What the Word says about the Rapture

[michaelvpardo]

When I was a newborn in Christ, I really loved the idea of being raptured away by God prior to the events of the Great tribulation, but over the years, the Teacher has been showing me verses which led me to doubt the doctrine as it was taught to me. 1st Thessalonians definitely foretells the event referred to as the Rapture, so I believe in it, but a few nights ago the Lord showed me something from the book of the Revelation, which I'd read many times before, but never quite got.
Verses 4 through 6 of chapter 20 describe those who will live and reign with Christ during the millenial kingdom and identifies them as those who have taken part in the first resurrection (also known as the resurrection of the Just.) The second resurrection (of the rest of the dead) doesn't occur until the end of the millenial reign and the battle of Armageddon.
1st Thessalonians chapter 4, in verses 13 through 17 describe the event referred to as the rapture and identify the timing as immediately following the raising up of the dead in Christ. Since there are only 2 resurrections, this resurrection spoken of by the Apostle Paul is also the first resurrection (or resurrection of the just).
Now, according to the book of the Revelation the first resurrection happens after (or coincides with) the return of Christ in victory over the anti-christ. Those servants of God who have been justified through faith in Christ (both before His birth and after) that are to be rewarded with thrones during the millenial kingdom are described to include those who were beheaded for their testimony, did not receive the mark of the beast, and did not worship the beast nor his image (Rev.20:4).
You could try to make a case for these "tribulation" saints being Jews or others saved after the rapture, but then you have 3 resurrections and 2 churches. Furthermore, chapter 7 of the book of the Revelation, which describes the 144,000 saints from the tribes of Israel, also describes a "great multitude which no one could number" of all nations, tribes, and tongues who are also dressed in white robes and worshipping the lamb. This great multitude is further identified in the latter part of the chapter as those who have come out of the great tribulation and have washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb. These same also are described as standing before the throne of God, serving Him night and day. We don't need to invent some other gospel through which these are saved, as they are identified as having received the sacrifice of our Savior's blood.
As I said before, I'd read these verses many time without making the connection (although the rapture doctrine as I was taught it, tended to confuse the issue.) I firmly believe that God reveals those things that we need to know and understand, when we need to know them. The days are short indeed. Hallelujah and Amen.

 

[Surf Rider]

you are correct. And 1 Thess. states that the antichrist must FIRST come and be fully revealed by what he does, BEFORE Christ can come the second time.

But who cares, really?

Why do I ask that?

Simply because believers will not believe these truths, preferring to believe their own doctrines. This is done in everything, such as women teaching, divorce/remarriage, homosexual "Christians", etc.. One can apparently "believe" in Jesus, yet still call Him a liar.

Whatever turns their crank.

God will indeed judge for the wickedness espoused by the "saved'.

"With their mouths they profess Him, but with their actions they deny Him."

"..And they both fall into the pit..."

"After the second admonition, avoid such, knowing that they are warped, deceived...."

Start practicing that, too, and you won't spend much time on these forums, friend.

How much do you really, actually want to please God?

What you do, even on these forums, show how sincere you really are in following God purely.

Simple, really.

Blessings in Christ, friend.

 

[Anastacia]

My replies to Michael in blue.

