When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ummm--aren't you bringing racism into this yourself by proposing that it means the end of the Jewish race? What does that even mean?

Why didn't you just end your post here and wait to find out instead of continuing on and wasting your time making a straw man argument?

Jesus was talking to Jews at that time, so that's why I think He might have been referring to them and their race in particular. But, I've said that I also think He may have been referring to the human race in general there. What I mean by the end of the Jewish race is that once Jesus comes then all believers will be changed to put on bodily immortality and all living unbelievers will be destroyed and then eternity is ushered and the judgment occurs with each person either inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God or being cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41). So, at that point, I believe there will be no races anymore. All who belong to Christ will all be literally one in the new heavens and new earth with no racial distinctions between us any longer. We will just be the human race of God's people all together on the new earth.

That there is only the Gentile race remaining after that?

Nope, that's not what I meant.

There are only Jews and Gentiles, right?

Of course. Gentiles are non-Jews. So, everyone is either a Jew or a non-Jew (Gentile).

If the Jewish race no longer exists at some point, that logically means the only race remaining is the Gentile race, since you didn't mention it also being the end of that race.

You are talking from your Premil temporal perspective and not thinking of the eternal perspective that I was thinking of. Do you think people will be divided into races like we are now for eternity?

Race couldn't possibly have anything to do with it one way or the other. But the world of the ungodly can. Meaning that is what passes away which includes both bad Jews and bad Gentiles, and not just bad Jews only.

Yes, all of them will pass away and I'm not saying otherwise. If the intention is to say which people will pass away in terms of being killed, then I would say that "this generation" refers only to bad or evil people in general. Which is what I argue about "this generation" that Jesus describes in Matthew 23:36 because He refers to them as being vipers, hypocrites and murderers. But, I'm not sure that Matthew 24:34 has that same context or not in terms of who are part of "this generation" that will pass away when Jesus returns. It's possible.

So, tell me how you interpret Matthew 24:34 then. What I'm arguing, regardless of how exactly we define "this generation", is that it relates to Christ's return. This generation will pass away when He returns. And I'm arguing that Matthew 24:34 relates directly to Matthew 24:30-31, which covenantee does not believe. Would you agree that Matthew 24:34 relates directly to Matthew 24:30-31 in terms of this generation passing away when Jesus returns?

 

[Zao is life]

This is an etymological fallacy because a word’s root doesn’t necessarily define how a word is used:

• “The Etymological Fallacy occurs whenever someone falsely assumes that the meaning of a word can be discovered from its etymology or origins. Example: The word “vise” comes from the Latin “that which winds,” so it means anything that winds. Since a hurricane winds around its own eye, it is a vise.” (Fallacies | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy).

Genea is overwhelmingly used to refer to a group of people living at the same time in the Septuagint and the NT.

While genea and genos share the same root word, their usages are distinct.

Jesus was often talking about the 1st century generation when He said "this generation", but it's a logical fallacy to assume that every time Jesus said "this generation", He was talking about the 1st century generation, because there is no difference in meaning between the English words "this generation", "that generation", "the generation/s", "ancient generations" etc, and the Greek words that they are translated from:

Talking about the generation in the wilderness during the days of Moses:

Hebrews 3:10: "Therefore I was grieved with that generation [o genea] and said, They always err in their heart, and they have not known My ways."

Many generations:

Colossians 1:26:
".. the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations [o genea], but now has been revealed to His saints."

All generations:

Ephesians 3:21 "To him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations [o genea], to the ages of the ages. Amen."

Many generations:

Acts 15:21:
"For Moses from ancient generations [genea] has those in every city proclaiming him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Acts 14:16
"who in past generations [genea] allowed all nations to walk in their own ways."

One generation:

Acts 13:36:

"For after he had served his own generation [genea] by the will of God, David fell asleep and was added to his fathers and saw corruption."

The above verses are all talking about the generation that is, or the generations that are being referred to in whichever verses the words appear.

Jesus' own generation:

Luke 17:25:
"But first He must suffer many things and be rejected of this [houtos] the generation [o genea].

Luke 11:31:
"The queen of the south shall rise up in the Judgment with the men of this [houtos] the generation [o genea] and condemn them. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon. And behold, One greater than Solomon is here."

The generation that will see the end of the age:

Luke 21:31-32:
"So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, The same [houtos] the generation [o genea] shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled."

