When does Satan impersonate Christ.

[Rockerduck]

If you cannot disprove the following Scripture out the mouth of Lord Jesus, then it means you are NOT listening to Him...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Who are these who followed at His second coming? Yep, the raptured elect.

Revelation 19:13-14 - 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Jesus never talked about the Church age or the Body of Christ during His earthly ministry. After Jesus's resurrection, He let the apostles know of the Spirt of Truth in John 16:13, but Pentecost was a surprise to the apostles as to what the power would be; and to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit; and the Church age was begun. Then Christ chose Paul to be the apostle to the gentiles to give; by the revelation of Christ; all the doctrines of the Christian faith. Including the rapture.

 

[Davy]

Who are these who followed at His second coming? Yep, the raptured elect.

Revelation 19:13-14 - 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Jesus never talked about the Church age or the Body of Christ during His earthly ministry. After Jesus's resurrection, He let the apostles know of the Spirt of Truth in John 16:13, but Pentecost was a surprise to the apostles as to what the power would be; and to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit; and the Church age was begun. Then Christ chose Paul to be the apostle to the gentiles to give; by the revelation of Christ; all the doctrines of the Christian faith. Including the rapture.

It's your option to deny what Jesus said there about the time of His future coming AFTER... the tribulation. But that's still what you are doing, i.e., denying Christ's Own Words in favor of men's false words of a pre-trib rapture.

 

[The Learner]

good discusssion all

 

[Rockerduck]

It's your option to deny what Jesus said there about the time of His future coming AFTER... the tribulation. But that's still what you are doing, i.e., denying Christ's Own Words in favor of men's false words of a pre-trib rapture.

It is not man's words; it is the Word of Jesus who told me. You just can't believe it. So, let's just agree to disagree. I'm redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

 

[Davy]

It is not man's words; it is the Word of Jesus who told me. You just can't believe it. So, let's just agree to disagree. I'm redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

The teaching of a Pre-tribulation Rapture Theory IS... NOT BIBLICAL. It is MAN's word.

Nowhere in God's Word is any such pre-trib rapture doctrine taught. And the reason why that is, is simple. It is because God's Word teaches ONLY 2 comings by Jesus Christ, the 1st one to die on the cross for remission of sins of those who believe, and 2, His future coming on the LAST DAY of this present world to gather His elect, of both His 'asleep' saints, and His saint's still alive on earth, and He takes them ALL to the Mount of Olives with Him where His feet touch down upon that Mount of Olives, the very place where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1.

Even in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, Apostle Paul is teaching that very idea of Christ's coming to gather His faithful Church on the LAST DAY of this present world.

YOU, instead of heeding what is written on the matter, are simply listening to a doctrine from men that was first taught in a church in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby.

And I'm not saying this to try and lord it over you; my desire is that you check me out in God's written Word on this for yourself, and come to a love of the Truth, before it's too late.

 

[Davy]

It is not man's words; it is the Word of Jesus who told me. You just can't believe it. So, let's just agree to disagree. I'm redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

You want me to believe you instead of God's written Word?? Sorry, that ain't gonna' happen. I check out what others teach by verifying in God's written Word, like the Bereans did which Apostle Paul commended for doing. You should learn to do the same. You might start with what Lord Jesus said below about the timing of His future return to gather His Church...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Jesus made that very... plain that His future coming to gather His Church is AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION, not prior to it like man's false pre-trib rapture teaches.

 

[Rockerduck]

You want me to believe you instead of God's written Word?? Sorry, that ain't gonna' happen. I check out what others teach by verifying in God's written Word, like the Bereans did which Apostle Paul commended for doing. You should learn to do the same. You might start with what Lord Jesus said below about the timing of His future return to gather His Church...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Jesus made that very... plain that His future coming to gather His Church is AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION, not prior to it like man's false pre-trib rapture teaches.

Agree to disagree. God tells me everything I need to know including all scripture that goes with it. I have a close relation with Jesus and He talks to me. God Bless you, and goodbye.

 

[Davy]

Agree to disagree. God tells me everything I need to know including all scripture that goes with it. I have a close relation with Jesus and He talks to me. God Bless you, and goodbye.

I don't want to argue either, but I refuse to allow you to think for one minute that you can claim God showed you while you heed men's false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture theory. My Heavenly Father would be upset with me if I did not try to show you the difference.

 

[Hobie]

That suggests that you believe in man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

We (Christ's Church) are not going anywhere until Jesus returns AFTER... the tribulation like He said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

And even then, God's Word points to Jesus gathering those of His still alive on earth up in the air with Him on His way to... the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14.

So unless we die beforehand, we most likely will see Satan coming as the Antichrist to earth in our earthly dimension, with his angels, like Rev.12:7 forward points to.

