What was the date of the Crucifixion?

[Philip James]

Twilight / sunset of the 14th begins the 15th day

Hello Fullness,
Twilight follows sunset. As sunset marks the beginning of a new day, the last supper was held at the beginning of Nisan 14, at twilight, where Jesus offered Himself as the Paschal Lamb, at the time proscribed by Moses.
He was crucified later that day (still Nisan 14) and laid in the tomb before sunset (the beginning of Nisan 15)

Pax et Bonum

 

[Zao is life]

Ok. Awesome post. One correction. The Jewish day does not begin at twilight or sunset it begins at nightfall.

That said. There is no way that I can think of that Jesus could have eaten the Passover meal and then been killed on Passover. It's been a while since things didn't fit together perfectly for me, so this is going to be interesting.

Consider this:
Luke 3
1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

It looks to me as if John the Baptist began his ministry in 29 AD. If Jesus taught for 3 and half years how can Jesus die in 30 AD?

Things don't add up. Thoughts.

Even today, no Jew has any doubt as to the meaning of "twilight" when it divides tonight (sunset) from tomorrow. You're splitting hairs and making it obvious that you're using this type of red herring in desperation because you can't address what the Word of God says in Mark 14:12.

How long do you think it took darkness to fall after twilight of 14th Nisan? 5 hours? How long do you think it takes to prepare the lamb after it's been slaughtered, and how long did the meal last?

So you're obviously basing 29AD upon non-Biblical history regarding what year Tiberius began to reign, but the above verses give scant information actually, about what year John began his ministry. It says only that the the word of God came to him in the 15th year of Tiberius' reign. It does not say what year that was - you have to go outside the Bible to find it - but you accused CG of saying something that the Word of God does not say, even though it does say so in Mark 14:12.

So although splitting hairs over the word "twilight" and bringing up the year that the Word of God came to John the Baptizer are cool red herrings to throw into the picture (while you completely avoid what Mark 14:12 says), you're still completely avoiding what Mark 14:12 (the Word of God) says about the day Jesus ate the Passover meal with His disciples.

The 1st day of Unleavened Bread is always the 15th Nisan. Google the date before you accuse people of stating things that the Word of God does not state.

 

[Zao is life]

Hello Fullness,
Twilight follows sunset. As sunset marks the beginning of a new day, the last supper was held at the beginning of Nisan 14, at twilight, where Jesus offered Himself as the Paschal Lamb, at the time proscribed by Moses.
He was crucified later that day (still Nisan 14) and laid in the tomb before sunset (the beginning of Nisan 15)

Pax et Bonum

I suppose it took 5 hours for night to fall and the new date to begin, and I suppose the Lord ate the meal on the first day of Unleavened Bread before it started (Mark 14:12)?

twi·light (twī′līt′)
a. The diffused light from the sky during the early evening or early morning when the sun is below the horizon and its light is refracted by the earth's atmosphere.
b. The time of the day when the sun is just below the horizon, especially the period between sunset and dark.

twilight

 

[Philip James]

twi·light (twī′līt′)
a. The diffused light from the sky during the early evening or early morning when the sun is below the horizon and its light is refracted by the earth's atmosphere.
b. The time of the day when the sun is just below the horizon, especially the period between sunset and dark

The twilight period, from sunset ("shekiah") until three stars are visible in the sky ("tzeit hakochavim"), is an "iffy" time period, known as "bein hashmashot." Shabbat and all the holidays begin at sunset, the earliest possible definition of nightfall, and end when three stars appear in the sky the next evening, the latest definition of nightfall.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Jewish-Day.htm

Pax et Bonum

 

[Zao is life]

Explain why Mark's gospel calls the day Jesus ate the Passover meal with His disciples "the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the passover":

And the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You desire that we go and prepare that You may eat the passover?

Are you saying that Mark was wrong, and that (therefore) the Word of God is misleading us?

The Jews do not eat the Passover meal after dark on the evening of 13 / 14 Nisan. They eat the Passover meal after dark on 14 / 15 Nisan, when the first day of Unleavened Bread (15 Nisan) has already begun.

 

[Christian Gedge]

It looks to me as if John the Baptist began his ministry in 29 AD. If Jesus taught for 3 and half years how can Jesus die in 30 AD?

