What's the scoop?

[Dan Clarkston]

But are you really saved? If you are, you want to follow Jesus.

Yes, I'm really saved and I want to follow Jesus... they say He drank wine and smoking weed is kinda like that

Being saved is MORE than simply repeating a prayer. It has to do with repentance.

So you're saying salvation is not actually by faith alone... I have to do something to be saved?

Your salvation depends on you, not your pastor.

He said it was by faith alone.

Is he wrong?

 

[Mink57]

Yes, I'm really saved and I want to follow Jesus... they say He drank wine and smoking weed is kinda like that





So you're saying salvation is not actually by faith alone... I have to do something to be saved?






He said it was by faith alone.

Is he wrong?

I mean no disrespect by what I'm about to say but...

...it almost seems like you're looking for some kind of "get-out-of-jail-free" card, so you can keep on sinning.

 

[RedFan]

“Yet Paul stresses faith, and not works, as the exclusive means to justification before God.”

“And so he should, Mark; but take care that you do not confuse justification with sanctification. Justification—which is to say, forgiveness of our sins and consequent righteousness before God—is brought about by faith in the sacrifice of our Savior Jesus Christ; it is this which satisfies the demands of God’s justice in the face of our sins and reconciles us to God. Sanctification—which is to say, the active process of the believer’s chosen life of holiness—is brought about by choosing to behave morally, to avoid sin and to demonstrate through our actions a love of God and our neighbor. Both are a matter of God’s grace. And both are necessary to salvation. Those who seek salvation by the sincere performance of good works alone are doomed to failure, if they have not been first justified by faith. Likewise, those who rely solely on their justification through faith for their salvation, but thereafter do not live according to the Spirit they have received,
also are doomed to failure.”

“But does not one flow naturally from the other?” I asked. “Is not justification through faith in Christ a guarantee of sanctification as well?”

“You ask two different questions, Mark! Yes, the same faith which justifies may also lead one to be sanctified, by implanting in the believer the will to act in accordance with God’s will. But that is not a necessary consequence. Free choice remains to be exercised. A person chooses to believe, and also chooses to behave—and one can make the first choice yet not make the second in harmony with the first.”

“But if a man truly believes something, surely he will act in accordance with that belief.” Now it was I who was beginning to sound like Timothy. “If one behaves other than in accordance with one’s professed belief, does that not betray the belief as not truly held to begin with?”

“You confuse faith with faithfulness, Mark. We do not cast off human flaws and weaknesses simply by believing in the saving gospel of Jesus of Nazareth. By that faith the slate is instantly wiped clean—and handed back to us. How we will write on it after that is up to each of us, with all our flaws and frailties, but also with the saving grace of God to help us overcome them.”

“You are saying, then, that one’s faith alone does not necessarily ensure ultimate salvation,” I replied. “I am not sure Paul would agree.”

“Oh? Did his letter not sternly warn the Galatians that fornication, licentiousness, idolatry, enmity, anger, selfishness, envy and the like must be avoided by all those who would inherit the kingdom of God? Yet he was writing to believers, to those who had already been justified by their faith! What point would there have been to such warnings if the sanctification of the believers were automatic? No, Mark. Paul understands well that faith is neither a license to sin, nor a guarantee that sin will be avoided—and a sinful life will bring God’s harsh judgment on the sinner, believer and nonbeliever alike.”

 

[Dan Clarkston]

My coworker claims out future sins are not automatically forgiven which is something the baptist church I got saved in teaches. I'm thinking that if my future sins are forgiven and even if we sin, we're already forgiven right?

Here's a write up my coworker emailed to me so please let me know if this is legit or should I ignore it:

Future Sins Are NOT Automatically Forgiven
They Are Teaching The Christian's Future Sins Are Already Forgiven!