And some of us are to be delivered up to give a TESTIMONY against the beast by The Holy Spirit (Mark 13). That is why Christ's Church will go through the coming "great tribulation". We have a duty for Christ Jesus to fulfill, along with God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem.

We are in what Christ predicted, only if we see a nuclear blast can it reach beyond the social, religious, weather events, pandemics, worldwide calamities hitting us.

 

[Davy]

We are in what Christ predicted, only if we see a nuclear blast can it reach beyond the social, religious, weather events, pandemics, worldwide calamities hitting us.

Don't be deceived.
The chaotic events happening in today's world are only a ruse. Do you know what a ruse is? It's a subterfuge, a trickery. And Lord Jesus showed us that.

In Matthew 24:6 when Jesus said we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, to not be troubled, because the END is not yet, He was revealing the ruse of today prior to the coming tribulation. Jesus showed the chaotic things going on today are "the beginning of sorrows", NOT the "great tribulation" time at the END.

When He said the latter part of that verse, "the end is not yet", He was contrasting the two periods, prior to the "great tribulation" with the "beginning of sorrows" period, with the later "great tribulation" period which will be a time of 'world peace', when ALL wars have stopped.

Rev 13:4
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
KJV

That question above in red applies only for the time of the END, when all wars have stopped, which is the opposite of "wars and rumors of war". When the dragon becomes world ruler for the very END during the "great tribulation", he will control all the world's militaries. That is essentially one of the main purposes of the United Nations, to put all the world's military authority under control of the U.N. It is in prep for the coming Antichrist to take control over it.

So the greater the RUSE today, the sharper the contrast for the coming FAKE WORLD PEACE coming under the world Antichrist ruler at the END.

Even if a nuke gets spent at today's time, it will only be an accident or a ruse to scare more people into buying into the coming FAKE world peace RUSE and their one-world leader. Cause a problem - present a solution; that's the strategy of Christ's enemies.

 

[Waiting on him]

In Matthew 24:6 when Jesus said we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, to not be troubled, because the END is not yet, He was revealing the ruse of today prior to the coming tribulation. Jesus showed the chaotic things going on today are "the beginning of sorrows", NOT the "great tribulation" time at the END.

You state that Jesus is telling you that you will hear of wars while totally over looking the fact that he’s telling the four disciples that he is having the conversation with, that they will in-fact hear of wars and rumors of wars?


How do you turn this into a conversation that he’s having with you?

 

[Waiting on him]

Mark 13:3-4,7 KJV
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, [4] Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? [7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

 

[Davy]

You state that Jesus is telling you that you will hear of wars while totally over looking the fact that he’s telling the four disciples that he is having the conversation with, that they will in-fact hear of wars and rumors of wars?


How do you turn this into a conversation that he’s having with you?

Already I can tell this conversation ain't going anywhere, because you have yet to understand that the SIGNS Jesus was giving in His Olivet discourse are for the very END of this world, NOT for the days of His Apostles.

And you should have easily figured that out, IF... you had actually read the Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21 Scriptures. But it's obvious that you have not, but have only chose to latch onto a silly doctrine from the deceived that tries to push Christ's Olivet discourse prophecy back in history.

Think about it brethren, the last SIGN Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse is that of His return and gathering of His Church. Has that really already happened? Did it happen in the days of His Apostles? Absolutely not! Those saying it did is about the false seminary doctrine called Full-Preterism. Their doctrine called Partial-Preterism is almost as bad, but at least Partial-Preterists still believe Jesus' 2nd coming is still sometime in the future.

 

[Davy]

Mark 13:3-4,7 KJV
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, [4] Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? [7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

But can you actually 'understand'... what Jesus said there?

If wars and rumors of war are going on, then the END is not yet. That simply is what Jesus said there. So how much brain power is required then, to also understand by that, that the END means a time when all wars have stopped, and it is a time of peace?

If you had studied the Old Testament prophets (like all Christian brethren are also to do), then you might have understood about the end of this world is prophesied to be a time of world peace, yet a fake peace. The little horn of Daniel which represents the coming Antichrist at the end of this world is to use... 'peace' to destroy many, and he will cause craft to prosper. That means a chicken in every pot for those who bow to him. This is why after God's two witnesses are killed with their dead bodies left laying in the street in Jerusalem, the nations will throw parties and send each other gifts because those two witnesses are dead (Revelation 11).

So the next time brethren get scared, and vote to give up their God-given rights just so they can feel safe instead, remember the coming false world peace the Antichrist is going use upon the deceived, which will end all wars, literally.

 

[Davy]

Some might ask then, just what is... the SIGN Jesus gave to show the START of the "great tribulation"?

I'll put that SIGN in bold red for you brethren...

Matt 24:15-23
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
KJV

What is... that "abomination of desolation" standing in the holy place (Temple in Jerusalem) about?

