When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Spiritual Israelite

Here is @covenantee Post #548

My response is Post #549

Here is what he said:

There are two types of ends in Matthew 24. The first is in verse 3, referring to the end of the world/age, i.e. Christ's future Second Coming. The Greek word is sunteleia.

The subsequent ends are in verses 6, 13, 14. They are a different Greek word, telos, and they refer to the end of OT Jerusalem and Israel in 70 AD.

He was not saying that verses 6, 13, 14 have a dual fulfillment, he was saying he thinks those verses have a different context than the end of the age when Jesus comes. So, he sees those verses as only relating to 70 AD and not the end of the age.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

GREAT picture of yourself !!!

What if I did look like that? Are you so shallow that you make fun of how people look?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sorry bro; there is not the slightest hint of dual fulfillment in post 548.

Your presumption in post 549 is entirely your own.

@David in NJ And there is the final nail in the coffin of your false claim. You should run along and just let the adults talk.

 

[David in NJ]

Here is what he said:


He was not saying that verses 6, 13, 14 have a dual fulfillment, he was saying he thinks those verses have a different context than the end of the age when Jesus comes. So, he sees those verses as only relating to 70 AD and not the end of the age.

He is 100% CORRECT in saying there are "two types of ends" = DUAL PROPHECY = Matthew chapter 24

#1 the end of the 2nd Temple
#2 the END of this Age

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry bro; there is not the slightest hint of dual fulfillment in post 548.

Your presumption in post 549 is entirely your own.

Sorry bro,
JESUS only speaks TRUTH = Dual Prophecy TRUTH(when HE desires)

You 'wisely' agreed to that which is written = @covenantee says: "There are two types of ends in Matthew 24."

#1 the end of the 2nd Temple
#2 the END of this Age

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ And there is the final nail in the coffin of your false claim. You should run along and just let the adults talk.

How does it feel to be in the error coffin???

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He is 100% CORRECT in saying there are "two types of ends" = DUAL PROPHECY = Matthew chapter 24

#1 the end of the 2nd Temple
#2 the END of this Age

LOL. That's not dual fulfillments. He is not saying that any part of the Olivet discourse is fulfilled twice as you try to claim.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How does it feel to be in the error coffin???

You tell me. He has made it very clear that he does NOT believe in dual fulfillment and you are trying to act as if he does. As if he doesn't even know what he believes. That's ridiculous. Grow up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sorry bro,
JESUS only speaks TRUTH = Dual Prophecy TRUTH(when HE desires)

You 'wisely' agreed to that which is written = @covenantee says: "There are two types of ends in Matthew 24."

#1 the end of the 2nd Temple
#2 the END of this Age

But, in his view, the verses related to the end of the 2nd temple are completely fulfilled and the verses related to the end of this age are not fulfilled yet at all. Dual fulfillment is the idea that the same verses are fulfilled twice.

 

[Davidpt]

Here is what he said:


He was not saying that verses 6, 13, 14 have a dual fulfillment, he was saying he thinks those verses have a different context than the end of the age when Jesus comes. So, he sees those verses as only relating to 70 AD and not the end of the age.

I don't agree with his interpretation of verse 14 and 15. At least he doesn't have Jesus being all over the place like your interpretation does. Your interpretation has Jesus focusing on the end of this age in verse 14 then in verse 15 He is once again focusing on events not even relevant to verse 14. IOW, who cares what happened 2000 years ago if the topic of discussion at the time is the end of the age in verse 14? Jesus certainly didn't. But you care though, IOW, because of doctrinal bias, otherwise you wouldn't have Jesus being all over the place here to where He can't seem to make up His mind what He wants to focus on. Once again, as if 70 AD is still relevant as of verse 14. It would still be relevant if @covenantee was actually interpreting verse 14 correctly. Except he isn't.

It's bizarre. You are interpreting verse 14 correctly, @covenantee isn't. Yet you are both interpreting verses 15-21 in the same manner. IOW, since @covenantee is not interpreting verse 14 correctly but you are, you shouldn't then be interpreting verses 15-21 in the same manner as @covenantee, since you are not using sound hermeneutics in this case, while @covenantee is, except he is not interpreting verse 14 correctly. He at least knows one can't have verse 14 meaning 2000 thousand years later, then have verses 15-21 meaning 2000 years earlier, then that adding up to sound hermeneutics. His hermeneutics are sound in this case. Except it is all in vain since he is not interpreting verse 14 correctly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't agree with his interpretation of verse 14 and 15. At least he doesn't have Jesus being all over the place like your interpretation does.

This is completely beside the point of what was being talked about. Are you just stalking me and looking for an argument or what? Do you have any thoughts on what was actually being discussed, which was whether or not there are dual fulfillments of prophecy?

Your interpretation has Jesus focusing on the end of this age in verse 14 then in verse 15 He is once again focusing on events not even relevant to verse 14.

