know the antichrist signs a 7 year covenant with Israel.
2. He has to be in a position of political and military power in order to make it strong as Daniel says.
3. Matt. 24 tells us world wars, and devastation on earth happen as the beginning of labor
4. the natural outcome of antichrist going ot war is death, famine and pestilence. we are already beginning ot see these now!
5. After the sixth seal is opened the kings of the earth make a cry:

REV> 6:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

They declare the day of the Lords wrath has arrived! These events also fulfill Joel :

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

God said the sun and moon BEFORE not during the Day of the Lord.

all these events fit with the rise of the antoichrist to be able to make a covenant and enforce it, and the seals occurring before th e Trib happens. Another stron implication is that with the opening of the seals we see events on earth alone, but with the trumpets and bowls we see these being poured out directly from heaven.

The term 7 year tribulation doesn't exist in the bible

Those things also happened in the first century and Jesus even referred to it.

Luke 23:23-30
26 As the soldiers led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus. 27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then

“‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!”’

 

[Marty fox]

The Lord Will Destroy Literal Humans, Upon A Literal Earth, The Question Has Been Answered.

That seen below, is the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ, that results in the end of this world, all in "Parallel Teachings" of the same future event.

Revelation 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 19:19-21KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20:7-9KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I agree that Peter and rev 20 & 21 is the second coming but not rev 16 & 19 but that didn't answer the question here it is again

If know one knows when Jesus will come back then how come the beast is waiting for Him with the false prophet and his armies?

 

[Waiting on him]

Revelation 17:9-11
9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

So what or who is the 8th king?

Some people see the seven kings as empires and some see them as people who are kings. I see the beast out of the sea as a demon influencing Rome and its leaders in the first century and the seven 7 kings were the first seven Caesars.

If the 8th king is just a person or an empire then how does this 8th king make sense?

How could an empire or person be "once was and now is not"?

How could an empire or person be the 8th king but belong to the seven?

I think that only a demon could fit these descriptions but I also think that there is more to the meaning of the 8th king.

Antoichus Epiphanies was going to be the 11th king but three were uprooted before him and he became the 8th king. Antiochus ravaged Jerusalem and desecrated the temple and stopped the daily sacrifices. Antiochus was also defeating the Jews until the Maccabees revolted against him and took back the city and rededicated the temple and sacrifices. Antiochus was eventually struck down by God.

I think that the meaning of the 8th king in Revelation was also a message to the Jews that a soon coming persecution (the events of 70AD) was coming to Jerusalem but this time there would be no Judas the hammer Maccabees to save them. I think that this demonic beast was eventually defeated and judged as was Rome but not until Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jewish leadership at that time and the temple age were destroyed forever.

Revelation 19:16 KJV
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree that Peter and rev 20 & 21 is the second coming but not rev 16 & 19 but that didn't answer the question here it is again

If know one knows when Jesus will come back then how come the beast is waiting for Him with the false prophet and his armies?

Nothing even hints Revelation 19:19 below, that (The Beast) knows the (Day/Hour) of the Second Coming as you suggest

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The beast being gathered with armies dosent event hint that this evil man knows the (Day/Hour) of the Second Coming

Revelation 19:19KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[Marty fox]

Nothing even hints Revelation 19:19 below, that (The Beast) knows the (Day/Hour) of the Second Coming as you suggest

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Revelation 19:19KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

The verse that you quoted says that the beast is gathered to make war against Jesus

How does he literally gather if know one knows when Jesus will come back?

Obviously its not a literal battle

 

[Marty fox]

Revelation 19:16 KJV
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

???

 

[Waiting on him]

???

Israel had Kings.

 

[Truth7t7]

The verse that you quoted says that the beast is gathered to make war against Jesus

How does he literally gather if know one knows when Jesus will come back?

Obviously its not a literal battle

Marty the Nations of the world will be gathered to Israel/Jerusalem, it's my opinion they are gathered to literally kill the (Two Witnesses) that have tormented the world with literal plagues, when the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven, the end of this world will begin to unfold, Revelation 11:3-19

At the second coming Jesus Christ will return in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus’s kingdom,

S

The verse that you quoted says that the beast is gathered to make war against Jesus

How does he literally gather if know one knows when Jesus will come back?

Obviously its not a literal battle

i love it when you ask the simple questions, that they can’t answer with their orthodoxy and false doctrine.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty the Nations of the world will be gathered to Israel/Jerusalem, it's my opinion they are gathered to literally kill the (Two Witnesses) that have tormented the world with literal plagues, when the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven, the end of this world will begin to unfold, Revelation 11:3-19

At the second coming Jesus Christ will return in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire

Yes he will but that still doesn't answer the question

 

[Marty fox]

Jesus’s kingdom,

S

i love it when you ask the simple questions, that they can’t answer with their orthodoxy and false doctrine.

