Gosh! Who has been repeatedly telling us how many endless problems they experience in their personal lives all the time?
When Christians do Satan's Work
- Thread starter Soverign Grace
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1 Timothy 3:6
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
New or recent implies immaturity. Babes in Christ still on the milk of the word. Even a church goer from birth, someone in their 40s now, can be immature in the faith and be overly self-assured of their own authority in spiritual matters if they manage to get into positions of leadership within a congregation.
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
New or recent implies immaturity. Babes in Christ still on the milk of the word. Even a church goer from birth, someone in their 40s now, can be immature in the faith and be overly self-assured of their own authority in spiritual matters if they manage to get into positions of leadership within a congregation.
Our sins do unfortunately seem to spread like a stone thrown into a pond with an ever-growing circle. I hope that it's enough for all of us - and I hope that it stays in my heart - how much our sins effect others. And you're right, that if someone is not our brother or sister they will become known in time. What you stated is Scriptural. Sometimes the words of others can hurt and sting but it's encouraging - more than you know - when our true brethren speak words that lift the spirit and minister at a needed time and I thank you for that. I'm glad that you mentioned humility: that's something that I'm going to read and listen to a sermon on. After a period of backsliding I've been growing again. I think that's something that God puts a priority on.
James 4:10
“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
Philippians 3:18
“(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:”
Matthew 15:18
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
I'm encouraged by your "Much love!!!" It's so good to come around other believers to receive love. These are times when I truly feel the Spirit of God at work and have a foretaste of heaven and meeting those whose paths crossed ours on our way to glory.
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It says that sin shall not have dominion over us. We are dead to sin. Dead to the flesh. Dead to the world. All dead to us. Dead dead dead.
So we don't have to sin. Ever.
Much love!
mark
Oh my you sound like me - the same exact thing happened. I was left to stumble through everything and it was very hard. I want to start a ministry in church - I've wanted to do it for years because of my harsh experiences. There were no safeguards, no signposts - I made my way through the murky water of name it and claim it TV pastors, the "send in your seed faith gift today to be blessed" and all the false teachers out there - the wolves in sheep clothing. I feel that my family was lucky though because I went through it before them and could guide them. One of my family members attended a false preacher's church and I was able to warn them. It's such a precarious walk early on. We need to come up with some kind of new believer packet where we can put together a packet of books/ booklets to steer the new believer. This has been on my heart for years - ever since I had such a difficult time; I just never put it into action.
I think that's called Reaction Formation, the person who is secretly a thief is the loudest decrier against thievery.
Those who have the least self-control are the most vehement that we must keep the law, that sort of thing.
Much love!
mark
In my case I believe addictions and compulsions were brought about by childhood abuse traumas. And trust me - I hid!
In my case freedom came as God led me to truth.
Much love!
mark
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I've seen this topic only lightly taught in the churches I've been in.
I see things as that there is the mind of the flesh, Old Mark, and the mind of Christ, New Mark. Old and New Mark think in the same voice, since Old Mark used to be me, but New Mark is now me.
When thoughts roll through my head, all sound like me. But not all sound like Jesus. The ones that don't aren't New Mark, they are Old Mark. Those are to be denied - taken captive to obey Christ.
We have the Bible to teach us who God made us when He re-birthed us. The Bible identifies what is New Me, and what is Old Me.
We have to remember that not all we think and say and do is from the New Man. Anytime the Old Man tries to get their sway over what our hands are doing, or what our eyes are doing, or what our mind is doing, we have to compare what we do with Scripture, and remember that the parts that don't match we don't have to do.
And if we remember that God rejoices over us to give us the abundant life He promised, that He puts His whole heart into what He does for us, then we know that the things of the Old Man aren't even what we want, their are just the deceiptful lusts of the flesh.
And we are free!! Free to deny the death of the works of the flesh, and free to live with God!
Much love!
Mark
That is very well put. Our sin nature is still there tempting us and I read that "Satan dogs the steps of the Saints." We deal with both our Adamic nature and the evil one. I read or listened to a sermon by Charles Stanley one time about the need to stay on guard when we're tired. I forget the remainder of the sermon but recall just that one warning. He gave a list of times when we're more vulnerable to sin. I think that it's something good to remember and I'd like to find the sermon. We know how expensive sin can be so it is wise to be aware as you stated, that we will be tempted until the day we die.
I've read that some things can come in during childhood. I recently read a book by Pastor Don Basham: "Deliver us from Evil." He told the account of how he had a demon of fear enter when his brother brought him to a horror movie. He had such fear that it somehow opened his spirit. It's a mystery but a cautionary tale since most of us don't get through childhood unscathed.
I'm glad that you shared that because I haven't seen it either. I'm going to bring that up in bible study and tell the pastor that others haven't seen it taught much either and that I think that it's a topic that he should have a sermon on.
That's a good way to put it: the thoughts in our head sound alike but are from the old or new nature.