The security-in-sin teachers have gone so far as to say that a Christian's future sins are already forgiven, even before they are committed. Perhaps they teach this way in an effort to safeguard their doctrine of eternal security while they continue to tickle ears. I have heard at least one state that if it was possible for a Christian to lose his salvation, it could only occur through sin. Hence, by removing (in their minds) the only danger to eternal security, they have erected an imagined indestructible shield for its protection. (Unfortunately, like many other Scriptural issues, the eternal security teachers are oblivious to the two other ways a Christian can lose his salvation besides through sin: [1] Disowning Jesus through persecution and [2] Accepting or preaching a wrong plan of salvation. See chapter 12 in our 801 page book, The Believer's Conditional Security: Eternal Security Refuted for a detailed explanation.) Here are two specific examples of what we are dangerously being taught from eternal security teachers Charles Stanley, Joseph Prince and David Jeremiah respectively:

No matter what you do as a child of God, you are forgiven. You say, "Murder?" Forgiven. "Stealing?" Forgiven. "Adultery?" Forgiven. "Worshiping Idols?" Forgiven.

His blood that was shed forgives all your sins - past, present and even future sins. Many Christians have the erroneous belief that only their past sins have been forgiven. They believe that when they received Christ, only their past sins were forgiven. So they believe that they have to be very careful from that point onwards.

Do you realize that when God forgives you, he forgives your past, your present and your future sin? Some people struggle with that terribly. They think that God only forgives them of all the sin they committed until they were converted. I had a lady tell me one day, she said, "You know, I know my sins were forgiven when I accepted Christ, but I've done a lot of other sin. How am I forgiven for that?" Well, you were already forgiven.

If you are a Christian, try to put yourself in their shoes thinking that your future sins are already forgiven before you commit them. If you accepted that premise, as taught by the so-called pastor Joseph Prince, etc., then your spiritual guard is not only down it is gone. You won't ever need to guard against personal sin and its defiling abilities since you are already forgiven. This would mean you will always remain spiritually pure, just as you were the day you were saved, even if you would turn to sexual immorality, drunkenness, theft, idolatry, lying, murder, etc. You would never have to confess those sins to God that you committed after conversion, repent of them, forgive others who sinned against you, etc. to be purified, forgiven and cleansed, since you were never contaminated by any sin after conversion. In contrast, the spiritual danger of failing to do these is clear to anyone who has read through the New Testament with spiritual ears to hear and eyes to see, yet is seemingly hidden from the security-in-sin teachers themselves. Let me cite some of the reasons why Christians reject the above deplorable teaching as taught by once saved always saved Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah and many others.

The Scriptural Evidence Against
Future Sins Forgiven​

Please notice what Jesus said to the Christians, after his infinite death on the cross for every person's sins:

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. (Rev 3:4)

Comment: All the other people in the church at Sardis did soil their spiritual clothes and were no longer worthy to walk with Jesus dressed in white. How did the majority, who were previously saved, get soiled? The answer is clear when you realize that sin can defile a Christian and even bring him to his spiritual death. That is why we have the following Scripture (among others):

... Do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. (1 Tim 5:22)

Paul believed Timothy could become spiritually defiled again through sin and consequently told Timothy to keep himself pure. That would be meaningless, if Timothy would turn to sin and automatically be pre-forgiven. Paul (and others) were repeatedly teaching like this, even to the point of telling Christians they could die spiritually through sin and not inherit the kingdom of God:

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live (Rom 8:13)

but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. (James 1:14-16)

 

[Dan Clarkston]

rest of the write up he sent me:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)​

At this point, I could stop this article, for it has already been proven that sin committed after conversion can defile a Christian, bring him to his spiritual death and cause him not to inherit the kingdom of God. All of that would be impossible if his future sins were already forgiven before they were committed, like these popular savage wolves in sheep's clothing want us all to believe.