When I was a newborn in Christ, I really loved the idea of being raptured away by God prior to the events of the Great tribulation, but over the years, the Teacher has been showing me verses which led me to doubt the doctrine as it was taught to me. 1st Thessalonians definitely foretells the event referred to as the Rapture, so I believe in it, but a few nights ago the Lord showed me something from the book of the Revelation, which I'd read many times before, but never quite got.
Verses 4 through 6 of chapter 20 describe those who will live and reign with Christ during the millenial kingdom and identifies them as those who have taken part in the first resurrection (also known as the resurrection of the Just.) The second resurrection (of the rest of the dead) doesn't occur until the end of the millenial reign and the battle of Armageddon.
1st Thessalonians chapter 4, in verses 13 through 17 describe the event referred to as the rapture and identify the timing as immediately following the raising up of the dead in Christ. Since there are only 2 resurrections, this resurrection spoken of by the Apostle Paul is also the first resurrection (or resurrection of the just).
Now, according to the book of the Revelation the first resurrection happens after (or coincides with) the return of Christ in victory over the anti-christ. Those servants of God who have been justified through faith in Christ (both before His birth and after) that are to be rewarded with thrones during the millenial kingdom are described to include those who were beheaded for their testimony, did not receive the mark of the beast, and did not worship the beast nor his image (Rev.20:4).
I believe the Bible tells us that believers are going to go through some hard times. I believe that when people are resurrected from the dead, that the saved and unsaved will be resurrected at the same time. I believe after the resurrection, believers who are alive when Jesus comes, will have changed bodies, and together with the resurrected believer will meet the Lord in the air. I will show scriptures for my beliefs if anyone would like.
I'm still studying end times. And I find myself leaning towards the first resurrection being that of those believers who have died and gone to heaven---a resurrection of their spirit going to heaven, something that will happen to all believers after they die.
Notice in the Bible, we are told that Jesus will come, the dead will be resurrected, those believers alive will be changed, we will meet Jesus in the air, then God's wrath will come upon the earth and those unsaved? Notice that when Jesus comes we are not told that Jesus will live on this earth? I do not see from the scriptures that Jesus will reign physically on this earth the way it is now. I believe from the scriptures that God and Jesus will live with us on the earth AFTER the earth has passed away and when there is a New Earth.


You could try to make a case for these "tribulation" saints being Jews or others saved after the rapture, but then you have 3 resurrections and 2 churches. Furthermore, chapter 7 of the book of the Revelation, which describes the 144,000 saints from the tribes of Israel, also describes a "great multitude which no one could number" of all nations, tribes, and tongues who are also dressed in white robes and worshipping the lamb. This great multitude is further identified in the latter part of the chapter as those who have come out of the great tribulation and have washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb. These same also are described as standing before the throne of God, serving Him night and day. We don't need to invent some other gospel through which these are saved, as they are identified as having received the sacrifice of our Savior's blood.
As I said before, I'd read these verses many time without making the connection (although the rapture doctrine as I was taught it, tended to confuse the issue.) I firmly believe that God reveals those things that we need to know and understand, when we need to know them. The days are short indeed. Hallelujah and Amen.

 

[michaelvpardo]

you are correct. And 1 Thess. states that the antichrist must FIRST come and be fully revealed by what he does, BEFORE Christ can come the second time.

"But who cares, really?"

The obvious answer is that God cares. That God, in the person of His Son, would take on flesh and suffer sinful humanity for 30 and some odd years, then willingly submit to wrongful arrest, the roughest sort of treatment, and a wrongful death at the hands of those that He called and chose as His Holy people, speaks volumes of a love for humanity that we are incapable of understanding. I attempt to love as God loves with my actions, but my heart betrays me, being reviled at the evil that men do and the faithlessness of even those that profess to know Him. The truth is that I revile my own nature according to the flesh, but even so, Christ suffered and died for me as well as for you, and for those men whose actions I also revile. The truth is, any good thing that I ever have done, was only done because the Lord showed me what good is and gave me the good desire to do it. In my fallen nature I could easily claim such an action as my own doing and my own will, but I'm not so foolish now as to beleive such a thing. God alone is good, but He has provided for our evil choices through the blood of His son, and obedient or not He set His love upon us. I'm not a proponent of "easy believism," but our salvation is based not upon our obedience, but upon His faithfulness.. By grace we have been saved and not of works, that no man may boast before God. Amen.
That people have an increasing tendency toward believing what they will and doing what they want has something to do with the mystery of lawlessness, which I do not pretend to understand. The great apostasy, or turning away from God, is only something that occurs within the Church. No man seeks God. You can't turn away from someone that you've never known. The old Testament says, "Jeshurun grew fat and kicked," Jeshurun being understood as a name for glorified Israel. Moses warned Israel that they would turn to other Gods when they'd become wealthy and forgotten their maker. These things were written for us in the Church. The resurrected and glorified Lord gives ample warning to the Church through the rebukes and promises made to the seven Churches addressed directly in the book of the Revelation. He says that "those I love, I rebuke and chasten." I don't see the Churches being condemned to eternal destruction, but being corrected.
I do care for the Church, not because of the great love I have for her, but because of the great love that my Lord has for her. I was called to a ministry of prophecy, not one of revelation, because knowing Jesus is the point of the Book, but I was called to the warning of those who have grown dull of hearing and to help cleanse the house for the Master's return. Sometimes the Church wearys me beyond belief; I think of it as one long exercise in forgiveness, but I'm certainly no better than the next man and I hope and pray that I may be forgiven by those that I offend as well. If we indeed run cold, because of transgression, God is able to stoke the fires of our hearts and will restore us for His own glory and according to His promises. Amen.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I don't mean to simply trample on your beliefs, but I don't think that a spirit needs to be resurrected. The spirit (or breath as it is called in the old Testament writings) is from God and eternal and doesn't suffer a physical death. Spiritual death however is understood to be separation from God. When Eve and Adam partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they died, not physically, but spiritually, being separated from God by their sin. We, being descended from that same breath have inherited it's fallen nature. Even so, they (and we) received the promise from God of restoration. God also taught them how to cover their nakedness (literally atone for their nakedness) with animal skins gained by the shedding of blood, which we now understand pointed to the price paid by our Lord in His own blood upon the cross. Resurrection has always been understood to be in the flesh. Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible, and Job looked forward to seeing God, after he'd died, in the flesh. If the word says 2 resurrections, it means 2 resurrections. I don't read Greek or Hebrew (thank God for Strong's concordance), but I doubt that the translators have made a mistake in this regard. I welcome correction in this regard by anyone who may have a sound ability to translate the original texts.