The context of the surrounding passage decides what time or period in history it's referring to, and which generation is being spoken about. In the case of Luke 21:31-32, it's referring to the generation that will see the signs of the end of the Age that Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse.​

 

[Zao is life]

There's no need to explain that you don't agree with everything he believes. He is an Amill and you are a Premill, so you obviously don't agree on everything.

My main point was that I was not taking sides in your and TribulationSigns personal argument. Unfortunately it was part of your interaction in your disagreement about this so I mentioned that I was agreeing with the theology about this that he was expressing but not anything else.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus was often talking about the 1st century generation when He said "this generation", but it's a logical fallacy to assume that every time Jesus said "this generation", He was talking about the 1st century generation, because there is no difference in meaning between the English words "this generation", "that generation", "the generation/s", "ancient generations" etc, and the Greek words that they are translated from:

Talking about the generation in the wilderness during the days of Moses:

Hebrews 3:10: "Therefore I was grieved with that generation [o genea] and said, They always err in their heart, and they have not known My ways."

Many generations:

Colossians 1:26:
".. the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations [o genea], but now has been revealed to His saints."

All generations:

Ephesians 3:21 "To him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations [o genea], to the ages of the ages. Amen."

Many generations:

Acts 15:21:
"For Moses from ancient generations [genea] has those in every city proclaiming him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Acts 14:16
"who in past generations [genea] allowed all nations to walk in their own ways."

One generation:

Acts 13:36:

"For after he had served his own generation [genea] by the will of God, David fell asleep and was added to his fathers and saw corruption."

The above verses are all talking about the generation that is, or the generations that are being referred to in whichever verses the words appear.

Jesus' own generation:

Luke 17:25:
"But first He must suffer many things and be rejected of this [houtos] the generation [o genea].

Luke 11:31:
"The queen of the south shall rise up in the Judgment with the men of this [houtos] the generation [o genea] and condemn them. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon. And behold, One greater than Solomon is here."

The generation that will see the end of the age:

Luke 21:31-32:
"So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, The same [houtos] the generation [o genea] shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled."

The context of the surrounding passage decides what time or period in history it's referring to, and which generation is being spoken about. In the case of Luke 21:31-32, it's referring to the generation that will see the signs of the end of the Age that Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse.​

Now, this is very interesting. I had not considered that the Greek word "houtos" can mean "the same" and not just "this". But, after looking it up, I see that is indeed the case. For example, it's translated as "the same" in Matthew 24:13.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same (houtos) shall be saved.

Normally, I would have thought you were turning "this generation" into "that generation", but if that word can mean "the same" instead of "this", then you may very well have a point here. So, your view is that after Jesus describes those who would see the things happening which would indicate that the kingdom of God is near, that same generation of people who would see those things happening happening will not pass away until all those things fulfilled. That's not talking about those people passing away, but just their generation passing away at that point.

That's a viable argument that I'm going to take a closer look at. Of course, with this view you'll have to contend with people saying that you must think all of the English translators were wrong to translate the word "houtos" as "this" in that verse, but they didn't always choose the best translations of words. Such as in Rev 20:7-8 where they translated the word "ethnos" as "nations" despite the fact that they number "as the sand of the sea".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My main point was that I was not taking sides in your and TribulationSigns personal argument.

Yes, I know, but I would have never thought that was the case. But, I appreciate you making that clear, anyway.

Unfortunately it was part of your interaction in your disagreement about this so I mentioned that I was agreeing with the theology about this that he was expressing but not anything else.

I completely understand and wasn't thinking otherwise.

 

[Zao is life]

Now, this is very interesting. I had not considered that the Greek word "houtos" can mean "the same" and not just "this". But, after looking it up, I see that is indeed the case. For example, it's translated as "the same" in Matthew 24:13.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same (houtos) shall be saved.

Normally, I would have thought you were turning "this generation" into "that generation", but if that word can mean "the same" instead of "this", then you may very well have a point here. So, your view is that after Jesus describes those who would see the things happening which would indicate that the kingdom of God is near, that same generation of people who would see those things happening happening will not pass away until all those things fulfilled. That's not talking about those people passing away, but just their generation passing away at that point.

That's a viable argument that I'm going to take a closer look at. Of course, with this view you'll have to contend with people saying that you must think all of the English translators were wrong to translate the word "houtos" as "this" in that verse, but they didn't always choose the best translations of words. Such as in Rev 20:7-8 where they translated the word "ethnos" as "nations" despite the fact that they number "as the sand of the sea".

Matthew 8:27 uses the same word

But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this [houtos], that even the winds and the sea obey him!

