When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[ScottA]

There are many verses which indicate hell is located in the center of the earth:

(Mt 12:40) “So shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”
(Eph 4:9) “(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?” (Also see: Ps 63:9)
(Amos 9:2) “Though they dig into hell”
(Isa 14:9) “Hell from beneath” (Also see: Prov 15:24)
(Isa 14:15) “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
(Ezek 31:16) “I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit”
(Ezek 31:17) “They also went down into hell with him” (Also see: Ezek 32:27)
(2 Pet 2:4) For God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell”
(Rev 5:3) “Under the earth”

Those all are simply elaborations of the fact that:

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
​

All of which speaks of the grave. Which is to say, the unsaved only live in the flesh, which ends in death.

 

[JunChosen]

Those all are simply elaborations of the fact that:
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
All of which speaks of the grave. Which is to say, the unsaved only live in the flesh, which ends in death.

How can you reconcile Ecclesiastes 12:7 with Psalm 16:10?

To God Be The Glory

 

[ScottA]

How can you reconcile Ecclesiastes 12:7 with Psalm 16:10?

To God Be The Glory

Ecclesiastes 12:7 accounts for both--both the flesh and the Spirit. Which Jesus clarified to mean that we must also be born [again] of the spirit of God...which then returns "to God who gave it."

 

[Truth7t7]

Is the lake of fire on the new earth?

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[JunChosen]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 accounts for both--both the flesh and the Spirit. Which Jesus clarified to mean that we must also be born [again] of the spirit of God...which then returns "to God who gave it."

I concur only because of what 2 Corinthians 5:8 reads:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

To God Be The Glory

 

[Marilyn C]

In Love

Marilyn not one word below states "National Israel" will be ruling on this earth over nations, it states "Nations" and "Kings" in the plural, them which are saved, "The Righteous""

Marilyn perhaps you should review Revelation 21:1 below, this earth we are presently in will be gone, passed away, it's a New Earth

The scripture below shows nothing more than the righteous saved in the Eternal New Jerusalem

Revelations 21:24KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Revelation 21:1KJV
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

That`s fine presenting what you know. I did realise that Israel is not mentioned in Rev. 21: 24, however I was including it to show that kings and people are on the new earth. They are separate from those in the New Jerusalem and only the kings will be able to go into the city.

As to Israel ruling the nations that is promised throughout the OT. (2 Sam. 7: 16)

Now you seem to have missed Rev. 3: 21, and Heb. 11: 16.

 

[Marilyn C]

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Isa. 66: 22 refers to the millennium.

Rev. 22: 14 - 15 is the NHNE.

Also if the Lake of fire (as you think) is outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, does that mean the believers are holed up in the city and can`t go out onto the New earth? And what about the nations ON the New earth? Are they in the Lake of fire?

Some errors in your thinking there, bro.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And how many Gods are there?

Jesus spirit dwells within us because the Holy Spirit who is God himself in within us thus the kingdom of God dwells in our bodies the temple of God

There is one god- but three distinct and separate persons! Jesus is in heaven, and God the spirit is who dwells in us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We Disagree

That seen below in scripture is the very same event in the future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the heavens, it's pretty simple

Let me make it clear that I fully believe in the "future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus" FROM heaven in case you didn't know that already.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Daniel 7:13KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Is Jesus coming to the Ancient of days to be brought before Him in Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7? No. In those verses, He is leaving the presence of the Ancient of days in heaven, not coming to Him and being brought before Him as it describes in Daniel 7:13. So, why are you (apparently) not taking that into consideration?

Jesus did come to the Ancient of days and was brought before Him when He ascended. Again, why are you (apparently) not taking that into consideration? What Daniel saw in Daniel 7:13-14, which was a new, separate vision from what he had seen previously, does not have to relate directly to what he saw before that, but it seems that you assume that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isa. 66: 22 refers to the millennium.

Rev. 22: 14 - 15 is the NHNE.

Isaiah 66:22 specifically refers to the NHNE, so why are you (seemingly) denying that? Or are you saying you think there will be 2 NHNEs?

 

[Marilyn C]

Isaiah 66:22 specifically refers to the NHNE, so why are you (seemingly) denying that? Or are you saying you think there will be 2 NHNEs?

Yes God says that He will make a NHNE (Isa. 65: 17, 66: 22) God is telling Israel of the future, but before that God will make Jerusalem a rejoicing. And that is in the millennium. We can see from the context following those scriptures that it is still the old earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Deleted

 

[Truth7t7]

Let me make it clear that I fully believe in the "future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus" FROM heaven in case you didn't know that already.

Is Jesus coming to the Ancient of days to be brought before Him in Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7? No. In those verses, He is leaving the presence of the Ancient of days in heaven, not coming to Him and being brought before Him as it describes in Daniel 7:13. So, why are you (apparently) not taking that into consideration?