Is that not the same thing you do with Luke 21? You see Luke 21:8-19 as being related to things that happen before the second coming and then you see Luke 21:20-24 as being about 70 AD and then you see Him going back to talking about things related to the second coming again in Luke 21:25. How is that any different than how I see Matthew 24?

IOW, who cares what happened 2000 years ago if the topic of discussion at the time is the end of the age in verse 14? Jesus certainly didn't. But you care though, IOW, because of doctrinal bias, otherwise you wouldn't have Jesus being all over the place here to where He can't seem to make up His mind what He wants to focus on.

Do you not do the same thing with Luke 21?

Once again, as if 70 AD is still relevant as of verse 14. It would still be relevant if @covenantee was actually interpreting verse 14 correctly. Except he isn't.

That's like saying that Luke 21:20 has to refer to the same time period as Luke 21:19, but you don't believe that.

It's bizarre. You are interpreting verse 14 correctly, @covenantee isn't. Yet you are both interpreting verses 15-21 in the same manner.

I think that not seeing Matthew 24:15-21 and Luke 21:20-24a as parallel passages is bizarre, so at least he and I both avoid that bizarre manner of interpretation.

 

[David in NJ]

But, in his view, the verses related to the end of the 2nd temple are completely fulfilled and the verses related to the end of this age are not fulfilled yet at all. Dual fulfillment is the idea that the same verses are fulfilled twice.

BINGO

You acknowledge GOD'S TRUTH = AWESOME

Dual Prophecy means that GOD, who knows all things, Speaks of that which was fulfilled(destruction of 2nd Temple) which is
directly related to that which WILL BE.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BINGO

You acknowledge GOD'S TRUTH = AWESOME

Dual Prophecy means that GOD, who knows all things, Speaks of that which was fulfilled(destruction of 2nd Temple) which is
directly related to that which WILL BE.

LOL. So, you have decided to create your own definition of dual fulfillment of prophecy that no one else uses?

Do you or do you not believe that any verse or passage in the Olivet Discourse has more than one fulfillment? If so, which one(s)?

How about any other Bible prophecy?

 

[David in NJ]

LOL. So, you have decided to create your own definition of dual fulfillment of prophecy that no one else uses?

Do you or do you not believe that any verse or passage in the Olivet Discourse has more than one fulfillment? If so, which one(s)?

How about any other Bible prophecy?

GOD designed and implemented His Dual Prophecy.

Revelation/The Seven Churches = Has the words CHRIST Spoke concerning the seven churches, are they in the past and behind us?

 

[covenantee]

BINGO

You acknowledge GOD'S TRUTH = AWESOME

Dual Prophecy means that GOD, who knows all things, Speaks of that which was fulfilled(destruction of 2nd Temple) which is
directly related to that which WILL BE.

Are you saying that the 2nd Temple WILL BE destroyed again?

 

[covenantee]

Except it is all in vain since he is not interpreting verse 14 correctly.

Paul is interpreting it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

GOD designed and implemented His Dual Prophecy.

Revelation/The Seven Churches = Has the words CHRIST Spoke concerning the seven churches, are they in the past and behind us?

Please answer the question. Do you or do you not believe that any verse or passage in the Olivet Discourse has more than one fulfillment? If so, which one(s)?

 

[David in NJ]

Are you saying that the 2nd Temple WILL BE destroyed again?

Allow the Holy Spirit to be you Guide in the Holy Scriptures.

SEE from God's perspective, which are His infallible words of Truth.

2 Temples were destroyed.

No more need of a third physical building on earth.

Unrepentant Israel wants a third temple - they may get one - time will tell.

If they build one one, it will be for the Antichrist and it will be completely destroyed.

If they do not build one, there is another temple where the AoD will stand in - as per Revelation.

 

[David in NJ]

Please answer the question. Do you or do you not believe that any verse or passage in the Olivet Discourse has more than one fulfillment? If so, which one(s)?

YES

Now please answer my question.

Revelation/The Seven Churches = Has the words CHRIST Spoke concerning the seven churches, are they in the past and behind us?

Good Night @Spiritual Israelite and @covenantee

 

[covenantee]

Allow the Holy Spirit to be you Guide in the Holy Scriptures.

SEE from God's perspective, which are His infallible words of Truth.

2 Temples were destroyed.

No more need of a third physical building on earth.

Unrepentant Israel wants a third temple - they may get one - time will tell.

If they build one one, it will be for the Antichrist and it will be completely destroyed.

If they do not build one, there is another temple where the AoD will stand in - as per Revelation.

There's no re-created 2nd temple in your scenario.

Thus no dual fulfillment.

Please copy/paste a recognized definition of dual fulfillment from a recognized source today, and evidence from a recognized source in post-apostolic pre-1800 orthodox Christianity who espoused it.

Good night @David in NJ