IMO it means "the same" (the same thing or person or subject being spoken about) but in English the word used will best suit the actual verse, so English uses words like "this, these, those, that". Strong's Greek: 3778. οὗτος, (houtos, hauté, touto) -- This, these, he, she, it

 

[claninja]

Does the English word "generation" have only one definition? No, it doesn't. So, what is your point?

Tell me exactly how you define it and we'll see if it fits the context of Matthew 24:34 or not.

Based on the multiple definitions of the word the English word, generation, I think it is used as a noun for a group of people living at the same time in the context of Matthew 24.

From dictionary.com :

1. the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time:
   the postwar generation.
2. the average span of years between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring, reckoned in accordance with various disciplines, as in human population studies, which typically cite a generational range as 20–35 years, and in the classification of Generations X, Y, and Z, which loosely frame periods of 15–20 years:
   Her photo layout shows the hairstyle trends among young men over the past four generations.
3. a group of individuals, most of whom are the same approximate age, having similar ideas, problems, attitudes, etc.Compare Beat Generation, Lost Generation.
4. a group of individuals belonging to a specific category at the same time:
   Chaplin belonged to the generation of silent-screen stars.
5. a single step in natural descent, as of human beings, animals, or plants.
6. a form, type, class, etc., of objects existing at the same time and having many similarities or developed from a common model or ancestor (often used in combination):
   a new generation of anticancer drugs;
   a third-generation phone.
7. the offspring of a certain parent or couple, considered as a step in natural descent.
8. the act or process of generating or bringing into being; production, manufacture, or procreation.
9. the state of being generated.
10. production by natural or artificial processes; evolution, as of heat or sound.
11. Biology.
    1. one complete life cycle.
    2. one of the alternate phases that complete a life cycle having more than one phase:
       the gametophyte generation.
12. Mathematics. the production of a geometrical figure by the motion of another figure.
13. Physics. one of the successive sets of nuclei produced in a chain reaction.
14. (in duplicating processes, as photocopying, film, etc.) the distance in duplicating steps that a copy is from the original work.

which of the 14 different definitions, do you think should be applied to the English word generation in Matthew 24:34?

The translators were not inspired by God, but the NT authors were. I believe most of them did a great job, overall, but they did not always choose the right English words. For example, most of them translated the Greek word "ethnos" as "nations" in verses like Matthew 25:31, Matthew 28:19 and Revelation 20:7. As if nations will be judged and given either eternal life or eternal punishment when Jesus comes? As if nations can be baptized? As if nations can number "as the sand of the sea"?

ok, so they don’t have spiritual discernment when they translate a word in a way that goes against your framework. Got it.

 

[claninja]

asked you to explain it to me as well, not just him. So, please tell me how you interpret Matthew 24:29.

29 or 30? I thought it was 30?

Of course. I did not say otherwise. But, what is that in relation to? His future second coming when He comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night when heaven and earth will pass away (2 Peter 3:10-12).

Whose spiritual discernment gets to decide when it is actually near?

I mean if Jesus said when you see all things (events listed in the Olivet discourse), you WILL know He is near/right at the door, and then apostles in the NT claim it’s near/right at the door decades later (James 5:8-9, Hebrews 10:37, 1 Peter 4:7, 1 John 2:18-19), but then you have to negotiate that and claim the apostles meant God’s time not man’s , then who gets to spiritually discern the coming is literally near in man’s time according to the olivet discourse, especially considering we have 0% success rate over the last 2000 years?

So, in that case, I assume then that you would agree that it does not make sense for covenantee to not see Matthew 24:34 as being related to verses 30 and 31?

I mean, it makes sense from a framework perspective. If your framework requires vs 30-31 to be absolutely literal, then you have to negotiate with the text at some point and draw the invisible dividing line somewhere, no?

 

[marks]

Matthew 24:32-34 KJV
32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

In saying "this" generation, Jesus refers to a generation that is close to Him at the time of His speaking. In saying "this generation will not pass away till all these things be fulfilled", as He speaks of the time at the end of the age, this now limits the meaning of "generation" to be a "generation" is both present historically with Jesus in His day, and will be present at the end of the age.

So therefore, any meaning of generation that does not allow that certain generation to exist over a long span of time is ruled out.

Genea is overwhelmingly used to refer to a group of people living at the same time in the Septuagint and the NT.

In this case, I don't believe that usage fits. It could only be the nation of the Isrealites, those generated/descended from a common anscestor.