Jesus did come to the Ancient of days and was brought before Him when He ascended. Again, why are you (apparently) not taking that into consideration? What Daniel saw in Daniel 7:13-14, which was a new, separate vision from what he had seen previously, does not have to relate directly to what he saw before that, but it seems that you assume that.

Thanks for the response, I have clearly explained my position, we disagree

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes God says that He will make a NHNE (Isa. 65: 17, 66: 22) God is telling Israel of the future, but before that God will make Jerusalem a rejoicing. And that is in the millennium. We can see from the context following those scriptures that it is still the old earth.

No such thing as a Millennium on this earth found in scripture, Isaiah chapters 65 & 66 represent the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

 

[Timtofly]

No such thing as a Millennium on this earth found in scripture, Isaiah chapters 65 & 66 represent the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

So eternal death and sin carry on into your opinion, the eternal future of your human imagination?

 

[Marilyn C]

No such thing as a Millennium on this earth found in scripture, Isaiah chapters 65 & 66 represent the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

mmmm `For a child shall DIE one hundred years old....` (Isa. 65: 20 b)

You may want to think again.

 

[Truth7t7]

mmmm `For a child shall DIE one hundred years old....` (Isa. 65: 20 b)

You may want to think again.

More Like You Might Want To Think Again, A Child Dying At 100 Years Is "Figurative" Of Eternal Speech To The Human Mind Of The Eternal

Isaiah 65:18-20 & Revelation 21:2-4 below are "Parallel" teachings of "New Jerusalem" in the New Heaven, And Earth

Isaiah 65:18-20KJV
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:2-4KJV
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Isaiah 65:17 below is screaming at you "Behold I Create New Heavens And Earth" and you give complete disregard to this fact before your eyes, "Why"?

Isaiah Chapters 11 & 65 Is The Very Same Place, The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth, Don't Be Deceived By Claims This Represents A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth

Same Wolf & Lamb Together, And Lion Eating Straw Like The Bullock/Ox, In The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth

(For, Behold, I Create New Heavens And A New Earth)

Isaiah 65:17-18 & 25KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 11:6-7KJV
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

 

[Marilyn C]

More Like You Might Want To Think Again, A Child Dying At 100 Years Is "Figurative" Of Eternal Speech To The Human Mind Of The Eternal

Isaiah 65:18-20 & Revelation 21:2-4 below are "Parallel" teachings of "New Jerusalem" in the New Heaven, And Earth

Isaiah 65:18-20KJV
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:2-4KJV
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Isaiah 65:17 below is screaming at you "Behold I Create New Heavens And Earth" and you give complete disregard to this fact before your eyes, "Why"?

Isaiah Chapters 11 & 65 Is The Very Same Place, The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth, Don't Be Deceived By Claims This Represents A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth

Same Wolf & Lamb Together, And Lion Eating Straw Like The Bullock/Ox, In The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth

(For, Behold, I Create New Heavens And A New Earth)

Isaiah 65:17-18 & 25KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 11:6-7KJV
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

God is saying what He will do in Israel`s future however BUT......BUT be glad....saying this is what He is doing BEFORE the NHNE.

Notice that the wolf, lion etc will not hurt ONLY `in all my holy mountain, ` NOT the whole world. (Isa. 65: 25)

 

[Truth7t7]

God is saying what He will do in Israel`s future however BUT......BUT be glad....saying this is what He is doing BEFORE the NHNE.

Notice that the wolf, lion etc will not hurt ONLY `in all my holy mountain, ` NOT the whole world. (Isa. 65: 25)

We Disagree, Isaiah chapters 65:17-24 represents the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

A 1,000 year Kingdom isn't found in scripture, Millennialist take the words "Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:4-6 and claim its a literal kingdom on this earth

Millennialist then run to the old testament, and use scripture that shows (The Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem such as Isaiah chapters 11 & 65 and claim it represents a millennial kingdom on earth "Wrong"

Sorta like pre-tribbers using verses that show the Lords second coming, and they claim it's a pre-trib rapture,with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 being a prime example

Millennialist claim Ezekiel chapters 40-46 represents a future Millennial Kingdom and temple, when it's nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel temple, built in 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity

 

[Marilyn C]

We Disagree, Isaiah chapters 65:17-24 represents the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

A 1,000 year Kingdom isn't found in scripture, Millennialist take the words "Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:4-6 and claim its a literal kingdom on this earth

Millennialist then run to the old testament, and use scripture that shows (The Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem such as Isaiah chapters 11 & 65 and claim it represents a millennial kingdom on earth "Wrong"

Sorta like pre-tribbers using verses that show the Lords second coming, and the claim it's a pre-trib rapture,with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 being a prime example

Millennialist claim Ezekiel chapters 40-46 represents a future Millennial Kingdom and temple, when it's nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel temple, built in 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity

God`s purpose is for Israel to rule over the nations of the world. He promised them this future and God will fulfill it.