 

[Anastacia]

I don't mean to simply trample on your beliefs, but I don't think that a spirit needs to be resurrected. The spirit (or breath as it is called in the old Testament writings) is from God and eternal and doesn't suffer a physical death. Spiritual death however is understood to be separation from God. When Eve and Adam partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they died, not physically, but spiritually, being separated from God by their sin. We, being descended from that same breath have inherited it's fallen nature. Even so, they (and we) received the promise from God of restoration. God also taught them how to cover their nakedness (literally atone for their nakedness) with animal skins gained by the shedding of blood, which we now understand pointed to the price paid by our Lord in His own blood upon the cross. Resurrection has always been understood to be in the flesh. Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible, and Job looked forward to seeing God, after he'd died, in the flesh. If the word says 2 resurrections, it means 2 resurrections. I don't read Greek or Hebrew (thank God for Strong's concordance), but I doubt that the translators have made a mistake in this regard. I welcome correction in this regard by anyone who may have a sound ability to translate the original texts.

We don't have to know the original language...we have the Bible translated in English. And Strong is just a man himself, who could be including his beliefs into his definitions, which I have noticed in some definitions and explanations.

As for the definition of 'resurrection'---it doesn't have to mean only a physical body resurrection. Resurrection means to be risen from the dead. So you see, a spirit that rises to heaven could very well be a resurrection.

And, from the scriptures, there is a one time for the bodily resurrection of the dead, not two like you say. The Bible says "a time is coming...'" and the scriptures say when "all" who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out---"those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

John 5:28-30 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice [sup]29[/sup] and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. [sup]30[/sup] By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

 

[Surf Rider]

When I said "who cares", it was speaking of those who have such beliefs, for really, they don't care. They will state otherwise. But its that scriptures which states regarding saying one thing, but living another.

Interesting thing, though, is that they statistics prove this to be true of Christendom: the same rate of sinning as the damned.

If the dictionary definition has any sense to it at all, the word "fool" is perfectly portrayed by Christendom, as a whole.

If the bible definition has any sense to it at all, the word "fool" is perfectly portrayed by Christendom, as a whole.

But then again, everyone thinks that they're the exception.

Novel.

And yes, somebody has to speak up regarding the soryy, sorry state of Christendom, just like the prophets of old did. It breaks the heart.

 

[Duckybill]

And yes, somebody has to speak up regarding the soryy, sorry state of Christendom, just like the prophets of old did. It breaks the heart.

Don't worry, God is SOON going to do some thorough House cleaning.

 

[Surf Rider]

Don't worry, God is SOON going to do some thorough House cleaning.

And all His people said "amen!"

Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus!

