When and why will God end our world?

[marks]

Strange flesh because they wanted to have sex with Lot's guests, who were angels. Not strange flesh because they thought Lot's guests were angels:

Genesis 19
5 And they called to Lot, and said to him, Where are the men which came in to you this night? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.

It's in the word "heteros". Flesh of a different kind.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Genesis 23
17 Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord God.

Job 1
6 And a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD. And Satan also came among them.

He came among them to accuse Job:

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death.

Even in the days of Job, the sons of God (humans) were appearing before God. We are not told where - whether before an altar or something else.

I meant regarding "sons of God". We should show every place where the expression appears, along with sufficient context to determine how it is being used.

Some will appear very specific, and some less so. We should compare the contexts for specificity, and use the explicit to interpret the implicit.

And to use parallel passages to show additional information to refine our understandings. I'm not talking about building some line of reasons, that comes later.

Were you interested in that?

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

I meant regarding "sons of God". We should show every place where the expression appears, along with sufficient context to determine how it is being used.

Some will appear very specific, and some less so. We should compare the contexts for specificity, and use the explicit to interpret the implicit.

And to use parallel passages to show additional information to refine our understandings. I'm not talking about building some line of reasons, that comes later.

Were you interested in that?

Much love!

I've done that. Decades ago. Your turn.

I'll give you a shortcut:

Genesis 6
2 the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves from all whom they chose.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them, they were mighty men who existed of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6
6 And a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD. And Satan also came among them.
7 And the LORD said to Satan, From where do you come? Then Satan answered the LORD and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

PS: Where was it that Job had been?

Job 2
1 And it happened that a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD. And Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
2 And the LORD said to Satan, From where do you come? And Satan answered the LORD and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Exodus 23
17 Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord God.

Job 1
6 And a day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD. And Satan also came among them.

He came among them to accuse Job:

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death.

All Job 1:6-7 and 2:1-2 shows is that even in the days of Job, the sons of God (humans) were appearing before God. We are not told where - whether before an altar or something else.

Job 38
4 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding!
5 Who has set its measurements, for you know? Or who has stretched the line on it?
6 On what are its bases sunk, or who cast its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Only Christ is said in Genesis 1:1-3 and John 1:1-3 to have been present at the time of God's creation - and both morning star and ben elohiym are in the singular in Job 38:7.

Every other reference to "sons of God" in the entire Bible is referring to humans.

= No proof whatseover for the eisegesis of reading "fallen angels" into the mentioned verses.

 

[marks]

I've done that. Decades ago. Your turn.

I'll give you a shortcut:

Um . . . you're still doing it. Just start with the concordance, if you need it, and stay with that for the first step.

 

[Zao is life]

Um . . . you're still doing it. Just start with the concordance, if you need it, and stay with that for the first step.

It's your turn. List all the verses in the Bible where the term "sons of God" appears.

@marks You're not winning the argument until you produce verses where you do not have to practice eisegesis to read angels or "fallen angels" into the term "sons of God".

 

[marks]

It's your turn. List all the verses in the Bible where the term "sons of God" appears.

@marks You're not winning the argument until you produce verses where you do not have to practice eisegesis to read angels or "fallen angels" into the term "sons of God".

OK. What I was asking was if you want to do this study together. You've continued as adversarial, and I'm not interested in that sort of study. I'm not so much trying to prove a point to you, but I am hoping to show you there is more to it than what you see.

What I'm seeing is that you are quite convinced, and I'm not interesting in a purely academic debate with someone who just wants to shred my presentation.

I've given you the Jude passage, and shown by it's own words what it means. Refute that if you want something to do. It's stand alone, really, it says what it says.

Angels and humans, fornicating together.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

OK. What I was asking was if you want to do this study together. You've continued as adversarial, and I'm not interested in that sort of study. I'm not so much trying to prove a point to you, but I am hoping to show you there is more to it than what you see.

What I'm seeing is that you are quite convinced, and I'm not interesting in a purely academic debate with someone who just wants to shred my presentation.

I've given you the Jude passage, and shown by it's own words what it means. Refute that if you want something to do. It's stand alone, really, it says what it says.

Angels and humans, fornicating together. Failure to see that in the passage shows, to me, a lack of familiarity with the language per

Much love!

Well you continue to have fun with that thought. All I asked was that you show where "sons of God" beyond dispute refers to angels or fallen angels. It's not academic, it's simple and straight-forward.

 

[marks]

Well you continue to have fun with that thought.

You boldly declare my presentation from Jude to be wrong, yet you don't show how, or from the words, what it really means. Shall I continue to exegete passages so you can just make your evidence free declarations of eisegesis? Why would I do that?

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

OK. What I was asking was if you want to do this study together. You've continued as adversarial, and I'm not interested in that sort of study. I'm not so much trying to prove a point to you, but I am hoping to show you there is more to it than what you see.

What I'm seeing is that you are quite convinced, and I'm not interesting in a purely academic debate with someone who just wants to shred my presentation.

I've given you the Jude passage, and shown by it's own words what it means. Refute that if you want something to do. It's stand alone, really, it says what it says.

Angels and humans, fornicating together.

Much love!

You can't do the study together on your terms. Then it's not "together".All I asked was that you show where "sons of God" beyond dispute refers to angels or fallen angels. It's not academic, it's simple and straight-forward. So you continue to have fun with that thought about angels and humans.

