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Featured When is it time to forgive and when is it time to act?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by Soverign Grace, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Active Member

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    This has bee a struggle for me to determine for a long time. A corrupt youth pastor rented my son and his friends a house even though I asked him to not. My son had tried to open the window and it had been painted shut, and his hand went through the glass, severing a tendon. My husband was hoodwinked by the corrupt family, who were realtors and refused to urge my son to see a lawyer, like I wanted to do. My husband stood there and insisted that he knew Jim XXX and he would make good. It turned out to be misplaced faith. They never called when our son underwent surgery and insisted they would pay the bills. As soon as the statute of limitations was up they refused to pay a cent and returned all letters unread. It was callous.

    Our son was left with a permanent injury. I won't go into the sordid details but the family was sickeningly corrupt. How can someone teach the bible - my husband said the one was a good teacher) and sin so recklessly and in-your-face? The youth pastor was on a cocktail of drugs and ran into a woman and killed her. He had connections and wasn't held accountable.

    I wanted to see a lawyer but didn't push because Scripture tells you to not take another believer to court before unbelievers. But our son was left with a permanent injury and no compensation. It has torn my heart out and given me much anguish over people who owned a church, taught the bible, but did everything the opposite of what Scripture teaches. A woman from the church left there and told me that they ruined a lot of peoples faith and told me they were very corrupt realtors because she worked with them. The pastor left the church and talked to us before he left and had only bad to say about them. He said there are people who will never go to church again because of what they did. The youth pastor even got away with killing a woman.

    They continued their corrupt dealings and got into a lot of trouble where they hurt a lot of children by something they did. Many children were permanently damaged. They got off with a slap on the wrist, got a new pastor, and are going on as if nothing happened with their church, while leaving mass destruction in their wake. A lot of people were angry after they damaged so many children yet had a booth at the towns fair advertising their church.

    I have pleaded with God for years for justice and have not seen it. They had a slap on the wrist and their name was in the news nationwide and they had to close their real estate business. I just wonder about the decision I made and I don't think it was the right one. I know my husband was hoodwinked by them but I tried to follow Scripture and our son was burned. Have others dealt with situations of another believer acting so corruptly? If so, do you think you made the right or wrong decision? I've kicked myself and my husband for years as our son was left permanently harmed. My husband later contacted them and told them that he'll never trust again because of what they did. They were callous and never answered. They only care about themselves and I wonder why God doesn't put them in jail before they hurt more unsuspecting believers.

    I wondered why someone follows Scripture only to get burned. God did show us that they were punished somewhat, but they never repaid our son for the harm they did. Has anyone else dealt with anything this serious - evil committed against you or a loved one by another believer? I walk close with God but certain things leave me unsettled. It made me think that the proper response all the time isn't just to forgive. I think there has to be more to it.
     
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  2. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    44267139_553414158451164_3777936590286880768_n.png ...On second thoughts I maybe should have not used the Thumbnail size. This is heard to read...but too late now, it wont let me re-post bigger..

    Oh good...I could change it! Yay! :)
     
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  3. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    I am appalled at your son's experience.

    Be sure of this. They SHALL NOT BE escape! Vengeance is mine says the Lord.

    Forgiving may be the single most difficult thing we have to do. But we have no choice. I shudder when I think of my transgressions he has so freely forgiven me.

    I saw him do this:

    We were getting legal quit claims on some of our land so we could clear the title to get our house put up. Every single person complied and signed them and sent them to us except one. He lived in Texas.

    I hunted down his phone number and called him explaining who I was and why I was calling. He admitted to having the quit claim in his cars glove compartment where it had been for a year!

    No apologies at all. Zero!

    He remarked that he had purchased a property and was having a horrible time getting a clear title! Wonder why? Hahaha.

    After that he returned our paperwork after ages of effort on my part. God sent him tribulation for doing wrongly toward me.

    Remember this;

    2 Thessalonians 1:6 KJVS
    Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

    God's wheels of justice grind slowly... But they grind exceedingly fine.

    The Lord will repay but we are obligated to forgive.

    I prophesy that your sons injury will be healed and made whole. Amen
     
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  4. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    How has the praying you have been doing for them helped you in this? (This is asked of anyone on this thread, since I do see a lot of desire for vengeance.)
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    This is a complicated topic.

    That the only thing I will add is Christ once to forgive and clean us, though we have to repent first.

    I see that repeated in the the bible, repent first.
     
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  6. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I see no godly benefit in feeling we should "forgive", only because we are told to. But rather, that we repent (change our minds about wanting 'them' to get what they deserve) and experience, instead, a real desire for 'them' to be forgiven and excused and absolved from the wrong we feel 'they' have done to us. To me, calling feeling anything less than that in our hearts for them..."forgiveness", is kind of thumbing our noses at Jesus.
     