 

[revturmoil]

We don't have to know the original language...we have the Bible translated in English. And Strong is just a man himself, who could be including his beliefs into his definitions, which I have noticed in some definitions and explanations.

There are over 100 interpretational blunders in the English translation of the KJV. Most of the time, I would trust the work of Strong's, Thayer's, and Gesenius when interpreting the Word over the English translation of it. Without a general understanding of the Words in the original language, our understanding can be limited and even misguided.

 

[Anastacia]

There are over 100 interpretational blunders in the English translation of the KJV. Most of the time, I would trust the work of Strong's, Thayer's, and Gesenius when interpreting the Word over the English translation of it. Without a general understanding of the Words in the original language, our understanding can be limited and even misguided.

You don't have to only read the KJV. I have a few different translations to study with and compare. Even with the "blunders" as you call them, they don't automatically make new doctrines that shouldn't be.

And you are wrong that we need an understanding of the words in the original language. The Bible makes it clear.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Read also 1 Corinthians 2

 

[michaelvpardo]

We don't have to know the original language...we have the Bible translated in English. And Strong is just a man himself, who could be including his beliefs into his definitions, which I have noticed in some definitions and explanations.

As for the definition of 'resurrection'---it doesn't have to mean only a physical body resurrection. Resurrection means to be risen from the dead. So you see, a spirit that rises to heaven could very well be a resurrection.
I understand your point, but it seems derived from an incomplete biblical hermenuetic. A given verse doesn't stand on it's own, but is first examined in it's context and then also compared to other related scripture. Our God is not a god of confusion. The scripture must agree with itself and when it doesn't appear to agree, then we are missing something. I don't want to be adamant about my own position, but I do stand firmly on the Word. Revelation 20:4-6 specifically identifies 2 resurrections: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. NKJ Revelation 20:4-6

The Apostle Paul spends some time explaining that the resurrected body is not he same as the body that we are born with, but it is a body just the same:

42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. NKJ 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
You'll note that this passage says "spiritual body", not just spirit, and this passage is again in the context of the first resurrection and the rapture:

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. NKJ 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

I'm not sure how you can get to a resurrected spirit from these passages. The language of the Bible clearly distinguishes between body, spirit, and soul. That the body raised up is different is also clear and praise God for that as well. I'm 55 years old. I've always been overweight and this has taken a toll on my knees and feet. I have chronic back problems, degenerative disk disease in my neck, allergies to nearly every tree that exists as well as to molds and certain foods. I've experienced allergic reactions so strong that I nearly went into anaphylactic shock, from my throat swelling shut (but the Lord has preserved me through them.) I've been in severe car crashes, rolling one vehicle in an incident on an entry ramp, totalling another vehicle on a highway and having my head whipped through the glass of the door, because an elderly woman didn't see my vehicle in broad daylight (yet I live by the grace of God.) Strangely enough, I've never even broken a bone, not even when my dad pulled a 10 foot section of tree trunk down on me, whem we were cutting down a blighted maple tree in the front yard of the house where I grew up. I've developed carpal tunnel syndrome from the work that I do with my hands and had two surgeries to prevent the progress. I experience all sorts of pains, aches, migraines, things that I wouldn't wish on anyone, and I wouldn't consider it a blessing to live eternally in a body like this, but praise God, this isn't His intention.
The scripture says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This doesn't say that we'll be present with Him in a body, or just as disembodied spirit, but there is something which most people don't grasp about our existance on the earth. We have a built in sense of eternity (Ecclesiastes 3:11), and we sense the passage of time, but time is a part of creation. There was no day one until God said "Let there be light," yet God already existed. He always was, He is, and He will always be. Before time there was already eternity and after time there will still be eternity. I don't know if we will still experience time when we are united with God, though the scripture tends to suggest this to be so. Yet God has no temporal limitations, He knows the end from the beginning and time is no constraint to Him. We even see Him alter the passage of time at least twice in the scriptures, once in a battle against the Amorites in the book of Joshua (Joshua 10:12-14) and again as a sign to King Hezekiah in 2nd Kings 20:9-11. This concept of time is backed up by our understanding of Science and Mathematics. Einstein's theory of relativity holds the passage of time as a variable, not a constant, so that the passage of time varies inversely with acceleration (and therefore with the geometry of space) and there are some experimental observations that tend to confirm this. When I die, I know that I will awake in the presence of the Lord. This could be a million years from now, but for me it would be instantaneous. The passage of time is only relevant to our conscious perception of the world that we live in. I know that the souls under the altar in Rev. 6:9 are speaking in terms of time, waiting for their blood to be avenged, but again, this is in regard to creation and we can't say what their perception of time actually is. All this tends to cloud the issue of time lines in escatological events, but when we see the scripture describe something sequentially and define it in time, we can't redefine the time line given to satisfy our own understanding.