Matthew 24:22 KJV
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Contextually this fits as Jesus had moments before prophesied that the "chosen" would not be allowed to be exterminated. In referring to "the chosen" and "the nations", this is Israel, and the gentiles.

So Jesus here prophesies twice that Israel will not be destroyed before Jesus comes, and that He will rescue them before they are all dead.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 8:27 uses the same word

But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this [houtos], that even the winds and the sea obey him!

IMO it means "the same" (the same thing or person or subject being spoken about) but in English the word used will best suit the actual verse, so English uses words like "this, these, those, that". Strong's Greek: 3778. οὗτος, (houtos, hauté, touto) -- This, these, he, she, it

That makes sense, so I think we need to have the preterists here give their input on this because they think that "this generation" must mean a generation that existed at the time Jesus was speaking. When you look at what the word "houtos" actually means, you can see that is not the case. It can instead refer to the same generation that will see "all these things" that will indicate that Christ's return is near. That makes a lot of sense an I'm leaning strongly towards adopting that view. Davidpt believes that I think I can't ever be wrong, but I've never said that. I've been wrong plenty of times. We all keep learning as times goes on. I do think we should have less things that we're wrong about or not sure about as times goes on, but all of us always have things to learn throughout our lives.

 

[Zao is life]

Now, this is very interesting. I had not considered that the Greek word "houtos" can mean "the same" and not just "this". But, after looking it up, I see that is indeed the case. For example, it's translated as "the same" in Matthew 24:13.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same (houtos) shall be saved.

Normally, I would have thought you were turning "this generation" into "that generation", but if that word can mean "the same" instead of "this", then you may very well have a point here. So, your view is that after Jesus describes those who would see the things happening which would indicate that the kingdom of God is near, that same generation of people who would see those things happening happening will not pass away until all those things fulfilled. That's not talking about those people passing away, but just their generation passing away at that point.

That's a viable argument that I'm going to take a closer look at. Of course, with this view you'll have to contend with people saying that you must think all of the English translators were wrong to translate the word "houtos" as "this" in that verse, but they didn't always choose the best translations of words. Such as in Rev 20:7-8 where they translated the word "ethnos" as "nations" despite the fact that they number "as the sand of the sea".

The context IMO is the end of the age and the signs that the Lord's return is near, so the generation that sees those signs will know that He is near - it does not even matter when "that day or hour" is. Even if it was in the 1st century as Preterists claim it would be referring to the generation alive at the time who see the signs.

But it's not referring to the generation of the 1st century. If it was then the resurrection would have taken place. It's still referring to the same generation that will see the signs.

 

[claninja]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I think I made that pretty clear. So, definition 2 is the broad definition and the word can be used to mean that broad definition. And then 2a and 2b are narrower variations of 2.

2a and 2b are the usages of 2. That’s how Lexicons work…..

Biblical use of men of same stock/family:

A.) step in natural descent - 14 generations from Abraham to David
B.) metaphorically of men grouped together by a characteristic- this “wicked” or “perverse” generation.

 

[claninja]

In this case, I don't believe that usage fits. It could only be the nation of the Isrealites, those generated/descended from a common anscestor.

According to your framework it doesn’t fit. If you believe Matthew 24:30-31 are required to be absolutely literal, then you need to negotiate with the text. In your instance you seem to be arguing genea cannot mean group of people living at the same time but must instead mean generated from a common ancestor. The biblical use of this definition is found in Matthew 1:17 - “14 generations from Abraham to David”. If genea was plural, you would definitely have a solid argument. “These/those generations will not pass away…..”

 

[claninja]

because there is no difference in meaning between the English words "this generation", "that generation", "the generation/s", "ancient generations" etc,

What? “This” generation definitely means something different than “that” generation, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[marks]

According to your framework it doesn’t fit. If you believe Matthew 24:30-31 are required to be absolutely literal, then you need to negotiate with the text. In your instance you seem to be arguing genea cannot mean group of people living at the same time but must instead mean generated from a common ancestor. The biblical use of this definition is found in Matthew 1:17 - “14 generations from Abraham to David”. If genea was plural, you would definitely have a solid argument. “These/those generations will not pass away…..”

No, this generation, this nation. The passage doesn't work any other way. If Jesus had meant, "that bunch of people alive at the end of the age", He would have to have said, "that generation". Koine Greek has a precision that we need to follow.

That's the key part, "This" generation. A generation meaning "those alive at the end of the age" could not be described as "this", that is, one near to the speaker.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

29 or 30? I thought it was 30?