Past Sins NOT Future Sins​

What the Bible teaches about past sins being forgiven at the point of repentance and a submissive faith in Jesus (Acts 20:21 cf. 26:20) is shown in the following Scripture:

But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. (2 Pet 1:9)

That Scripture was written about any person who had been saved, but since has forgotten he was cleansed from his past sin. Please note, a Christian at the point of salvation is cleansed from all his sins up to that moment - his past sins, according to Peter. Similarly, Paul stated below:

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins (Col 2:13)

All our sins were forgiven in a moment's time when we got born again. If a Christian is afterwards deceived or yields to the devil's temptations to sin, the following is given as a remedy:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

The Apostle John put himself in on that Scripture by using the plural pronoun we. In other words, if we don't confess those sins to God, which are committed after conversion, then we won't be purified from their effects. (Apparently, no person who believes what the security-in-sin teachers proclaim about this will confess his sins to God and renounce them to get purified, since he thinks they are already forgiven.)

He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. (Prov 28:13)

There are other indications that a Christian's future sins are not forgiven and that sin can spiritually defile a believer, even though Jesus died for all sins nearly 2000 years ago:

See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. (Heb 12:15)

Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Cor 7:1)

Also, notice the following Scripture which shows that the Apostle Paul knew of some who wandered away from a pure heart. In other words, sin can adversely affect a pure heart. That would be impossible if their future sins were already forgiven:

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. (1 Tim 1:5,6)

As Christians, we are also to have a certain frame of mind, a certain type of hope that will purify:

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:2,3)

Jesus taught openly that sin can drag any person guilty of lust to hell:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Mat 5:28,29)

The Lord also stated the stipulation for a Christian to get his sins forgiven, that is, he must forgive others who sin against him. Such a teaching would be impossible if his future sins were all automatically forgiven even before they were committed. If that was true then there would be no conditions to get forgiven, unlike what Jesus stated:

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14,15)

Then the master called the servant in. "You wicked servant," he said, "I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?" In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart. (Mat 18:32-35)

That is not all we read about a Christian's sins getting forgiven. The prayer of faith can bring healing to the body, as well as forgiveness of sins:

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. (James 5:14,15)

Another Death Blow To Future Sins Automatically Forgiven​

Another deathblow to the lie that a Christian's future sins are already forgiven is the following passage:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Heb 10:26, 27)

Clearly, Heb. 10:26,27 is referring to people who had been converted then decided to deliberately sin in a certain way. Instead of believing the ear-tickling deadly lies of our day, let's all cleave to the message of the Bible. Among other things it will show us the following, which also would be impossible if a Christian's future sins were already forgiven:

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. (2 Pet 3:14)

Being found spotless, blameless and at peace with God is not automatic. Christians under grace are to put forth every effort to remain in this condition:

Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. (Luke 13:24)

Former Sins Not Future Sins
in Romans 3:25​

The final nail in the OSAS coffin on this point, about future sins forgiven, comes from Romans 3:25. Read the clarity for yourself from different translations:

Whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed (NASB)

Whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed (NKJV)

Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins (ESV)

Dear reader, don't let yourself, family or friends be deceived by the eternal security teachers Scriptural distortions. Contend for the faith against their deadly teachings. Souls hang in the balance. Don't be deceived by large mega congregations, like Joseph Prince church! Avoid Joseph Prince podcast too for your own good, even if you are waiting to die! Remember: your future sins are NOT automatically forgiven.

 

[Cassandra]

Yes, I'm really saved and I want to follow Jesus... they say He drank wine and smoking weed is kinda like that





So you're saying salvation is not actually by faith alone... I have to do something to be saved?






He said it was by faith alone.

Is he wrong?

What I said is you (your new man) will WANT to do His will. We are justified by faith, but there must be a change in your nature. I already brought that up before. We BECOME A NEW CREATURE!
If there is no change, there must have been no salvation, because one follows the other.

Are you just trying to make an excuse to smoke? Do you not want to give it up? You need to ask the Lord what His will is, not what we think.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

..it almost seems like you're looking for some kind of "get-out-of-jail-free" card, so you can keep on sinning.

I'm going what when you folks are telling me which is - We cannot be un-saved no matter what, our lifestyle can never cause us to be un-saved, God cannot see out sins anymore because Jesus covers us, we all continue to sin even after getting saved, and all our future sins are already forgiven.

