Sure but like Jesus' birth no one can prove a date. We can narrow it down but no exact date God didn't put it in the bible because it doesn't matter the only thing that does matter is that they both happened.
What was the date of the Crucifixion?
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Sure but like Jesus' birth no one can prove a date. We can narrow it down but no exact date God didn't put it in the bible because it doesn't matter the only thing that does matter is that they both happened.
The Light
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You are correct that we cannot prove the exact date of Jesus birth. However we can know the exact date of His death. And the date of His death is of great importance.
Philip James
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Hello Christian,
Twilight is the beginning of Nissan 14th. And, of course, Jesus offered Himself as the paschal lamb at precisely the moment proscribed by Moses, ' when the hour had come'.
'this is my body broken for you'
He was crucifed later that day, in the afternoon and placed in the tomb before sundown, which was the beginning of the sabath Nisan 15
Pax et Bonum
I’ll get to other evidences after you answer the following question.
Question: What date did the death angel “pass over” the houses with blood on their door posts? 14th or 15th of Nisan?
The Light
Well-Known Member
The angel passed over on the 15th of Nisan.
Now I have a question for you. What date was the Passover lamb killed? 14th or 15th of Nisan?
Timtofly
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The Pharisees were smarter than you are:
"Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first."
"Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers, Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept."
There is no way your 33AD will work, because the Pharisees did not even approach Pilate to seal the tomb until Friday, the day after Passover. They forgot until they finished their own Passover, and had to approach Pilate on Friday to seal the tomb. You have Jesus on the Cross when the tomb was being sealed before the body could be placed in the tomb.
They remembered to seal the tomb about 36 hours after Jesus died on the Cross, and remembered they still had a few more days, because Jesus claimed 3 days. But more than 24 hours after the tomb was sealed there was an earthquake around the middle of the night.
So 3 days passed since the Cross. Thursday the Paasover, Friday they remembered and the tomb was sealed. All day Saturday and then in the night watch when "they were sleeping" the earthquake happened and the stone rolled away. The women gathered spices on Friday, but did not know the tomb was sealed, but when they came Sunday morning it did not matter. You have the women breaking the Sabbath gathering spices. You have Jesus in the tomb for only 24 hours. Even the Pharisees knew it would be 72 hours.
Just because Jesus may have gotten away with breaking the Sabbath, does not mean the women were bold enough to. And there were 2 Sabbaths to avoid work. Jesus was just crucified, and obviously they were preparing spices never expecting a resurrection, even though one was promised. If they were expecting a resurrection, they would have never gathered the spices. You have Jesus on the Cross, while Scripture has them gathering spices, instead of watching the soldiers place Jesus on the Cross. So they were out gathering spices expecting Jesus would die, and then stay dead? Or did they gather spices after thy knew Jesus was in a tomb and where that tomb was?
So Passover was on the 15th day of Hebrew month.
In the case of AD 30 a systematic count of days from new moon can be followed leading to the preparation of the Paschal lamb on the 14th day. The disciples ate their meal in the beginning of the 15th day, Thursday evening, 6th April. It may be of interest that ‘full moon’ occurred on that evening at 9:36 pm. Messiah died later on that same Passover day, (but the following day by western calendar reckoning.) So, lunar astronomy confirms the traditional Gospel story. Yes, astronomical data places Christ’s death on Friday, 7th April AD 30.
Next evidence coming up. John 2:20
The Light
Well-Known Member
Oh, what's new. You and God disagreeing. Yes, the angel of death passed over on the 15th of Nisan. What does that matter. The Passover lamb was killed on the 14th of Nisan just as the lamb of God will killed on the 14th Nissan. Also the blood was spread on the 14th which is why God declares in His Word that the Passover feast is on the 14th.So Passover was on the 15th day of Hebrew month.
You can use any opinion, expert, scientist, genius, or luckiest man on earth. I have the Word of God making a direct statement. Always amazes me when one chooses to challenge the inerrant Word of God.
Exactly.
You can use any data, computer, chart or information you want. The Word of God does not support your conclusion. Jesus died on April 3, AD 33
And you are in error again. Astronomical data does not place Jesus death on Friday April 7th AD 30. It is an astronomical possibility as is April, 3 AD 33.