No, I'm talking about verse 29 because I was originally asking covenantee to explain his view of it because of how he does not believe that Jesus returns "immediately after the tribulation of those days". So, he apparently thinks that the rest of verse 29 figuratively describes a period of time after 70 AD and before the future return of Christ. You don't share his understanding of verses 30 and 31, so I'm sure you do not share his understanding of verse 29, either. I would guess that you would agree with me in the sense that verses 30 and 31 immediately or at least very shortly follow "the tribulation of those days" even though we interpret those verses differently.

Whose spiritual discernment gets to decide when it is actually near?

Each person has to decide how they understand what He was talking about. That depends on what things are "all these things" that Jesus said would indicate that His coming was near. Was it all of the things that He had previously talked about from the beginning of the discourse? No, that can't be. He already indicated that the wars and rumors of wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes would not be an indication that "the end" was near, so He wasn't talking about literally all the things that He had previously mentioned. So, what things was He talking about then? The things He talked about after verse 8 in verses 9-13. Things like a significant increase in persecution, apostasy, deception and wickedness.

I mean if Jesus said when you see all things (events listed in the Olivet discourse), you WILL know He is near/right at the door, and then apostles in the NT claim it’s near/right at the door decades later (James 5:8-9, Hebrews 10:37, 1 Peter 4:7, 1 John 2:18-19), but then you have to negotiate that and claim the apostles meant God’s time not man’s , then who gets to spiritually discern the coming is literally near in man’s time according to the olivet discourse, especially considering we have 0% success rate over the last 2000 years?

Hold on here. You can't include the wars, famines and earthquakes and such as being among the things that would indicate that His coming was near because He specifically indicate that those things would NOT indicate that His coming was near just yet. Those things were just "the beginning of sorrows". So, you are looking at this from the wrong perspective of what Jesus was talking about.

Also, you are misinterpreting what the verses you referenced mean. Those verses refer to the certainty of His coming and that it is always getting nearer. In no way, shape or form did they prophesy that His return was literally near. There is no way in the world that Peter was saying in 1 Peter 4:7 that what he later described in 2 Peter 3:10-13 was going to literally happen soon.

I mean, it makes sense from a framework perspective. If your framework requires vs 30-31 to be absolutely literal, then you have to negotiate with the text at some point and draw the invisible dividing line somewhere, no?

Of course. And that's what I'm trying to get him to address.

 

[Zao is life]

That makes sense, so I think we need to have the preterists here give their input on this because they think that "this generation" must mean a generation that existed at the time Jesus was speaking. When you look at what the word "houtos" actually means, you can see that is not the case. It can instead refer to the same generation that will see "all these things" that will indicate that Christ's return is near. That makes a lot of sense an I'm leaning strongly towards adopting that view. Davidpt believes that I think I can't ever be wrong, but I've never said that. I've been wrong plenty of times. We all keep learning as times goes on. I do think we should have less things that we're wrong about or not sure about as times goes on, but all of us always have things to learn throughout our lives.

I agree. Like when the Textus Receptus and the other Greek manuscripts used in the NIV use different Greek words for the same thing. The context decides what English word the translators pick when translating into English. Even the KJV has a certain amount of dynamic equivalence because to say "the same" every time we're referring to a person or time or thing is just not the way we normally speak in English.

When Preterists start to attempt to trip me up on things like the English word "this" attached to the word "generation" in THE ENGLISH version of Luke 21:32 then this [houtos] is the time I start rolling my eyes,

because it was obvious to me the very first time I ever read the New Testament that Jesus was speaking about the generation that would see the signs of His return that He had just given, and that the same [houtos] does not mean that "He was therefore talking about the generation "that lived in 70 A,D" (or ANY century) because THE REASON He have the signs and told those who believe in Him to watch is because no one knows the day and hour of His return - in fact, He is coming as a thief, as He later revealed in the Revelation.

The same generation that sees the signs will not pass away until all the signs He mentioned are fulfilled. Also meaning that "the same the generation" that sees the signs will pass away when all is fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What? “This” generation definitely means something different than “that” generation, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Read what he said towards the end of that post and then you should see what he meant by that. The word "this" there is translated from the Greek word "houtos", which can also mean "the same" like it is in this verse, for example:

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same (houtos) shall be saved.

So, in this verse, "houtos" is used to refer to people who had previously been referenced, which were those who endure unto the end. And He said "the same (houtos) shall be saved". So, "the same" refers to those previously mentioned people who would endure unto the end.

