What's The Point?

[April_Rose]

I'm talking infant baptism here btw. I made a choice as an adult to get baptized because I wanted to dedicate my life following Christ, but since an infant can't make that decision,.. I feel that it's rather pointless of getting them baptized. Those are just my opinions anyways.

 

[Michael1985]

I've long agreed with you. Infant baptism is pointless.

 

[Rita]

I can only speak from the history over here in the U.K but it was a cultural belief that babies needed to be Christened in order to be ‘ okay ‘ if they died. So it was more a case of the parents wanting to protect their children. Also God parents were chosen and part of the ceremonies was to make it a declaration that if anything happen to the parents the God parents would become legal guardians. I don’t know if that is still legal binding, but it use to be.
I was Christened as a baby, but when I came to faith I never even considered that it was the same , or instead of , the baptism that is mentioned in scripture.
Rita

 

[Marc RL Ministry]

its an act of faith by the parents I see no harm in it but also no need to do it certainly isn't something Christ told us to do or not to do, my kids haven't been baptized but I was as a baby they will when they decide to follow and accept Jesus.

I don't disagree with it at all think anything that draw your children to God is good for us I know growing up God was always with me even though I wasn't walking his path.

 

[dev553344]

This is another mixed bag. There is no definite age for baptism defined in the bible. I say if parents want their children baptised and confirmed with the Holy Spirit then more power to them. But I don't think it's necessary until they reach an age of accountability which is around:

Learning Right From Wrong
"To the legal system, the answer is clear: children have the requisite moral sense--the ability to tell right from wrong--by age 7 to 15, depending on which state they live in, and so can be held responsible for their actions."

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm talking infant baptism here btw. I made a choice as an adult to get baptized because I wanted to dedicate my life following Christ, but since an infant can't make that decision,.. I feel that it's rather pointless of getting them baptized. Those are just my opinions anyways.

And @Rita too. The history goes back a long ways and it is rather involved and to some degree involves the Catholic Church's belief it had control of salvation. They also did forced baptisms and that is another story.

But the way I look at it, I see no harm in dedicating or christening a baby by baptism. What does it do...who knows?
But when they are old enough to choose, they should do an adult baptism.

 

[Rita]

And @Rita too. The history goes back a long ways and it is rather involved and to some degree involves the Catholic Church's belief it had control of salvation. They also did forced baptisms and that is another story.

But the way I look at it, I see no harm in dedicating or christening a baby by baptism. What does it do...who knows?
But when they are old enough to choose, they should do an adult baptism.

Not sure, my parents had no involvement or connection to the Catholic Church. It was very much linked to the Church of England ( Anglican ). Most people in the U.K. aligned themselves to C of E , even now when my dad is asked ‘ What Religion are you ?’ He will say ‘ C of E ‘ it was just an accepted thing that if you believed in God you came under that banner. I guess for my parents generation it stemmed from the Victoria era, but as you say, it would have gone way further back .........
Ok, so what is your own history of christenings in the US, I mean you wouldn’t have Anglican churches......I have not been part of any church that encouraged infant baptisms, they would have services of dedicating and thanking God for the life of a baby / child, but it was never linked to salvation itself.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not sure, my parents had no involvement or connection to the Catholic Church. It was very much linked to the Church of England ( Anglican ). Most people in the U.K. aligned themselves to C of E , even now when my dad is asked ‘ What Religion are you ?’ He will say ‘ C of E ‘ it was just an accepted thing that if you believed in God you came under that banner. I guess for my parents generation it stemmed from the Victoria era, but as you say, it would have gone way further back .........
Ok, so what is your own history of christenings in the US, I mean you wouldn’t have Anglican churches......I have not been part of any church that encouraged infant baptisms, they would have services of dedicating and thanking God for the life of a baby / child, but it was never linked to salvation itself.

Oh I am not saying that the Catholics are they only one that does it. The history of it goes back to the Catholics.

 

[April_Rose]

Oh I am not saying that the Catholics are they only one that does it. The history of it goes back to the Catholics.

Methodists also do it, I just never would myself.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I'm talking infant baptism here btw. I made a choice as an adult to get baptized because I wanted to dedicate my life following Christ, but since an infant can't make that decision,.. I feel that it's rather pointless of getting them baptized. Those are just my opinions anyways.

Matthew 28:19 tells us to go make disciples baptizing them. To be a disciple you have to understand what you're being taught to believe it or not.
Acts 8:12 says that when the people believed Phillip they were baptized.

Religious historian Augustus Neander wrote: “Faith and baptism were always connected with one another;

 

[Enoch111]

I can only speak from the history over here in the U.K but it was a cultural belief that babies needed to be Christened in order to be ‘ okay ‘ if they died. So it was more a case of the parents wanting to protect their children.

This belief originated in the Catholic Church. But it led to much confusion. "Christened" is an abbreviation for "Christianized" and it was assumed that a baptized baby was automatically a Christian, because the RCC believe in baptismal regeneration -- that the act of baptism signals the new birth. But that is not according to Scripture.

 

[Rita]

This belief originated in the Catholic Church. But it led to much confusion. "Christened" is an abbreviation for "Christianized" and it was assumed that a baptized baby was automatically a Christian, because the RCC believe in baptismal regeneration -- that the act of baptism signals the new birth. But that is not according to Scripture.

Yes, I agree, but I don’t think the average parent actually even considers the deeper relevance. Now it is just a formality , something you do. It’s become a tradition.
Rita

 

[theefaith]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!


Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments!

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,



There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Thru the sacraments!


God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism:
(initiation into the new covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Acts 2:38-39 acts 8
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

”AND TO YOUR CHILDREN”