When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[Spiritual Israelite]

I would like to ask a question.

If the Jews are still God's chosen people, why would God allow the temple to be destroyed both times?

What do you mean "both times"?

Are the Jews still his chosen? I don't know all that much about Judaism.

Thank you for helping me to understand.

Christians are God's chosen people.

Here is Paul writing to Christians and calling them God's chosen:

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your perspective is unbalanced.

He's still acclaimed as The Father of Church History.

His contributions to the Christian faith far outweigh his personal liabilities.

You need to find and exercise the appropriate amount of objectivity to rebalance your perspective.

And there's certainly no reason not to believe his account of the Judaean Christians.

Right. Should we discount the whole book of Proverbs because Solomon was a womanizer? Should we discount most of the book of Psalms because David was a murderer and a fornicator? Should we discount all of the letters written by Paul because he was the admitted chief of sinners?

I wonder when this guy thinks the temple buildings were destroyed, if not in 70 AD? Or maybe he thinks they are still there? LOL.

 

[Davidpt]

Obviously Paul doesn't agree with you.

Romans 1
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Can you point out in any of those passages where it ever says the end has come? We can't ignore that part in Matthew 24:14-----and then shall the end come.

 

[Davidpt]

What do you mean "both times"?

Meaning the 1st and 2nd temple, obviously.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Meaning the 1st and 2nd temple, obviously.

Let her answer for herself. I wasn't sure if she was talking about what happened in 70 AD and a future temple or what. It's probably the first and second temples, but I'll let her answer.

 

[covenantee]

Eusebius was a "Arian Heretic" and a persecutor of the Christian Church, he used Emperor Constantine to carry out punishment against Trinitarian Church Fathers

Wikipedia: Eusebius of Caesarea
Eusebius succeeded Agapius as Bishop of Caesarea soon after 313 and was called on by Arius who had been excommunicated by his bishop Alexander of Alexandria. An episcopal council in Caesarea pronounced Arius blameless.[38] Eusebius enjoyed the favor of the Emperor Constantine. Because of this he was called upon to present the creed of his own church to the 318 attendees of the Council of Nicaea in 325.[39] However, the anti-Arian creed from Palestine prevailed, becoming the basis for the Nicene Creed.[40]

The theological views of Arius, that taught the subordination of the Son to the Father, continued to be controversial. Eustathius of Antioch strongly opposed the growing influence of Origen's theology as the root of Arianism. Eusebius, an admirer of Origen, was reproached by Eustathius for deviating from the Nicene faith. Eusebius prevailed and Eustathius was deposed at a synod in Antioch.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria became a more powerful opponent and in 334 he was summoned before a synod in Caesarea (which he refused to attend). In the following year, he was again summoned before a synod in Tyre at which Eusebius of Caesarea presided. Athanasius, foreseeing the result, went to Constantinople to bring his cause before the Emperor. Constantine called the bishops to his court, among them Eusebius. Athanasius was condemned and exiled at the end of 335. Eusebius remained in the Emperor's favour throughout this time and more than once was exonerated with the explicit approval of the Emperor Constantine. After the Emperor's death (c. 337), Eusebius wrote the Life of Constantine, an important historical work because of eyewitness accounts and the use of primary sources.[41]

Unbalanced.

 

[covenantee]

Eusebius was...a persecutor of the Christian Church...

Where do you see that?

 

[covenantee]

Can you point out in any of those passages where it ever says the end has come? We can't ignore that part in Matthew 24:14-----and then shall the end come.

There are two types of ends in Matthew 24. The first is in verse 3, referring to the end of the world/age, i.e. Christ's future Second Coming. The Greek word is sunteleia.

The subsequent ends are in verses 6, 13, 14. They are a different Greek word, telos, and they refer to the end of OT Jerusalem and Israel in 70 AD.

 

[David in NJ]

There are two types of ends in Matthew 24. The first is in verse 3, referring to the end of the world/age, i.e. Christ's future Second Coming. The Greek word is sunteleia.

The subsequent ends are in verses 6, 13, 14. They are a different Greek word, telos, and they refer to the end of OT Jerusalem and Israel in 70 AD.

@Spiritual Israelite

@covenantee has provided more evidence of 'Dual Prophecy'

 

[covenantee]

@Spiritual Israelite

@covenantee has provided more evidence of 'Dual Prophecy'

Not entirely, bro.

"End" in verse 3 is already future, so it's not dual.

The other "ends" have been fulfilled in the past and will not be re-fulfilled in the future.

 

[David in NJ]

Not entirely, bro.

"End" in verse 3 is already future, so it's not dual.

The other "ends" have been fulfilled in the past and will not be re-fulfilled in the future.

More evidence of dual prophecy = Thank You

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Gospel, the Apostles writings and Revelation have within them 'CONTINUED' Prophecy = "until all things are fulfilled"

 

[covenantee]

More evidence of dual prophecy = Thank You

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Gospel, the Apostles writings and Revelation have within them 'CONTINUED' Prophecy = "until all things are fulfilled"

Christ completely fulfilled the Law and the Prophets at His First Coming.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[David in NJ]

Christ completely fulfilled the Law and the Prophets at His First Coming.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Christ completely fulfilled the Law and the Prophets at His First Coming.