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  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I think "forgiveness" is tied to "justice." And Godly Justice is the desire for things to be made right — NOT a desire to get even, or exact "paybacks."
     
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  8. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    People like that have had their minds "seared as with a hot iron..." Their greed overrides any true desire for God or the things of God. I am so sorry for what happened to your son :mad: And I understand your frustration in doing it according to scripture but I have to question if this youth pastor really was your brother in heart and spirit as, if so then he would never have done what he did. Our God vindicates His children eventually ♥
     
  9. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    So sorry to read about what happened, something struct me - why did the Pastor allow this youth leader to continue in his role if he knew he was corrupt in his business dealings !!
    It sounds as if they eventually lost the business, and had bad publicity , do you not think that this would have impacted and affected them , and who knows how God is using it all.
    Forgiveness is about freeing us , it's a means to be able to move forward and trust God with the wrongs that we have done and others have done. We only get embroiled ourselves if we continuously think God doesn't care or show us any sign of punishment to someone who has harmed us.

    None of us truly know how God is dealing with things - all of us have failings that impact others, yet God doesn't always choose to directly punish, sometimes he chooses to allow things to unfold which change us from within. Can you image what it would be like if God was just vengeful all the time. "Vengeance is mine says the Lord-"well he can administer with a much clearer picture of what is needed to bring about repentance and change. All we want half the time is for someone else to suffer for what they have done to us or others. It's often a natural part of the emotional impact to an event , but if you think about it, the situation with your sons injury will still exist, it's still part of his life - no amount of punishment poured out on the youth pastor will change that.
    Does the need for ' revenge ' ever really bring about a resolve?
    It may be an idea to ask yourself ' what would Satan want me to feel and how would he want me to act ' it often helps me to see the tactics at work .
    As far as not taking him to court, and even how your husband felt at the time- don't regret making decisions , which at the time you both felt right about. Your husband wasn't to know how it would all pan out and you made the decisions in good faith. That is never a bad thing. Just because it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to, doesn't make them wrong choices. Hindsight is a wonderful things - but all is does is embroil us with regrets.
    I am so sorry I know this must be all very hard to deal with, been there myself xx
    Satan won so many battles !!
    Right I have to go to work xx
    Much love
    Rita
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Forgiveness essentially means not holding a grudge. That does not preclude acting in your own best interests when necessary.

    If you were a member of the same church as the youth pastor, you could have reported this matter to the elders immediately, and asked for action to be taken on your behalf by them. That could have included deducting a portion from his salary every month until full restitution had been made.

    At the same time, it appears as though your son went against your wishes, since you asked this youth pastor not to rent to him, and surely you had good reason for this request. So there is clearly a tangled web here, and you have also failed to take appropriate action, having assumed that forgiveness means taking no action in your own interests.
     
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  11. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Elders and pastors in local churches need a lot of wisdom and courage to deal with matter faithfully, since there is so much pressure to conform with the ways of the world.
     
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  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    As well they are all still human sore not perfect and will make mistakes.

    Truly, our lives are a a war between the old and new natures that is not going to end on this earth.
     
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  13. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    How is it anyone's fault but their own that they run their arm through a window? It is sad and kind of tragic, but where should the actual "blame" be?
     
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  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ^ ah, there it is, ty Willy
    ?
     
  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    and we aren't even done yet, the kid is liable for the broken window too i guess

    with apologies to the op ok, i understand this is an emotional issue for you, and you naturally have a bias. Not saying the kid isn't a great person otherwise, and i understand the desire to not perceive your kids as having made a mistake, but you are not doing that kid right imo
     
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  17. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Undoubtedly, it would have been a magnanimous act for the pastor to have offered to pay all the hospital bills for the boy. But, why bankrupt this man and leave his family destitute for something that was not his fault, and that the insurance all responsible people carry would largely take care of anyway?
     
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  18. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    I think the point was that the young man didn't know the window was painted shut, he went to open it and because it was painted shut his hand went through the glass. So , do you not think there is some liability from whoever painted the window shut !?
    Butterfly
     
  19. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    If you have ever encountered a window that had been painted shut, you know better than that.
    That might be the excuse a desperate slick lawyer would try to float, but it would never fly with a sensible judge.
    It comes down to the fact that a painted-shut window will not budge a fraction of an inch, and it is obvious. You call the landlord instead of throwing all your weight into it, risking serious injury. Yes, there might eventually be some liability on the part of the painter, but I think that would be about it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  20. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    What if you have never encountered a window that has been painted shut, and you presumed it was just stiff , especially if he had not even noticed that it had been painted shut. Obvious to you , but not perhaps to everyone.
    anyway, not going to argue with you Willie, all I was saying is that the sole responsibility for what happened was not just down to the young man, there were factors that contributed to the accident.
    Butterfly
     
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