Things don't add up. Thoughts.

Thanks for Luke 3:1-3 Looks like it doesn’t “cut the butter” for AD 30 OR AD33. Hmmm :smlhmm:

 

[Zao is life]

By the way, the 15th year of Tiberius' reign would have been the year following the 14th birthday of his reign, so AD 28. If you turn 40, it's the 41st year of your life.

"The dating of Tiberius Caesar’s reign is open to some debate. Jack Finegan has marvelously sorted through the data, writing some fourteen pages on the subject. He is detailed and precise. He demonstrates that the actual reign of Tiberius was from August 19, A.D. 14 through March 16, A.D. 37." What are the dates of Tiberius Caesar's reign?

14 August A.D 14 to 14 August A.D 28 = 14 years. The 15th year of his reign started on 15 August, A.D 28.

Consider this:
Luke 3
1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

It looks to me as if John the Baptist began his ministry in 29 AD. If Jesus taught for 3 and half years how can Jesus die in 30 AD?

Things don't add up. Thoughts.

 

[Philip James]

The Jews do not eat the Passover meal after dark on the evening of 13 / 14 Nisan. They eat the Passover meal after dark on 14 / 15 Nisan, when the first day of Unleavened Bread (15 Nisan) has already begun.

Then they arent following the proscription set out by Moses are they?

Jesus, of course, offers Himself at precisely the time proscribed by Moses.

'when the hour had come'

Pax et Bonum

 

[The Light]

By the way, the 15th year of Tiberius' reign would have been the year following the 14th birthday of his reign, so AD 28. If you turn 40, it's the 41st year of your life.

"The dating of Tiberius Caesar’s reign is open to some debate. Jack Finegan has marvelously sorted through the data, writing some fourteen pages on the subject. He is detailed and precise. He demonstrates that the actual reign of Tiberius was from August 19, A.D. 14 through March 16, A.D. 37." What are the dates of Tiberius Caesar's reign?

14 August A.D 14 to 14 August A.D 28 = 14 years. The 15th year of his reign started on 15 August, A.D 28.

I originally make the same calculation as you did. I was wondering how I was getting AD 28 and most were quoting AD 29. I actually went to the same sight as you and saw this statement. So I edited my post.

" According to Roman law, the first year is counted as the year of succession and not as a year in which he would have reigned. This can be confirmed by such Roman historians as Tacitus and Suetonius.[3] Consequently, that would mean his reign is counted from A.D. 15. This impacts the dating of the start of John the Baptist’s ministry as given by Luke in Luke 3:1-2."

 

[The Light]

Even today, no Jew has any doubt as to the meaning of "twilight" when it divides tonight (sunset) from tomorrow.

As I said the day begins at nightfall, not twilight or sunset.

You're splitting hairs and making it obvious that you're using this type of red herring in desperation because you can't address what the Word of God says in Mark 14:12.

What are you talking about. I have avoided nothing. Here is my quote in response to your post. "There is no way that I can think of that Jesus could have eaten the Passover meal and then been killed on Passover. It's been a while since things didn't fit together perfectly for me, so this is going to be interesting." Does that sound like I have avoided the issue. I have just been presented something that did not make sense. It makes perfect sense to you, but you don't understand what I do, and what you see as cut and dried, I see as a conflict. I can assure you, there is an answer, because the Word is true. I need to do a little research to figure out exactly what is going on because things do not add up. Same for the situation with the 15th year of Tiberius. If that is correct then John the Baptist began His ministry later than some believe.

So you're obviously basing 29AD upon non-Biblical history regarding what year Tiberius began to reign, but the above verses give scant information actually, about what year John began his ministry. It says only that the the word of God came to him in the 15th year of Tiberius' reign. It does not say what year that was - you have to go outside the Bible to find it - but you accused CG of saying something that the Word of God does not say, even though it does say so in Mark 14:12.

Chris said that Passover was on the 15th of Nisan. I said that's not correct, the Passover in on the 14th of Nisan.

Leviticus 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.

So although splitting hairs over the word "twilight" and bringing up the year that the Word of God came to John the Baptizer are cool red herrings to throw into the picture (while you completely avoid what Mark 14:12 says),

The fact is it is important to recognize when the day begins for the Jew. The correct answer is nightfall. That's a fact. What you call splitting hair I call the truth.

you're still completely avoiding what Mark 14:12 (the Word of God) says about the day Jesus ate the Passover meal with His disciples..