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The Light
Well-Known Member
A direct reference pointing to an AD30 crucifixion is John 2:13-20. This was the occasion when Jesus claimed he would rebuild the temple within three days, to which the Jews replied,
This discussion took place early in Christ’s ministry, shortly after his first miracle, and it was Passover time. Therefore, since it was the first year of his ministry, it would have been exactly three years prior to the last Passover.
The information enables a precision dating of Christ's death because Herod began construction of the temple in BC 20. BC 20 plus forty-six equals AD 27. Add three more years and what have we got? Passover (april) AD 30!
"It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" (John 2:20)
This discussion took place early in Christ’s ministry, shortly after his first miracle, and it was Passover time. Therefore, since it was the first year of his ministry, it would have been exactly three years prior to the last Passover.
The information enables a precision dating of Christ's death because Herod began construction of the temple in BC 20. BC 20 plus forty-six equals AD 27. Add three more years and what have we got? Passover (april) AD 30!
The Light
Well-Known Member
Can you provide the information whereby you are concluding that the Wedding at Cana took place at Passover time. I'm not saying it is incorrect, I'm saying how do you draw that conclusion? On an internet search there is someone that says that the wedding took place in October 26 AD. (I know this date is totally incorrect but wonder why he thinks October and you think Passover. So how do you conclude Passover time for the wedding of Cana?
In your attempt to exclude AD 33 as the year of Jesus death, your reasoning was that in AD 33 Passover fell on the 14th of Nisan. You said that we can exclude AD 33 as a viable date because Passover should fall on the 15th of Nisan. You also pointed out that in AD 30 Passover in fact fell on the 15th of Nisan. When we look at the Word, as I have pointed out, we see that God says Passover falls on the 14th of Nisan.
Leviticus 23
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.
This in fact proves that AD 30 is not the year Christ died, as proven by your own criteria. Passover falls on the 14th of Nisan in AD 33 therefore it is the year that Jesus died.
That said, the point you make about the 46 years is a good one. But we don't know for a fact that it wasn't a few years after AD 27 that the statement was made even though the tense "has" was used. I like to deal in facts. Even though it has already been proven that Jesus died in AD 33 I will deal with the AD 30 date as we move forward. So can you provide how you arrive at the conclusion that the wedding of Cana was during Passover.
Also, can you present any additional information that Jesus died in AD 30?
liafailrock
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I don't know if anyone here can "prove" it other than to get the story straight from the Lord's mouth in the end of time. However, I have come up with an exact birth date, and exact death date and using the biblical number (from gematrias) of the number of days he lived, I came up with several spooky "coincidences" that agreed historically, by gematria, by astronomical calculations and astronomical allusions in the bible. They all fit perfectly together and for me it clinches the dates. However, much like trying to convince an atheist that God exists, it depends on what people feel emotionally comfortable with and whether or not it supports or breaks their views.
Sir Isaac Newton did the same, and actually we came up with the same result. Now there will be debates on what history allows, and events such as an eclipse placing a limit on the possible outcomes, but in the case of the latter, there were actually several eclipses. To choose one over the other by logic alone I found it to be a subtle way of just promoting a certain viewpoint.
I don't agree with everything Newton believed, as he believed that Jesus ministered for 5 Passover years for example. But the man, as a theologian and historian versed in 5 languages, also "invented" calculus and was an astronomer and scientist as well. The problem with most theologians is they generally make poor mathematicians and astronomers, so some things in the bible pass right under their noses. The bible and the Word of God involve all those things. Therefore, agree or not, one has to give him serious attention because he did not come up with his conclusions lightly.
Sir Isaac Newton did the same, and actually we came up with the same result. Now there will be debates on what history allows, and events such as an eclipse placing a limit on the possible outcomes, but in the case of the latter, there were actually several eclipses. To choose one over the other by logic alone I found it to be a subtle way of just promoting a certain viewpoint.
I don't agree with everything Newton believed, as he believed that Jesus ministered for 5 Passover years for example. But the man, as a theologian and historian versed in 5 languages, also "invented" calculus and was an astronomer and scientist as well. The problem with most theologians is they generally make poor mathematicians and astronomers, so some things in the bible pass right under their noses. The bible and the Word of God involve all those things. Therefore, agree or not, one has to give him serious attention because he did not come up with his conclusions lightly.