 

[Zao is life]

You boldly declare my presentation from Jude to be wrong, yet you don't show how, or from the words, what it really means. Shall I continue to exegete passages so you can just make your evidence free declarations of eisegesis? Why would I do that?

Much love!

You can't do the study together on your terms. Then it's not "together". All I asked was that you show where "sons of God" beyond dispute refers to angels or fallen angels. It's not academic, it's simple and straight-forward. Doing a word-search on the word heteros is only taking you into the New Testament and has nothing to do with whether or not the term sons of God refers to angels or fallen angels. Nothing, Zero. Nada to do with it.

So you continue to have fun with that thought about angels and humans.

 

[marks]

You can't do the study together on your terms. Then it's not "together".All I asked was that you show where "sons of God" beyond dispute refers to angels or fallen angels. It's not academic, it's simple and straight-forward. So you continue to have fun with that thought about angels and humans.

Check Jude. Tell me what it means, exegetically, as I've done.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

@marks

Jude 1
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other (heteros) flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.

[*StrongsGreek*]
02087
ἕτερος héteros, het'-er-os
of uncertain affinity;
(an-, the) other or different:--altered, else, next (day), one, (an-)other, some, strange.

Matthew 6:24
24 No one can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one and love the other (héteros), or else he will hold to the one and despise the other (héteros). You cannot serve God and mammon.

Matthew 8:21
21 And another (héteros) of His disciples said to him, Lord, allow me first to go and bury my father.

Matthew 16:14
14 And they said, Some say, John the Baptist; some, Elijah; and others (héteros), Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.

Your so-called "study" that you wanted to do on the word heteros is pointless.

Just provide a list of where the term "sons of God" appears in the Bible where it refers unambiguously and beyond dispute to angels or fallen angels, without the need to practice eisegesis to read such an interpretation into it.

 

[marks]

Your so-called "study" that you wanted to do on the word heteros is pointless.

I didn't say a word study on heteros.

[*StrongsGreek*]
02087
ἕτερος héteros, het'-er-os
of uncertain affinity;
(an-, the) other or different:--altered, else, next (day), one, (an-)other, some, strange.

But now that you know what it means . . . go back to Jude.

Exegete Jude.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Check Jude. Tell me what it means, exegetically, as I've done.

Much love!

Jude 1
6 And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.

What Jude spoke about in verse 6 is not spoken about anywhere in the Bible - but fallen angels impregnating human women is spoken about in the spurious book of Enoch, where it is said to have occurred in the days of Noah.

The second event was long, long after the flood.

You cannot read - sorry - you can if you choose to take that sort of liberty with the scripture - read Enoch's account into the Biblical account.

But you should also check wherever the term "sons of God" appears in the Bible and make sure it appears at least once unambiguously and beyond dispute in reference to angels and not humans.

Jude 1
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other (heteros) flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.

[*StrongsGreek*]
02087
ἕτερος héteros, het'-er-os
of uncertain affinity;
(an-, the) other or different:--altered, else, next (day), one, (an-)other, some, strange.

Matthew 6:24
24 No one can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one and love the other (héteros), or else he will hold to the one and despise the other (héteros). You cannot serve God and mammon.

Matthew 8:21
21 And another (héteros) of His disciples said to him, Lord, allow me first to go and bury my father.

Matthew 16:14
14 And they said, Some say, John the Baptist; some, Elijah; and others (héteros), Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.

Your so-called "study" that you wanted to do on the word heteros is pointless.

Just provide a list of where the term "sons of God" appears in the Bible where it refers unambiguously and beyond dispute to angels or fallen angels, without the need to practice eisegesis to read such an interpretation into it.

 

[marks]

Jude 1
6 And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.

What Jude spoke about in verse 6 is not spoken about anywhere in the Bible - but fallen angels impregnating human women is spoken about in the spurious book of Enoch, where it is said to have occurred in the days of Noah.

The second event was long, long after the flood.

You cannot read - sorry - you can if you choose to take that sort of liber

This isn't an exegesis. That's where you show what the verses themselves say very specifically by looking at the words and grammar.

And Ad Hominems, like any other Logical Fallacy, don't help to make your case. It shows the weakness you perceive in it, as you have to resort to such things.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Much love!

OK throwing scriptures together that do not belong together to prove your point is very scholarly (to many, maybe, but not to me).

What Paul said has nothing to do with Jude 1:6-7. The only reason why you keep doing this is because you are reading an interpretation into the text that it does not contain.

 

[marks]

OK throwing scriptures together that do not belong together to prove your point is very scholarly (to many, maybe, but not to me).

What Paul said has nothing to do with Jude 1:6-7. The only reason why you keep doing this is because you are reading an interpretation into the text that it does not contain.

Show the interpretation of the Jude passage.

Paul told us there are different kinds of flesh between celestial and terrestrial beings. Jude speaks of the celestial fornicating with the different kind, ergo, terrestrial.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

@marks

Where is my list of scriptures where the term "sons of God" appears?

Waiting ..

 

[marks]

OK throwing scriptures together that do not belong together to prove your point is very scholarly (to many, maybe, but not to me).

The scholarly approach would be, I think, to take these verses word by word, and determine exactly what each word means in its syntax and context. Having determine the meaning and use of each word, clearly identify the clauses, again, using context and syntax, and what those clauses are saying. Then we progress to the sentences, then paragraphs, and so on. Once we've completed that, it's a pretty good bet we're going to know what the passage is telling us.

Much love!