Per the Book of Daniel, where Jesus was quoting, that "abomination of desolation" is about an IDOL abomination placed inside the temple in false worship. And that is about a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. Because that will be such an event of strong delusion for the coming time of "great tribulation", The LORD already gave some Old Testament 'ensamples' about it.

One example that many miss is the golden image idol which Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, setup demanding that all bow in worship to it, or be killed. That is exactly the same... idea mentioned at the end of Revelation 13 about the "another beast" for the end, the coming Antichrist.

The reason why that "abomination of desolation" IDOL is the hinge-point that begins the "great tribulation" will be exactly for that reason, Antichrist's demand to bow to him and his idol in false worship, or be killed...

Rev 13:14-15
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV

Per the symbolic final "one week" prophecy of Daniel 9:27, the coming false one will end the Jew's daily sacrifices at the middle of the "one week" (symbolic of 7 years), and instead will place the "abomination that maketh desolate", meaning making the Temple in Jerusalem spiritually desolate in idol worship. That means prior to that mid-point, the Jew's 3rd temple will be built, and they will have begun old covenant worship again with animal sacrifices. That must exist so as to fulfill that Daniel 9 and 11 prophecy about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL that Lord Jesus pointed to for the end of this world.

 

[Hobie]

Don't be deceived.
The chaotic events happening in today's world are only a ruse. Do you know what a ruse is? It's a subterfuge, a trickery. And Lord Jesus showed us that.

In Matthew 24:6 when Jesus said we would hear of wars and rumors of wars, to not be troubled, because the END is not yet, He was revealing the ruse of today prior to the coming tribulation. Jesus showed the chaotic things going on today are "the beginning of sorrows", NOT the "great tribulation" time at the END.

When He said the latter part of that verse, "the end is not yet", He was contrasting the two periods, prior to the "great tribulation" with the "beginning of sorrows" period, with the later "great tribulation" period which will be a time of 'world peace', when ALL wars have stopped.

Rev 13:4
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
KJV

That question above in red applies only for the time of the END, when all wars have stopped, which is the opposite of "wars and rumors of war". When the dragon becomes world ruler for the very END during the "great tribulation", he will control all the world's militaries. That is essentially one of the main purposes of the United Nations, to put all the world's military authority under control of the U.N. It is in prep for the coming Antichrist to take control over it.

So the greater the RUSE today, the sharper the contrast for the coming FAKE WORLD PEACE coming under the world Antichrist ruler at the END.

Even if a nuke gets spent at today's time, it will only be an accident or a ruse to scare more people into buying into the coming FAKE world peace RUSE and their one-world leader. Cause a problem - present a solution; that's the strategy of Christ's enemies.

I think when we see the sudden destruction, it will be clear to all it is no ruse.

 

[Davy]

I think when we see the sudden destruction, it will be clear to all it is no ruse.

Yet the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5 is about God's consuming fire destruction on the very 'last day' of this world, which is when Jesus appears coming in the clouds. That is the "day of the Lord". Apostle Paul didn't just create that "sudden destruction" event that he showed happens on the "day of the Lord". He was teaching that from the Old Testament prophets where that idea was first taught.

The "day of the Lord" is the NT "day of Christ". I chuckle when I hear preachers trying to teach that the "day of Christ" phrase means something other than the "day of the Lord", the last day of this world.

 

[Hobie]

Yet the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5 is about God's consuming fire destruction on the very 'last day' of this world, which is when Jesus appears coming in the clouds. That is the "day of the Lord". Apostle Paul didn't just create that "sudden destruction" event that he showed happens on the "day of the Lord". He was teaching that from the Old Testament prophets where that idea was first taught.

The "day of the Lord" is the NT "day of Christ". I chuckle when I hear preachers trying to teach that the "day of Christ" phrase means something other than the "day of the Lord", the last day of this world.

But when the false idea of 7 years of waiting gets spread around with no biblical backing, it opens up all kinds of issues that Satan can use claiming he is the christ. The very thing we were warned about and here we are opening the door to it...

 

[quietthinker]

When does Satan impersonate Christ.​

When the wool is well and truly pulled over!

 

[Hobie]

When does Satan impersonate Christ.​

When the wool is well and truly pulled over!

And you can see how the door is open for the wool to be well pulled over with a 7 year opening...
"The secret rapture—usually just called the rapture of the church—is the idea that Christ will come to take believers out of the world before His return with them at the second coming. The secret rapture is “secret” in that no one will see Jesus coming except believers; this is in contrast to the second coming of Christ after the tribulation, when “every eye will see him” (Revelation 1:7). There is considerable disagreement among Christians regarding the timing of the secret rapture...."What is the concept of a secret rapture? | GotQuestions.org