Christ only fulfilled the Law & Prophets pertaining to His 1st Coming.
"all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

The Law and Prophets also SPEAK/PROPHECY of His Second Coming = unfulfilled prophecies until HE Returns

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

What do you mean "both times"?

The first and second temple were destroyed.

Christians are God's chosen people.

Here is Paul writing to Christians and calling them God's chosen:

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Jesus said he was sent only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and avoid the Gentiles. Matthew 10

Look to Matthew 15 to see that after his resurrection Jesus instructed his Apostles to go among the Gentiles.

The chosen of Jesus are those whom God leads into his grace. Be that Jew or Gentile.

 

[Truth7t7]

I wonder when this guy thinks the temple buildings were destroyed, if not in 70 AD? Or maybe he thinks they are still there? LOL.

Jesus Christ Is The Lord God Almighty

 

[Truth7t7]

Where do you see that?

Wikipedia: Eusebius of Caesarea
Eusebius succeeded Agapius as Bishop of Caesarea soon after 313 and was called on by Arius who had been excommunicated by his bishop Alexander of Alexandria. An episcopal council in Caesarea pronounced Arius blameless.[38] Eusebius enjoyed the favor of the Emperor Constantine. Because of this he was called upon to present the creed of his own church to the 318 attendees of the Council of Nicaea in 325.[39] However, the anti-Arian creed from Palestine prevailed, becoming the basis for the Nicene Creed.[40]

The theological views of Arius, that taught the subordination of the Son to the Father, continued to be controversial. Eustathius of Antioch strongly opposed the growing influence of Origen's theology as the root of Arianism. Eusebius, an admirer of Origen, was reproached by Eustathius for deviating from the Nicene faith. Eusebius prevailed and Eustathius was deposed at a synod in Antioch.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria became a more powerful opponent and in 334 he was summoned before a synod in Caesarea (which he refused to attend). In the following year, he was again summoned before a synod in Tyre at which Eusebius of Caesarea presided. Athanasius, foreseeing the result, went to Constantinople to bring his cause before the Emperor. Constantine called the bishops to his court, among them Eusebius. Athanasius was condemned and exiled at the end of 335. Eusebius remained in the Emperor's favour throughout this time and more than once was exonerated with the explicit approval of the Emperor Constantine. After the Emperor's death (c. 337), Eusebius wrote the Life of Constantine, an important historical work because of eyewitness accounts and the use of primary sources.[41]

 

[Timtofly]

It would have been too late for the Christians to flee if they had waited until the Roman army occupied the Temple.

Rather, they recognized Jesus' reference to the holy place to be city itself, specifically, its environs, as @grafted branch has shown.

This gave the Christians sufficient opportunity to flee.

The Christians all fled in 63BC when the Romans took over the authority of Palestine? The Roman armies stood in the Holy Place in 63 BC, even before Jesus was born. Are you saying that is what Jesus was talking about?

They had over 130 years to flee the area.

 

[covenantee]

The Christians all fled in 63BC when the Romans took over the authority of Palestine? The Roman armies stood in the Holy Place in 63 BC, even before Jesus was born. Are you saying that is what Jesus was talking about?

They had over 130 years to flee the area.

Have you told Jesus that His warning was 130 years late?

 

[covenantee]

Wikipedia: Eusebius of Caesarea
Eusebius succeeded Agapius as Bishop of Caesarea soon after 313 and was called on by Arius who had been excommunicated by his bishop Alexander of Alexandria. An episcopal council in Caesarea pronounced Arius blameless.[38] Eusebius enjoyed the favor of the Emperor Constantine. Because of this he was called upon to present the creed of his own church to the 318 attendees of the Council of Nicaea in 325.[39] However, the anti-Arian creed from Palestine prevailed, becoming the basis for the Nicene Creed.[40]

The theological views of Arius, that taught the subordination of the Son to the Father, continued to be controversial. Eustathius of Antioch strongly opposed the growing influence of Origen's theology as the root of Arianism. Eusebius, an admirer of Origen, was reproached by Eustathius for deviating from the Nicene faith. Eusebius prevailed and Eustathius was deposed at a synod in Antioch.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria became a more powerful opponent and in 334 he was summoned before a synod in Caesarea (which he refused to attend). In the following year, he was again summoned before a synod in Tyre at which Eusebius of Caesarea presided. Athanasius, foreseeing the result, went to Constantinople to bring his cause before the Emperor. Constantine called the bishops to his court, among them Eusebius. Athanasius was condemned and exiled at the end of 335. Eusebius remained in the Emperor's favour throughout this time and more than once was exonerated with the explicit approval of the Emperor Constantine. After the Emperor's death (c. 337), Eusebius wrote the Life of Constantine, an important historical work because of eyewitness accounts and the use of primary sources.[41]

There's not a hint of persecution in that description.

What are you smoking today?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Spiritual Israelite

@covenantee has provided more evidence of 'Dual Prophecy'

No, he did not. He is not saying that he thinks Matthew 24:9-14 will be fulfilled again. He thinks that passage was fulfilled in 70 AD only.