I am not avoiding the question, I just don't have the correct answer at this time. I know something is not adding up. But I also cannot at this time explain how it would be possible for Jesus to eat the Passover meal and then die on Passover. The Passover meal would be at night and Jesus died at 3pm. And yet there appears to be an inconsistency. Something is off. I will read the Gospels and get you an answer in the next day.

The 1st day of Unleavened Bread is always the 15th Nisan. Google the date before you accuse people of stating things that the Word of God does not state.

I am fully aware that the 1st day of Unleavened bread is the 15th of Nisan. Can you provide my qoute where I said differently?

 

[The Light]

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[covenantee]

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Hey, that was my next Scripture.

Of course.

One fold - Christ's Church.

One shepherd - Christ Himself.

 

[Philip James]

The 1st day of Unleavened Bread is always the 15th Nisan. Google the date before you accuse people of stating things that the Word of God does not state.

From the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month until the evening of the twenty-first day of this month you shall eat unleavened bread.

Pax et Bonum

 

[The Light]

Hey, that was my next Scripture.

Of course.

One fold - Christ's Church.

One shepherd - Christ Himself.

Exactly. And yet you avoid the timing.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest. However, they served other Gods and will not be the first harvest. The Gentiles will be the 1st harvest. The we have 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes as the seed of the woman Israel will be the second harvest. All about timing when Israel is regrafted into the olive tree.

 

[covenantee]

Exactly. And yet you avoid the timing.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest. However, they served other Gods and will not be the first harvest. The Gentiles will be the 1st harvest. The we have 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes as the seed of the woman Israel will be the second harvest. All about timing when Israel is regrafted into the olive tree.

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – His Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

• Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
• Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
• Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
• Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
• Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
• Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
• Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
• Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
• Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
• Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
• Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
• Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

• Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

• Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.

 

[Marty fox]

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – His Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

• Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
• Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
• Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
• Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
• Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
• Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
• Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
• Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
• Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
• Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
• Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
• Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

• Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

• Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.

Amen just as John heard of the lion of Judah and saw the slain lamb John heard of the 144000 and saw the great multitude of every nation .

People can understand that the church is the bride of the lamb and that doesn’t mean the church is all women the same can be said for 144000 not being all men

 

[The Light]

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – His Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:

• Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
• Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
• Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
• Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
• Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
• Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
• Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
• Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
• Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
• Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
• Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
• Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

• Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

• Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.

Or we could go with the facts that the 144, 000 are 12,000 from each tribe as the Word of God declares. Since we see the kings and priests in heaven in Revelation 5 and the elders before the throne in Revelation 4, we know where the Church is.

 

[The Light]

Thanks for Luke 3:1-3 Looks like it doesn’t “cut the butter” for AD 30 OR AD33. Hmmm :smlhmm:

Let's take another look at AD 33. If John began his ministry in AD 29 which is the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar and Jesus begins His ministry later that year its very, very, highly likely that the Passover in AD 29 had already occurred. If Jesus ministered for 3 and a half years and Passover was occurring when He died, that would mean that 4 Passovers would have to have occurred during his ministry. That would place the first Passover of His ministry in 30 AD and the last Passover in 33 AD. As usual everything fits together perfectly.

Now, how does Jesus eat the Passover meal which is served in the evening and yet die on Passover at 3 PM? Something is not right that's for sure.

 

[Christian Gedge]

If John began his ministry in AD 29 which is the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar and Jesus begins His ministry later that year its very, very, highly likely that the Passover in AD 29 had already occurred.

Hang on. Tiberius 15th year was Aug AD28 to Aug AD29, so Jesus first Passover would have been April AD29 and his last Passover April AD32. See FotG’s post number 67.

So, like I said, it doesn’t “cut the butter” for AD 30 OR AD33. However, there is another explanation. I’ll get back tomorrow.

 

[covenantee]

Or we could go with the facts that the 144, 000 are 12,000 from each tribe as the Word of God declares. Since we see the kings and priests in heaven in Revelation 5 and the elders before the throne in Revelation 4, we know where the Church is.

The Church is the Holy Nation of all faithful believers from all tribes and nations, past, present, and future. There are no limits within that number.