What OSAS Rejects

[Robert Gwin]

OSAS....

if this is understood, then it means "eternal security"... but the cult of OSAS, teaches OSAS as this LIE = "you are saying that because you are saved, you can live like the Devil and there is no consequence"..

So, if we look at "eternal security", then that is simply.... "God who started salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it".

Philippians 1:6

or, "God who saved you through the Cross of Christ, always keeps you saved through the Cross of Christ''.

I think the guy that posted it knows what he meant, don't you sir? If you have no respect for Rob or for me, then why get into the conversation?

 

[Robert Gwin]

OSAS is clearly a false doctrine. It means that once you are saved, you cannot become unsaved (You are: Once Saved Always Saved). So in OSAS: sin cannot separate you from God. Being unfruitful cannot separate you from God. Some preachers (like Charles Stanley) will go so far as to say that a later unbelief in God and or later rejection of Christ cannot make you unsaved even (as long as you had an initial genuine point of salvation with Jesus).

There are Hyper Grace OSAS Folk: These types will say that you practice murder, rape, commit theft, idolatry, and still be saved. I have talked with these types before and they are scary. George Sodini is one such popular Hyper Gracer who murdered some people and took his own life thinking he was saved by a belief alone in Jesus as His Savior (without works).

There are Partial Hyper Grace OSAS Folk: These types will say you cannot practice murder, rape, theft, etcetera or you were never born again to begin with. But then they double-speak and say that they are either sinners (present tense) saved by grace or they believe 1 John 1:8 is saying that they will always sin this side of Heaven. Many in this camp will say that a believer backsliding into a life of sin are saved (Which again is contradictory). Many will say in this camp that suicide is not a sin that leads to hell for a believer. So they don't have a consistent standard of morality. Generally, they also never admit what kind of sins they can commit on occasion as being a slave to their sin this side of heaven, either. Some believe confession of sin is necessary and others do not believe it is necessary.

Then there is the Free Will Baptist crowd who deny OSAS and yet they believe you can sin and still be saved. Free Will Baptists believe that going back to the state of unbelief is the only thing that can cause you to lose your salvation. Some like poster “Behold” are a mystery or oddity to the norm. They are against OSAS and yet they are against doing good as a part of God's plan of salvation. So his belief appears to be similar to Free Will Baptists (But it may be slightly different).

Yes sir, Rob who posted that cleared it up, and I and he as well agrees with you, salvation can be lost, it is not guaranteed, nor is it a license to sin.

 

[Behold]

Even those I have talked with who appear to be for holy living in the OSAS camp turn around and double speak that they are sinners (present tense) saved by God's grace and or they admit that 1 John 1:8 is a banner flag in that they will always sin this side of Heaven.

You are making that up.

Here is the thing. A person who understands Salvation, knows that Jesus is their Salvation., and not their self effort.
A person who does not understand this, teaches what you teach. A Salvation Theology, that Has No Cross of Christ in it.
But you are welcome to post a few of those in your next few posts if you like, as that would be something NEW for you to try next, Bible Highlighter.

 

[Behold]

Baptists tend to believe in OSAS.

OSAS is a cult that redefined the Grace of God, as "License to Sin".
So, no real Baptist and no real Christian would be caught DEAD teaching the lie you just told., Bible Hightligher.

 

[Behold]

salvation can be lost,

Jesus is Salvation.
You can't lose Him.
You should learn more about that, before you die one day and meet Your Maker.

 

[Behold]

I think the guy that posted it knows what he meant, don't you sir? If you have no respect for Rob or for me, then why get into the conversation?

I dont know you 2 personally, but i do know your theology, , as i have read a lot of it, as both of you have posted a lot of it on my Threads.
So, i do not "respect', Cross Denying, Grace Hating, Theology, that you both teach.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus is Salvation.
You can't lose Him.
You should learn more about that, before you die one day and meet Your Maker.

Did you know that Jesus' name is really Joshua Be? Were you aware then that his name actually means Jehovah is salvation? The truth is however salvation for an individual is receiving the gift of everlasting life, what do you actually think salvation is sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I dont know you 2 personally, but i do know your theology, , as i have read a lot of it, as both of you have posted a lot of it on my Threads.
So, i do not "respect', Cross Denying, Grace Hating, Theology, that you both teach.