He used this passage to make his point, so keep that definition of the word "houtos" in mind when you read this passage...

Luke 21:31
So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

So, his argument is that "this generation" refers to "the same" generation that would see the things come to pass that would make them know that the kingdom of God was near. In that case, "this generation" doesn't need to be the current generation, but instead is "the same" generation that would see "these things come to pass". I think that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 24:32-34 KJV
32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Yeah, I'm not actually following you, but we're all looking at the English word "this" which translates a Greek word "houtos", which means "the same"

"The same [houtos] the generation shall not pass until all the same [houtos] things be fulfilled."

(Notice how the Greek word houtos is translated into English as "this" and "these" in the same verse).

What did Jesus say immediately before He said "the same [houtos] the generation shall not pass until all the same [houtos] things be fulfilled?

He said, So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

In saying "this" generation, Jesus refers to a generation that is close to Him at the time of His speaking. In saying "this generation will not pass away till all these things be fulfilled", as He speaks of the time at the end of the age, this now limits the meaning of "generation" to be a "generation" is both present historically with Jesus in His day, and will be present at the end of the age.

Why? If our generation is talking about what the world will look like by 2099, and we're all speaking Greek, and someone says,

"I think the same [houtos] generation" (of 2099) will be walking around with tiny external bionic ears in their pockets to put their mobile calls contained in a chip in their brains on loudspeaker",

what difference would it make if someone translated that into English as ""I think this generation" (the generation that will see 2099) will be walking around with tiny external bionic ears .."?

So therefore, any meaning of generation that does not allow that certain generation to exist over a long span of time is ruled out.

No. Not according to the Greek word being translated. Why is everyone hooked on the English word "this"? The Greek word is translated as "these", "they", "He", "that", "it" - depending on the subject being spoken about in the verse and passage. In this case (see I used the word this again) it's referring to the signs of the end of the age and return of Christ.

In this case, I don't believe that usage fits. It could only be the nation of the Isrealites,

I disagree, for the reasons I already gave.

those generated/descended from a common anscestor.

Matthew 24:22 KJV
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Contextually this fits as Jesus had moments before prophesied that the "chosen" would not be allowed to be exterminated. In referring to "the chosen" and "the nations", this is Israel, and the gentiles.

So Jesus here prophesies twice that Israel will not be destroyed before Jesus comes, and that He will rescue them before they are all dead.

Much love!

I don't see why Jesus telling His disciples (all his disciples) about the signs of a global event like the return of Christ would be restricted to Him talking to about a generation of Jews in Israel, no matter what century or generation.

I don't even believe He is necessarily talking about believers when He says "this generation shall not pass away." He is simply talking about the generation of humanity that will be alive when He returns, who will ALL see those signs He was giving. Obviously not every human being will see the signs as the signs Jesus gave of the end of the age. Edit: Or maybe they will:

@marks Read the sixth seal. THAT'S the generation Jesus is referring to.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree. Like when the Textus Receptus and the other Greek manuscripts used in the NIV use different Greek words for the same thing. The context decides what English word the translators pick when translating into English. Even the KJV has a certain amount of dynamic equivalence because to say "the same" every time we're referring to a person or time or thing is just not the way we normally speak in English.

When Preterists start to attempt to trip me up on things like the English word "this" attached to the word "generation" in THE ENGLISH version of Luke 21:32 then this [houtos] is the time I start rolling my eyes,

because it was obvious to me the very first time I ever read the New Testament that Jesus was speaking about the generation that would see the signs of His return that He had just given, and that the same [houtos] does not mean that "He was therefore talking about the generation "that lived in 70 A,D" (or ANY century) because THE REASON He have the signs and told those who believe in Him to watch is because no one knows the day and hour of His return - in fact, He is coming as a thief, as He later revealed in the Revelation.

The same generation that sees the signs will not pass away until all the signs He mentioned are fulfilled. Also meaning that "the same the generation" that sees the signs will pass away when all is fulfilled.

Of course Jesus is speaking of the generation to come in the future. I had words years ago with a youth pastor who did not know he was a preterist, now he does know he is. The guy also said revelation was all fulfilled in 70ad because of the word 'soon', shortly, quickly.
As in Jesus came back in 70AD and everything, new earth, new heaven was fulfilled. There was nothing left to happen.

Nero was the antichrist as his name adds up to 666
etc...

Rev 22
6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the [b]holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”