I actually didn't realize this was the Bible Study forum because I pay no attention.
That being said, my posts raise the question, "What should a rational, biblical Christian believe?"
An excellent topic for discussion….
1. What every major branch of Christianity has always taught and believed and is supported by a veritable mountain of actual human experience among believers and nonbelievers alike;
The fact that it is supported by a veritable “mountain of actual human experience” as evidence among “believers and nonbelievers alike”, should raise some concerns. Why? Because the devil takes people in an opposite direction to God, whilst making them believe that they are all headed for heaven……
The one outstanding thing about Israel’s worship, based on the word of God through his prophets, is that it taught nothing that was even similar to what the pagan nations believed…..
1) Israel’s God was “one” (Deut 6:4) and they had a multitude of gods often grouped in triads.
2) There was no conscious existence after death as in the grave, (Sheol) the dead sleep, incapable of conscious thoughts, feelings or actions. (Eccl 9:5, 6, 10)
3) Since there was no immortal soul to suffer (suffering requires consciousness), they saw death as something that all sentient beings suffer. (Eccl 3:19-20) The Jews did not have a hell of eternal torment, but pagans certainly did. God does not copy the pagans….but the devil will often copy God in his deceptions.
It must be noted however that the Jews were notorious for abandoning the truth of God’s inspired word to serve the gods of the nations, even sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech (Jeremiah 7:31) ….something for which God punished them on numerous occasions. Bad leadership was always to blame because the Jews demanded a human king, rejecting Jehovah as their rightful Sovereign. Humans being prone to corruption when given power, it was not unanticipated…..but God allowed them to do as they wished so that they could experience the awful consequences of their flawed decisions.
Therefore what the Jews came to believe in later periods, bears little resemblance to God’s word, once they had adopted belief in “life after death” from the pagan Greeks.
or
2. A doctrine taught by eccentric denominations that distinguish themselves by having non-mainstream views, views that force their followers to relegate a veritable mountain of human experience to "demons."
Note the terminology used here…..”eccentric denominations” “having non mainstream views“ that apparently “force their followers to to relegate a veritable mountain of human experience to demons”.
Right away you declare your position, which is not open to any disagreement on your part.
Your eyes, ears and heart are therefore closed to anything that might challenge your views.
Is that ever a good position to be in? What if all the Jews in the first century were persuaded to treat Jesus and his followers with the kind of contempt that you say all Christians should have for those who appear to be ‘fringe dwellers’.….not the genuine article because they do not conform to majority view….
Do you see that history is repeating and it can only do that if we ignore the lessons from the past….and are therefore doomed to repeat them?
I think I'll go with #1. It's no big deal - a good Christian can certainly believe in soul sleep, but such a Christian (it seems to me) is forced to live in a fearful, demon-haunted world and to worship a rather tiny, ineffectual God.
That is your opinion and like all opinions it is based on what you want to believe is true. Reading that you believe that your experience came from those nearest and dearest, right away the heart is involved and the devil is ruthless in using our emotions to sway people over to his way of thinking.
William Lane Craig is one of the premier Christian philosophers and apologists of modern times. I don't agree with everything he says, but I'm pretty sure he's not possessed by demons. Here is his biblical analysis as to why the doctrine of soul sleep is false:
Dear William, Firstly, a big thanks to you for grappling with all sorts of challenging questions and for the help you have provided to many people (including myself) to overcome what the writer of the Hebrews calls the
www.reasonablefaith.org
WLC might be a renown “Christian philosopher and apologist of modern times”….but does that make his views correct?
Just reading through his claims right away sent me to the Bible to see what Isaiah wrote there in ch 14:9-11…..
WLC describes what he interprets from this passage directed to the King of Babylon….
“Ancient Israelites believed in some sort of ghostly existence after death in a place called Sheol.“
That straight away is nonsense. The original Jews or Israelites had no such belief from their scripture, as Solomon wrote in Eccl 9:5, 6, 10…..the dead are in a state of complete unconsciousness.
“The inhabitants of Sheol are not called “souls” or “spirits” in the Old Testament but “shades” (rephaim) (Job 26.5; Psalm 88.10; Proverbs 2.18; 9.18; Isaiah 14.9; 26.14, 19). They have a sort of shadowy existence as wraiths, diminished versions of themselves. Cut off from God, they cannot be said to be alive, physically or spiritually, but they nonetheless exist.“
Again this is nonsense…..
The “Rephaim” were a tall people or tribe. There is uncertainty as to the meaning and origin of the name. Likely, they were called Rephaim because of being descendants of a man named Raphah. At 2 Samuel 21:16 “ha·Ra·phahʹ“ (literally, the Raphah) seems to employ the father’s name to stand for the entire giant race.
Although some descriptions of Sheol, (Eccl 9:5,6,10) preclude a conscious life of the
rephaim, other passages give a fuller description. An especially dramatic portrayal of the state of the denizens of Sheol is given in Isaiah’s taunt of the King of Babylon as in Isa 14:9-11. It is entirely figurative, not literal, or it argues with what the entirety of scripture teaches about the condition of the dead.
O’Darby said:
Obviously, when consciousness after death is and always has been believed by every major branch of Christianity and the biblical basis for this is explained by someone of the stature of William Lane Craig, it is NONSENSE to suggest that soul sleep is the only biblical position.
Putting your trust in people who promote themselves as so called experts in Biblical interpretation is playing right into the hands of the devil. Human egos are his playground….he laughs at the ease with which he beguiles these puffed up individuals, and the accolades they receive from others.….and in doing so gains all their followers. Pick your scholars…there are so many of them, all with different opinions….and views….who is right? How do you decide? Are your ears being tickled? (2 Tim 4:3-4)
Do you really know the origins of Christendom and her many denominations? Anyone who clings to anything that comes from the original apostasy foretold by Jesus and his apostles, is being led down the super highway to death…..(Matt 7:13-14) “Few” are found on the “cramped and narrow“ road to life…..there is a reason why the majority are not traveling the right road…..the devil gives them what they want to hear, not the God honest and often confronting truth that is contained in his word.
A convenient lie is chosen over an inconvenient truth….it has been that way since Eden.