 

[Anastacia]

In reply to Micheal's last post: Other scriptures that may support the first resurrection being that of our spirits going to heaven with Jesus...

John 5 has both a spiritual and physical resurrection.

John 5:25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

We do have spirits that live on after the death of our physical bodies. I have a lot to say about that, but this is what I'll say for now: Jesus went to the spirits in prison and he also ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe. Scriptures for you to study are,1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:5-6; Hebrews 12:23. Ephesians 4:10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

Sorry to hear about so much devastation in your life. I hope things get better for you.

 

[[email protected]]

There are over 100 interpretational blunders in the English translation of the KJV. Most of the time, I would trust the work of Strong's, Thayer's, and Gesenius when interpreting the Word over the English translation of it. Without a general understanding of the Words in the original language, our understanding can be limited and even misguided.

The problem with understanding the Bible is not in translation, it's in the heart of the reader.

Much debate may focus on this exegesis or that, but in the end a consensus of opinion is created because of the general context, intent or direction of scriptural teaching.
Entire chapters or verses may at times be excluded without damaging the basic intent of the Good Book.
As a result, those who seek the truth will find it. Those who merely wish to discredit the courageous journey others may take only confuse themselves in the end.

Each man has a finite perspective of the truth and the whole truth cannot be discovered because each man has a different point of view.
Yet, it IS possible to successfully navigate the road of life with the small amount of truth we ARE given.

And that is all that is asked of any of us.

 

[revturmoil]

You don't have to only read the KJV. I have a few different translations to study with and compare. Even with the "blunders" as you call them, they don't automatically make new doctrines that shouldn't be.

And you are wrong that we need an understanding of the words in the original language. The Bible makes it clear.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Read also 1 Corinthians 2

It's ok to read the KJV or other versions to get a general understanding of God's Word. To really study it, esp. eschatology, you must have resources in the original language.

The verse you quote is basically saying that people with worldly wisdom and knowledge can't take in the simple truths of God's Word.

We must know Christ and not just know about Christ. Any serious student of God's Word should do their research in the original language to get the full understanding of it. Several other resources like a good bible dictionary is a must for someone seeking a full understanding of the truth.

 

[Anastacia]

It's ok to read the KJV or other versions to get a general understanding of God's Word. To really study it, esp. eschatology, you must have resources in the original language.

The verse you quote is basically saying that people with worldly wisdom and knowledge can't take in the simple truths of God's Word.

We must know Christ and not just know about Christ. Any serious student of God's Word should do their research in the original language to get the full understanding of it. Several other resources like a good bible dictionary is a must for someone seeking a full understanding of the truth.

What you say about you "must have resources in the original language" that is a false belief and teaching. What you say about the verses I quote "is basically saying that people with worldly wisdom and knowledge...." that's a false statement. What you say about any serious student of God's Word "should do their research in the original language to get the full understanding of it" another extremely false statement. And so is your statement that "several other resources like a good bible dictionary is a must for someone seeking a full understanding of the truth" FALSE. Those are your personal opinions that have no basis in the Truth. When you are still struggling with the truth, with all your Koine Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, and your dictionaries.....think about the scriptures I gave you.

 

[revturmoil]

What you say about you "must have resources in the original language" that is a false belief and teaching. What you say about the verses I quote "is basically saying that people with worldly wisdom and knowledge...." that's a false statement. What you say about any serious student of God's Word "should do their research in the original language to get the full understanding of it" another extremely false statement. And so is your statement that "several other resources like a good bible dictionary is a must for someone seeking a full understanding of the truth" FALSE. Those are your personal opinions that have no basis in the Truth. When you are still struggling with the truth, with all your Koine Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, and your dictionaries.....think about the scriptures I gave you.