If all this is true, then it doesn't matter if we sin or not because no matter we can't lose our salvation right?

Or is my coworker right and we CAN lose out salvation?

Which is it??? That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Do you not want to give it up? You need to ask the Lord what His will is, not what we think.

It's a moot point isn't it since all of our future sins are already forgiven?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

“If you want to hear God speak, read your Bible. If you want to hear God speak audibly, read your Bible out loud.”
— Justin Peters

My coworker talked about Justin Peters being a false teacher because he teaches eternal security and we can never lose our salvation no matter how we live.

 

[Cassandra]

It's a moot point isn't it since all of our future sins are already forgiven?

I have never believed that.And I think you may be a leg puller (the only synonym I can think of for the "t" word). Learn the truth for yourself. Coming here does not work. You cannot stand before the Lord and tell him "Well the people on the Christianity Board told me..." or "my pastor told me.." Only someone foolish would not look for himself.

Putting you on ignore.

 

[Cassandra]

My coworker talked about Justin Peters being a false teacher because he teaches eternal security and we can never lose our salvation no matter how we live.

Justin Peters quote about God is why I put it in my signature “If you want to hear God speak, read your Bible. If you want to hear God speak audibly, read your Bible out loud.”

I do not and never have believed in OSAS.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I do not and never have believed in OSAS.

Pretty sure this Justin peters guy does teach eternal security

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I have never believed that.And I think you may be a leg puller (the only synonym I can think of for the "t" word). Learn the truth for yourself. Coming here does not work. You cannot stand before the Lord and tell him "Well the people on the Christianity Board told me..." or "my pastor told me.." Only someone foolish would not look for himself.

Putting you on ignore.

If eternal security teaching is true and you don't believe in that, then it would be good to not hear from you anymore since you would be telling me wrong stuff that does not agree with eternal security teaching

 

[Mink57]

Pretty sure this Justin peters guy does teach eternal security

Nope.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I dunno, my coworker founds some quotes where this guy claimed we could never lose our salvation.

That's what eternal security teaches does it not?

 

[Mink57]

I'm going what when you folks are telling me which is - We cannot be un-saved no matter what, our lifestyle can never cause us to be un-saved, God cannot see out sins anymore because Jesus covers us, we all continue to sin even after getting saved, and all our future sins are already forgiven.

If all this is true, then it doesn't matter if we sin or not because no matter we can't lose our salvation right?

Or is my coworker right and we CAN lose out salvation?

Which is it??? That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

We CAN lose our salvation. Salvation is ONLY achieved through repentance. That is, turning away from sin in the first place.

The initiation into Christianity is to recognize our sinful life...repent...ask for forgiveness...and live the life that Christ intends us to live...

...NOT to keep on sinning AFTER the fact.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

We CAN lose our salvation. Salvation is ONLY achieved through repentance. That is, turning away from sin in the first place.

The initiation into Christianity is to recognize our sinful life...repent...ask for forgiveness...and live the life that Christ intends us to live...

...NOT to keep on sinning AFTER the fact.

So you think eternal security teaching is false teaching then?

And salvation is not by faith alone?

 

[Mink57]

So you think eternal security teaching is false teaching then?

And salvation is not by faith alone?

The way some people teach it/believe it...YES.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Faith alone is wrong?

What is it was have to do in order to be saved other than to believe?

 

[Lambano]

His big problem seems to be my hot girlfriend spending the night at my house sometimes and yes we have sex and we also smoke weed sometimes which shouldn't be a big deal since Jesus got drunk on wine with those people I heard about. It's not like I'm a criminal and I don't treat others bad or anything.

Dan, I'm trying to decide if you're for real, or just trying to make a point about OSAS and/or Sola Fide.

Oh well.

Assuming you are for real, I do want you to trust Jesus. I also want to make sure it's clear that saved or not saved, you, me, and everyone on this forum will be held accountable for the moral choices we make in this life.