The Bible states very clearly Jesus died on a Stauros, you said cross. We believe Jehovah is the greatest God of Kindness, so you are simply ignorant of our teachings on that sir. And of course teachings boil down to the main identification of the faith, that is the most identifiable fruit of identification. I actually find it strange you would make these false accusations as everything we speak is in writing for all to see.

 

[Behold]

Did you know that Jesus' name is really Joshua Be? Were you aware then that his name actually means Jehovah is salvation? The truth is however salvation for an individual is receiving the gift of everlasting life, what do you actually think salvation is sir?

Another of Jesus's Names is "Emmanuel", or God with us, or "God come down from Heaven".


Salvation is JESUS.
Eternal Life is Jesus
The Bread of Life is Jesus.

If you have Jesus in you, then you are born again, so you have both Salvation and Eternal Life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Even those I have talked with who appear to be for holy living in the OSAS camp turn around and double speak that they are sinners (present tense) saved by God's grace and or they admit that 1 John 1:8 is a banner flag in that they will always sin this side of Heaven.

You are making that up.

No. I am not. I have been discussing with different types of Belief Alone Salvationists for over 10 years now and I know their tactics.

If you were to do your own honest and unbiased investigation (by listening to others), you will discover that there are two different types of Belief Alone Salvationists.

#1. Hyper Grace.
#2. Partial Hyper Grace.

I used to think there was a third group who truly believed you had to live holy for eternal security or their version of Belief Alone salvation to be true, but I have abandoned this viewpoint because they believe in some instances that sin which God’s Word attaches with warnings of hellfire or condemnation does not separate the believer from God. Many believers today think suicide is not a sin that can condemn you.. Many believers think that going prodigal into a lifestyle of sin temporarily does not mean you lose your salvation. Other believers take 1 John 1:8 as meaning that we will always sin this side of Heaven. If we say we have no sin in our lives on some level then we are deceiving ourselves (According to them). If you need quotes I can provide them for you. Both from popular preachers and from regular Christian online posters that I have talked with over the years.

But you have to listen really carefully to everything they say.

Granted, there are groups that I can understand in not wanting to have any dealings with like JW’s or Mormons (Whereby there is no real point in listening to them); For we know those religions are obviously false (Because they don’t accept the Bible alone as their sole authority). But to figure out what other Bible Alone Christians believe (Who disagree with you) involves real detective work and it is a skill that involves one to really listen to what another says.

Here is the thing. A person who understands Salvation, knows that Jesus is their Salvation., and not their self effort.
A person who does not understand this, teaches what you teach. A Salvation Theology, that Has No Cross of Christ in it.
But you are welcome to post a few of those in your next few posts if you like, as that would be something NEW for you to try next, Bible Highlighter.

Sin is the breaking of God’s commands (1 John 3:4). There are commands that are passive (like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet), and commands that are pro-active (Liking loving God, and loving your neighbor - like helping the poor, helping the brethren, and preaching the gospel, and preaching the Word, etc). So you are saying no self effort is involved in our salvation? Do you take this to mean that there is no effort involved in a believer trying to resist against any kind of sin? Have you never sinned since being a believer? Have you never struggled with sin since being a believer? Are you still saved if you are in sin?

James 1:12
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.”

Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”

Philippians 2:12
“work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

2 Corinthians 7:1
“let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

1 Corinthians 9:27
“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OSAS is a cult that redefined the Grace of God, as "License to Sin".
So, no real Baptist and no real Christian would be caught DEAD teaching the lie you just told., Bible Hightligher.

Sorry. This is not true.

While I do not really need a quote from a Baptist website to confirm my extensive research I have already gathered myself over the many years, I have included an actual quote from an actual Baptist website that admits by their own mouths of them saying that most of their own Baptist groups believe in Eternal Security. Granted, this is not the Hyper Grace version (if you actually know what that means). It is the Partial Hyper Grace version that speaks out of two sides of their mouth.

Baptist Messenger (A Baptist website) says, I quote:

“Most Baptists have held to what is called the doctrine of “eternal security” or “once saved always saved.” Historically, it has been referred to as the “perseverance of the saints.”​

“Assurance of salvation begins with God’s promise in the Scriptures (John 5:24; 10:28; 1 John 5:13). Perseverance of the saints speaks to a continuing faith throughout the Christian life. How then can someone know that he or she is and will remain a Christian?