What I said aren't false teachings, It's what I was taught in a good bible college as well as a church I was to become a minister in.
On the first day that I decided to study for the ministry, (1973) I was given a list of about 12 books to get. Some of them are,
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance with dictionary of Greek and Hebrew words, a Greek/English Interlinear NT, Bakers Dictionary of Theology, Wuest Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Christian Theology (by Bancroft), Knowing the doctrines of the Bible, Smith's Bible Dictionary, Vine's Expository dictionary of New Teatament Words, A topical Bible, Halley's Bible Handbook, a book on Exploring the Old Testament, and New Testament Survey, and last but not least, a book on Manners and Customs in the Bible.


One thing for sure is that you are one very argumentative person. Your reply is no different than telling my grand children to throw away their Encyclopedia Brittanica!

 

[Anastacia]

What I said aren't false teachings, It's what I was taught in a good bible college as well as a church I was to become a minister in.
On the first day that I decided to study for the ministry, (1973) I was given a list of about 12 books to get. Some of them are,
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance with dictionary of Greek and Hebrew words, a Greek/English Interlinear NT, Bakers Dictionary of Theology, Wuest Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Christian Theology (by Bancroft), Knowing the doctrines of the Bible, Smith's Bible Dictionary, Vine's Expository dictionary of New Teatament Words, A topical Bible, Halley's Bible Handbook, a book on Exploring the Old Testament, and New Testament Survey, and last but not least, a book on Manners and Customs in the Bible.


One thing for sure is that you are one very argumentative person. Your reply is no different than telling my grand children to throw away their Encyclopedia Brittanica!

Maybe you are the argumentative person? Ever think of that? We don't need to learn Koine Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, nor do we need dictionaries to understand fully the Word of God from the Bible. And why did you mention your college experience? Are you puffed up about it? Do you not know how many highly educated people there are in false religions...even ministers of them?
Now keep your personal attacks to yourself, and show how you can stop being argumentative.

 

[revturmoil]

Maybe you are the argumentative person? Ever think of that? We don't need to learn Koine Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, nor do we need dictionaries to understand fully the Word of God from the Bible. And why did you mention your college experience? Are you puffed up about it? Do you not know how many highly educated people there are in false religions...even ministers of them?
Now keep your personal attacks to yourself, and show how you can stop being argumentative.

All I can say is WOW!

I can see that you can be a very mean and judgmental person. I mentioned the books we were given in school and the methods that were suggested to debunk your assertion that these resources are unneccessary!

I didn't say we need to learn Greek and Hebrew. You don't need to learn it so much, only that we should utilize every resource avaliable, and a Greek and Hebrew dictionary is a very significant way of discerning the truth.

For example. There are over 130 words for all in both Greek and Hebrew and the word is used some 6-7 different ways. It doesn't always mean the entirety of the whole. But one wouldn't know that unless one uses a Greek/Hebrew dictionary.

You're not very nice. So I'm hoping there's an ignore botton somewhere. I can tell that I want nothing to do with you!

 

[Anastacia]

All I can say is WOW!

I can see that you can be a very mean and judgmental person. I mentioned the books we were given in school and the methods that were suggested to debunk your assertion that these resources are unneccessary!

I didn't say we need to learn Greek and Hebrew. You don't need to learn it so much, only that we should utilize every resource avaliable.

For example. There are over 130 words for all in both Greek and Hebrew and the word is used some 6-7 different ways. It doesn't always mean the entirety of the whole. But one wouldn't know that unless one uses a Greek/Hebrew dictionary.

You're not very nice. So I'm hoping there's an ignore botton somewhere. I can tell that I want nothing to do with you!

I figured as much....you just couldn't stop yourself from posting back your personal attack on me. You are guilty of the very thing you falsely accuse me of. Now go read what you said about me---that is who you are.....the proof is in what you posted. Did you not know you are not supposed to personally attack? That's the rule's here. Did you not know as a Christian you are not supposed to slander?
We don't have to know a little Greek, nor a little Hebrew, nor a little Aramaic. Doesn't matter how many times you come back to say otherwise. I guess those who don't know Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic think I'm nice and standing up for the Truth? Stop judging.