Four in my humble opinion - Passover 27AD, 28AD, 29AD and 30AD. Not that I dont respect Issac Newton. Let me know if you ever start a new topic on your gematria.
From St. Johns timeline:
(John 2:11) "This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee ...
(John 2:12) After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there for a few days ...
(John 2:13) The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
(John 2:12) After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there for a few days ...
(John 2:13) The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Herod was renowned for his building projects and the dates are well recorded. He began the temple in BC 20 and the 46th year of construction was AD 27.
Will get there one by one.
liafailrock
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This is why I don't put much faith in historical dating as we are within 3 years since the time of Christ in your example. I fail to see how we can supposedly accurately predict back by historical data alone to say, King Hezekiah or King David or more recently, to the fall of the Temple in 70AD. The whole Gregorian calendar is supposed to have been based on the birth of Christ, so how did we get off by a few years?
I date based on 3 premises. So the accuracy of the dates are whether the premises are correct or not.
As for gematria (the second premise) and the number of days Christ lived from birth until crucifixion, the clues in the bible are (but not limited to as I may just not remember all the references) are 1) based on the lunar cycles the Lord lived as we know how long his ministry was and when he was born. This in turn is the same as 2) the gematria of a bible verse in the book of Acts (I fail to find it at the moment) but describing the whole ministry of Christ. More importantly, 3) it's related to the number 153 (fishes) and there is 4) a number found in the Great Pyramid that is the same for those who believe in a prophetic chronograph- biblical support is Isaiah 19:19-20) so that's 4 references to this number or related to it which have the theme of the life of Christ. #2 if I can find the verse is IMO the least convincing as there are other verses that use a different gematria regarding the life of Christ, but it was supposedly the only verse that had this exact number in it. #1 is logical deduction based on biblical history, #3 is a direct reference to a multiple of this number bearing the same meaning, and #4 is from straightforward measurement of an actual structure so these are all more tangible. Actually there's a 5th reference I can think of regarding the building of the Ark of the Covenant although I see that verse as shedding light on the 153 fish as this passage also has a gematria in it of 153. So it's not one or two questionable sources. And if I look harder, I'm sure to find more. But as the scriptures say, two or three witnesses shall establish a matter.
No one will ever know for sure as it can’t be proved and it really doesn’t matter all that matters is that it happened.
If the dates were important it would be in the bible so I guess God doesn’t want us to know
If the dates were important it would be in the bible so I guess God doesn’t want us to know
I just gave you a date from the Bible. (post#30) It was explicit. Hang around if you want some more.
There is no date in post #30 just a time period but who knows what date the Pharisees said that. All they are saying is that it took 46 years to build the temple they could of said that 2 years after the completion of the temple.
Once more no one will ever know if it was important the gospel writers would of recorded the date but they didn’t. God didn’t put it in the bible for a reason.
We know the date of the destruction of the temple from recorded history so all we know is that the temple was destroyed within forty years of Jesus giving the Olivit discourse. The reason we know is because Jesus prophesied that the temple would be destroyed within that generation and it was which proved that Jesus was God thus that date was important.
So we know that Jesus was crucified within 40 years of 70AD thus that’s all we need to know so any date setting is just speculation.
Don’t get me wrong it can be fun to try and figure out the date buts it’s not that important and only speculation.
Herod was renowned for his building projects and the dates are well recorded. He began the temple in BC 20 and the 46th year of construction was AD 27. Refer history books, encyclopedias, Josephus, Bible side notes and commentaries.
Yes, Bible dates ARE important.
The Light
Well-Known Member
From St. Johns timeline:
(John 2:11) "This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee ...
(John 2:12) After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there for a few days ...
(John 2:13) The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
I guess I should have taken the time to read all of John 2. And thank you.Oh I have no doubt that Temple construction began in BC 20. I also have no problem agreeing that it took 46 years to build and 27 AD was the 46th year. However, what we cannot prove is the date that the quote was made.
John 2
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
I'll deal with them one by one, but I already feel you have lost the war, as Passover is on the 14th of Nisan according to the Word of God, proving you wrong.
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