First, there is the promise of God. Second, there is the demonstration of the Christian Faith throughout his or her life until the end.

“All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by his Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end . . . yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.” (BF&M Article V) Therefore, those who have fallen away from the faith were never Christians in the first place.

Assurance of salvation begins with God. The Bible states that we are “kept” or “guarded” (1 Peter 1:5) by God, but He does this by His power through our faith.

When we receive salvation, Paul states that we are “in Christ” (Rom 8:1). Once we are “in Christ” we begin a life of “abiding in Christ” (John 15:4).

Assurance of salvation is experienced by living out a life of faith, the Christian life (Gal 2:20; Eph. 3:17). Heb. 3:14 states, “For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.”

Jesus asserts, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine” (John 8:31). Paul exhorts us that, “If you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the Gospel that you have heard…” (Col. 1:22-23; Rom. 8:31-39).

The Christian life means becoming more and more like Christ, being renewed in the “image of Christ,” or being progressively sanctified. One of the most important ways to describe this life is “holiness”(Heb. 12:14; 1 Peter 1:15).

Holiness is both being “set apart” by and for God and being made morally and spiritually pure or as the BF&M describes “mature” (BF&M IV. C.). It is a life of growing spiritual maturity, more like Christ and more free from sin and its power (Rom. 6:11-18).

A major calling in the Christian life is to be and to make disciples, and that requires a radical change in people’s lives (Matt. 28:18-20; Luke 9:23). Yet we still go to the grave with the vestiges of sin in our lives, unfinished (Col. 3:10; 2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3: 10-14).

Assurance of salvation and the Christian life then are related to one another. We have received God’s promise, and we are experiencing His transforming power in our lives.”​

Article Source:
https://www.baptistmessenger.com/baptist-beliefs-assurance-of-salvation-and-the-christian-life/
(Important Note: I do not endorse this above quoted words in blue found in this article because I disagree strongly with Eternal Security)

Anyways, in this article quote, this Baptist group makes it appear like they are for holy living in order for eternal security to be true. But this is merely a cloak of deception if you keep listening to everything that they say. In this other article they imply that believers can walk away from the Lord. Yet, they believe in Eternal Security. This implies that the person who has walked away from the Lord temporarily is still saved (and this is turning God’s grace into a license to sin).

See their article here where they say that a believer can experience period of not walking with the Lord.
https://www.baptistmessenger.com/perspective-our-chief-business/

Just read this article by Gotquestions.

Is a backsliding Christian still saved? | GotQuestions.org

They are a perfect example of speaking out of the two sides of their mouth.
On one hand, they say a believer is marked by living holy, and yet they also double speak and say that a backslidden Christian is saved.
Meaning, if a believer is temporarily backslidden into a lifestyle of sin, they are still saved according to them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OSAS is a cult that redefined the Grace of God, as "License to Sin".
So, no real Baptist and no real Christian would be caught DEAD teaching the lie you just told., Bible Hightligher.

Free Will Baptists are the only baptists I know of that reject OSAS or Eternal Security. But yet, Free Will Baptists believe you can sin and still be saved on some level so as to be saved. I know this because I actually talked with several different Free Will Baptists online before.

Free Will Baptists believe the only way to lose your salvation is to stop believing in Jesus or to reject Jesus after having been saved previously. This is how they explain all the verses on falling away. They see it as solely as a belief in Jesus that keeps you in the Kingdom and not in anything you do (like even staying away from sin).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus is Salvation.
You can't lose Him.
You should learn more about that, before you die one day and meet Your Maker.

So you cannot lose Jesus or your salvation if you sin?

 

[Behold]

No. I am not. I have been discussing with different types of Belief Alone ”

Are you really not smart enough to realize that "FAITH" is "belief alone"?
Are you really not smart enough to understand that "faith without works"...>"justfied by faith"......And "Abraham BELIEVED GOD< (FAITH) and it was counted to him as RIGHTEOUSNESS".......is "FAITH" Alone".

You keep trying to add WORKS to FAITH, because your understanding Of the Cross of Christ is nowhere to be found, and that is why you dont ever post about the Cross, unless i point this out, about you.