Yes its a simply question that no one has answered yet

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes its a simply question that no one has answered yet

Do you know that Jesus nearly 2k years ago caused the oblation and the sacrifice to cease?

The vision Daniel saw made him so literally sick that he had to get in his bed.

 

[Marty fox]

Do you know that Jesus nearly 2k years ago caused the oblation and the sacrifice to cease?

The vision Daniel saw made him so literally sick that he had to get in his bed.

Yes I am

 

[Stumpmaster]

Jesus’s kingdom,

i love it when you ask the simple questions, that they can’t answer with their orthodoxy and false doctrine.

Hi Waiting on him. Your username is ironic since you give no answer yourself, but here it is for both you an old Marty.

Context is everything.

There is nothing false about the context of this verse which shows Christ having returned before the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gather.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Here is the sequence:

• Christ returns with the armies of heaven (Rev 19:11-18)
• His enemies gather to make war against Him (Rev 19:19)

Quote from Believer's Bible Commentary:

19:11 Finally we reach the event to which the rest of the book has been looking forward, the glorious coming of Christ to earth in order to put down His enemies and set up His kingdom. This is not the Rapture of the church; there Christ comes to the air for His saints. Here He comes to the earth with His saints.
Notice the description of our Lord. He is sitting on a white horse; here obviously it is a war horse since He is coming to conquer His enemies. His name is Faithful and True. He is faithful to His promises and true to His own character. In righteousness He judges and makes war. He can only rule over a kingdom where the people are willing to live under a reign of righteousness. Therefore He must first remove all things that offend.
19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, suggesting the penetrating power of His judgment. He can detect all rebellion and unbelief. On His head are many diadems. Others may wear the crown of victory, but only the Lord Jesus is spoken of as wearing the diadem of royalty. He has a name inscribed which no one knows except Himself. There are mysteries connected with the Person of Christ that no created being will ever be able to comprehend.
19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, not the blood He shed on Calvary's cross, but the blood of His enemies whom He tramples in the winepress of the wrath of God. He is called by the name, “The Word of God.” A word is a means of expressing thought. In Christ, God has fully expressed Himself to man.
19:14 He is accompanied by the armies of heaven, which are clothed in fine linen and riding on white horses. These armies are no doubt made up of the saints, but it is noteworthy that they are not required to fight. The Lord Jesus defeats His foes unaided.
19:15 From His mouth issues a sharp sword with which He strikes the nations. He comes to rule them with a rod of iron and to tread the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 On His robe and on His thigh is written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
Our Jesus is the Supreme Ruler; all others must submit to His reign.
19:17, 18 The great supper of God (NKJV margin) is the destruction of God's remaining foes before the kingdom is set up. The vultures are summoned to attend! They will feed on the carcasses of those who are slain by the Lord—people from every class of society, both small and great.
19:19, 20 In a desperate attempt to prevent Christ from taking the reins of government (Ps. 2), the beast allies with the armies of the world to make war against the Lord and against His army. But it is a futile attempt. Both the beast and the false prophet are captured and hurled alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
19:21 The rest of the rebels are killed with the sword of the Lord, their bodies providing ample carrion for the vultures. The sword is an allusion to the word of God (see Eph_6:17; 2Th_2:8; Heb_4:12; Rev_1:16; Rev_2:12, Rev_2:16).
This brings us to the end of the Great Tribulation.

 

[Marty fox]

Hi Waiting on him. Your username is ironic since you give no answer yourself, but here it is for both you an old Marty.

Context is everything.

There is nothing false about the context of this verse which shows Christ having returned before the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gather.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Here is the sequence:

• Christ returns with the armies of heaven (Rev 19:11-18)
• His enemies gather to make war against Him (Rev 19:19)

Quote from Believer's Bible Commentary:

19:11 Finally we reach the event to which the rest of the book has been looking forward, the glorious coming of Christ to earth in order to put down His enemies and set up His kingdom. This is not the Rapture of the church; there Christ comes to the air for His saints. Here He comes to the earth with His saints.
Notice the description of our Lord. He is sitting on a white horse; here obviously it is a war horse since He is coming to conquer His enemies. His name is Faithful and True. He is faithful to His promises and true to His own character. In righteousness He judges and makes war. He can only rule over a kingdom where the people are willing to live under a reign of righteousness. Therefore He must first remove all things that offend.
19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, suggesting the penetrating power of His judgment. He can detect all rebellion and unbelief. On His head are many diadems. Others may wear the crown of victory, but only the Lord Jesus is spoken of as wearing the diadem of royalty. He has a name inscribed which no one knows except Himself. There are mysteries connected with the Person of Christ that no created being will ever be able to comprehend.
19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, not the blood He shed on Calvary's cross, but the blood of His enemies whom He tramples in the winepress of the wrath of God. He is called by the name, “The Word of God.” A word is a means of expressing thought. In Christ, God has fully expressed Himself to man.
19:14 He is accompanied by the armies of heaven, which are clothed in fine linen and riding on white horses. These armies are no doubt made up of the saints, but it is noteworthy that they are not required to fight. The Lord Jesus defeats His foes unaided.
19:15 From His mouth issues a sharp sword with which He strikes the nations. He comes to rule them with a rod of iron and to tread the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 On His robe and on His thigh is written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
Our Jesus is the Supreme Ruler; all others must submit to His reign.
19:17, 18 The great supper of God (NKJV margin) is the destruction of God's remaining foes before the kingdom is set up. The vultures are summoned to attend! They will feed on the carcasses of those who are slain by the Lord—people from every class of society, both small and great.
19:19, 20 In a desperate attempt to prevent Christ from taking the reins of government (Ps. 2), the beast allies with the armies of the world to make war against the Lord and against His army. But it is a futile attempt. Both the beast and the false prophet are captured and hurled alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
19:21 The rest of the rebels are killed with the sword of the Lord, their bodies providing ample carrion for the vultures. The sword is an allusion to the word of God (see Eph_6:17; 2Th_2:8; Heb_4:12; Rev_1:16; Rev_2:12, Rev_2:16).
This brings us to the end of the Great Tribulation.

How long do you think it takes Jesus to return?

So you think that the beast sees where Jesus is returning to and then has time to gather all of his armies to go to where Jesus returns to fight Him? Even the beast if literal wouldn’t do that even if he could because he would know his soon to be future of what was written in Revelation chapter 19

We need to all look at this logically and then see that it is all symbolic for Jesus word (the sword of His mouth) defeating all of His enemies because His word is all powerful and all that He needs.

Jesus has the only weapon and is the only one described as fighting

John only sees what’s happening in heaven as there is no mention of Jesus or His army coming down to the earth.

The beast army would be from the past as they are mentioned as being on horses

Most Christians believe that Jesus and his saints reign over the non believing nations for 1000 years after this but who is there to reign over because verse 18 states that all people are eaten by the birds.

You see only the symbolic view actually makes sense

 

[Stumpmaster]

You see only the symbolic view actually makes sense

Symbolism that has no application in reality is pointless. Either we believe the written Word of God or we don't.
My experience is that natural and supernatural reality overlap, and Scripture reveals this from the first word of Genesis to the last word of Revelation.

Some folk don't do too well with visions and the metaphors they employ to carry the meaning of their message across, but anyone can access good material to help them.

There is no question that symbolism is involved in Scripture since ALL communication is symbolic, whether by the shapes of letters or the sounds of the words they make when put together.

Symbolism. imagery, spiritual and physical parallels; they exist in every facet of life so when we read in the Bible of a vision that describes a beast we can expect its characteristics to manifest in the course of events according to prophecy without a literal animal being invoved.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes he will but that still doesn't answer the question

The question has been answered, you might disagree

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes its a simply question that no one has answered yet

Your question has been answered, you dont like the answer

 

[ReChoired]

Hullo Rechoired.

I suggest you brush up on your OT history. Assyria figures prominently in between Egypt and Babylon.

• Prophesied: (about 742BC)

Isa 7:17 The LORD will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father's house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah."

• Fulfilled: (from about 740BC)

2Ki 17:6 In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria and carried Israel away to Assyria, and placed them in Halah and by the Habor, the River of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

Assyrian captivity - Wikipedia.

Read what I said. Did Assyria control Judah, Benjamin and thus the capital Jerusalem? No.

 

[Marty fox]

The question has been answered, you might disagree

Symbolism that has no application in reality is pointless. Either we believe the written Word of God or we don't.
My experience is that natural and supernatural reality overlap, and Scripture reveals this from the first word of Genesis to the last word of Revelation.

Some folk don't do too well with visions and the metaphors they employ to carry the meaning of their message across, but anyone can access good material to help them.

There is no question that symbolism is involved in Scripture since ALL communication is symbolic, whether by the shapes of letters or the sounds of the words they make when put together.

Symbolism. imagery, spiritual and physical parallels; they exist in every facet of life so when we read in the Bible of a vision that describes a beast we can expect its characteristics to manifest in the course of events according to prophecy without a literal animal being invoved.

Then who gets ruled over if the birds have eaten all people?

This has to be a symbolic description