I am so blessed by your expressions: "Much love!" I hope that you never stop ending your paragraphs like that. Sometimes the world beats up on us and it's encouraging to see an expression of Christian love.
@Soverign Grace
You mentioned "deliver us from evil".
This is from the prayer Jesus taught, right?
The full line is, I think, Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Temptation is from the Greek Peirasmos, to put to the test.
Temptations are allowed into our lives by God to test us. The true are proven true. Each testing contains it's own way out, Corinthians 10. This "way out" is from a word that comes from a safe haven from the sea. The destination the ship docks in to escape the storm.
So every temptation is an opportunity for the New Man to assert superiority over the Old Man. A contrary circumstance comes, and the Old Man wants to rebel. The New Man can endure, and do good. God's intent is that we master the situation according to His way. In so doing, we gain the experience of mastery over sin, and we learn we can do it.
We don't like to be in contrary circumstances, so we pray, don't lead us into these testings, just deliver us from the evil! That's my prayer! But Father knows best.
Much love!
Mark
You mentioned "deliver us from evil".
This is from the prayer Jesus taught, right?
The full line is, I think, Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Temptation is from the Greek Peirasmos, to put to the test.
Temptations are allowed into our lives by God to test us. The true are proven true. Each testing contains it's own way out, Corinthians 10. This "way out" is from a word that comes from a safe haven from the sea. The destination the ship docks in to escape the storm.
So every temptation is an opportunity for the New Man to assert superiority over the Old Man. A contrary circumstance comes, and the Old Man wants to rebel. The New Man can endure, and do good. God's intent is that we master the situation according to His way. In so doing, we gain the experience of mastery over sin, and we learn we can do it.
We don't like to be in contrary circumstances, so we pray, don't lead us into these testings, just deliver us from the evil! That's my prayer! But Father knows best.
Much love!
Mark
Because the theology the are espousing here seems to be very much of that camp. And rather than just assuming, I thought it prudent to just ask you.
It is very sad. We attended a legalistic church that my husband ended up pulling us out of. I have never met such judgmental people. You could see it, not so much in what they said but in a look, a glance, a snub, a whisper, sometimes with what 'isn't' said as much as what is said. Sometimes we can sin with a look. We can sin by withholding information - very grievously. We have to realize that sin comes in many forms.
After we left the church one of our neighbors told us that the pastor's wife killed herself. It was so devastating but I don't blame her. If I was forced into those circumstances I would look for an escape too. I just wish that she would have reached out to those who weren't firmly entrenched in the church and that judgmentalism/ legalism.
What disturbed me the most is that even after that I don't believe the harsh, judgmental people in that church ever changed. Christians have to realize how much we affect one another and take care that we don't wound the sensitive spirit of another. This is something that I am doing a study on. I'm sometimes shocked and dismayed by the outbreak of sin and how other believers sometimes jump aboard. That church was one of the worst examples I've had of widespread, accepted "respectable" sin in the church. We went to another church after that was loosey goosey. That church was equally bad with a very corrupt family that owned the church. I saw how brainwashed Christians could be. The family employed a number of people in the town and thereby had a number of sycophants who looked the other way when the family committed overtly sinful behavior. I had heard bad things about the family and was very wary of them. We were cheated by them and they harmed a lot of people. Many in the town turned against them but not before hurting a lot of people. "Judgement shall begin with the house of God" is something that they somehow thought they would escape. I wish that we had never stepped foot in that church because of the horrible things that went on there. I sat at my friends kitchen table and cried because they hurt a family member. I saw what a true friend looks like because she cried with me. Somehow just having someone be so moved by your tears that they cry with you comforted me like nothing else anyone could say.
She predicted a "scandal" would come out of that church. Her words were prophetic. The corrupt family had nationwide coverage for something crooked they did. They were shamed nationally but are such ignorant people they still run a church. My father thought it was a front for stealing donations, and knowing that family I think my father was right on the money.
I was just wondering if there was something in particular you had in mind. I appreciate you asking instead of assuming. Was it something I said?
Much love!
Mark
Pretty much everything you've said on here as extremely strong OSAS undertones. Hence the question.
I see.
I was wondering if it was the part about proving the true to be true. Which would suggest that there are true, and there are false. Which I believe to be true. Not the false. About the true and false. It's true.
OK, seriously, yes, I believe that we are born children of God, and nothing makes us "unborn".
Much love!
mark
Over here there are more things done now in many churches, but I am not so sure much is said about spiritual warfare - also I thankfully did not get embroiled with TV evangelist - didn't have them back then - although I see plenty of them on Christian to now !
Mind you not all are bad or wrong, just the ones asking for money to recieve blessings. I tend to stick to revelation tv. They give many things out for free - always a good sign .
Well it says that the Lord can and does use our experiences for the benefit of others who may go through the same thing - so , if it's on your heart, go for it xxx
Rita
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