 

[Behold]

Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”

Philippians 2:12
“work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

2 Corinthians 7:1
“let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

1 Corinthians 9:27
“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Look at what you just posted.
This is your Theology of Salvation.
Look at the verses.....There is NO CHRIST in it. No CROSS IN it. No FAITH In it.

All you post, is works and self effort., and that is the DEVIL's GOSPEL. = "the GOSPEL OF WORKS".
And that is your Gospel, Bible HighLigher.
There is NO JESUS IN IT....There is Just YOU talking about "striving" and "works'.

That is : Galatians 1:8

 

[Behold]

Sorry. This is not true.

While I do not really need a quote from a Baptist website to confirm my extensive research I have already gathered myself over the many years.

Still cutting and pasting long useless posts that you didn't actually write.
I guess you have to do it, or you'd have nothing to "say", Bible Hightligter.

Here is the reality..

JUDE........(New Testament) says that some evil self righteous people, teachers, Pharisees came into the Local Assemblies .....and created the Faith subverting idea that when Grace is taught correctly, its "licentiousness"..
Today that word has become this phrase. "license to sin".

 

[Behold]

On one hand, they say a believer is marked by living holy, and yet they also double speak and say that a backslidden Christian is saved.
.

Is there a real difference between someone who is "confessing and repenting of their sin" for 20 or 30 yrs, and a BACKSLIDER?

So, you confess your sin, and here is the reality.... when you are committing it, you are BACKSLIDDEN.

See, you know very little about real Christianity according to your posts.
You know nothing about Pauline Theology, as i teach it, and i can assure you that you are clueless regarding Paul's "Justification" Doctrine.
What you enjoy doing is letting us hear all about what you've studied.
You like to post about that, a lot.
You can write epic theological failures that keep trying to prove that you trust in Works to keep you saved, and you do NOT trust in Christ to keep you saved.

Listen fella, you have proven this to us.
You dont have to keep trying to prove that your Gospel is all about WORKS, and more works.
We hear you.
Believe it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you really not smart enough to realize that "FAITH" is "belief alone"?

And yet you provide no actual Scriptural references except an allusion to Romans 4.

Are you really not smart enough to understand that "faith without works"...>"justfied by faith"......And "Abraham BELIEVED GOD< (FAITH) and it was counted to him as RIGHTEOUSNESS".......is "FAITH" Alone".

We are first saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
But God also has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit, too (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Romans 4 is dealing with our Initial Salvation of being saved by God’s grace. This is because Paul was fighting against the heresy of which I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This was the false belief that said you had to first be circumcised to be initially saved. See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 2:3, Romans 3:1. It’s why Paul brought up circumcision in Romans 4:9-12. Paul’s whole point was that we are first saved by God’s grace and not circumcision (a work). While we Christians are not under the command of circumcision given to Abraham and to Moses. But at that time, circumcision was required by them. If they were not circumcised, they would have broken God’s covenant and been cut off (See: Genesis 17:14).

You keep trying to add WORKS to FAITH,

Because works makes one’s faith perfect (James 2:22).
Because faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
Because we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
Because works of faith is simply a part of your faith.

because your understanding Of the Cross of Christ is nowhere to be found, and that is why you dont ever post about the Cross, unless i point this out, about you.

Your thoughts are not Scripture.

 

[Behold]

So you cannot lose Jesus or your salvation if you sin?

"Jesus" is in spiritual Union with the Born again Spirit, in ever Believer.

There is no 'losing that".

Listen carefully.
God, CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT, are in Spiritual UNION< with a born again believer's SPIRIT.

God is A Spirit, and the born again are "ONE WITH GOD" = Spiritual UNION.

So, if a born again person went to hell, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, will go to Hell with them.
You think that will or can happen, BibleHighlighter?
Guess AGAIN.
Keep Guessing, as its your theology, according to your posts.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"Jesus" is in spiritual Union with the Born again Spirit, in ever Believer.

There is no 'losing that".

Listen carefully.
God, CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT, are in Spiritual UNION< with a born again believer's SPIRIT.

God is A Spirit, and the born again are "ONE WITH GOD" = Spiritual UNION.

So, if a born again person went to hell, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, will go to Hell with them.
You think that will or can happen, BibleHighlighter?
Guess AGAIN.
Keep Guessing, as its your theology, according to your posts.

So that means you believe you can sin and still be saved then.