I'm non denominational. Scripture teaches this position. Dispensationalism teaches the complete opposite.
When is it time to forgive and when is it time to act?
- Thread starter Soverign Grace
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Oh okay, thanks.
So is it your position..
Revelations teaching has already occurred?
Glory to God,
Taken
I was trying to have you elaborate on Your ideas.
Like ... what Holy place did they stand, when they saw the abomination of desolation?
And what exactly became desolate?
Taken
A lot of people say a lot about: "I read the Bible as it is written!" or "I go by what the Bible says."
Well, how does a person who claims to do that get past...
Revelation 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
If John is going to die thousands of years before the tribulation he is starting to tell them about will ever happen, why would he even mention both himself and them (the people to whom he addressed the letter) being brothers in that tribulation? You can't be a part of (a brother in) something you will never experience.
Well, how does a person who claims to do that get past...
Revelation 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
If John is going to die thousands of years before the tribulation he is starting to tell them about will ever happen, why would he even mention both himself and them (the people to whom he addressed the letter) being brothers in that tribulation? You can't be a part of (a brother in) something you will never experience.
Where was "The Holy of Holies" located?
And, was not that same place not only destroyed, but also every stone plowed into the ground so that there was nothing left to even be seen of it?
In the Jewish Temple.
Correct.
And THAT marked the beginning of Sorrows?
All the world had been preached To?
Then why bother sending out the Apostles?
The Jews left their homes and ran and hid in the Hills?
Where is the Scriptures of them hiding?
And the foretelling Scriptures of them coming out of hiding...and then what, returning to a desolate city?
And the scriptural foretelling of Two great Tribulations like the world has never seen?
The Great Tribulation has more events taking place then One building falling down and a couple of Apostles being threatened and scooting out of town.
Seems you have some agreement with Dave, on a two great Tribulation factor.
I do not.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
Wow! "A building falling down and a couple of guys scooting out of town?" But, then, I have to remember that you did say you had read none of the historical accounts I mentioned.
If you are uneasy with my use of a small number...I'm open to you showing a third of the world's population having been killed by fire.
Rev 9:18
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
God Bless,
Taken
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I'm about half way through, and I have to re-read allot but, this essay is very interesting.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
"I'm open to you showing a third of the world's population having been killed by fire."
I have often wondered the answer to this question too (and, many other unsettled questions) Could it be that the third part of man killed by fire was witnessed to those who were possibly "taken up"? I have not looked into all the history of that time, hardly any actually. But it is a new thing that has peaked my interest. ♥
It is a complicated topic. I'm finding out it is much more than just forgiving. I wish we had been wiser earlier - we learned not to trust everyone who says "Lord! Lord!" When you look at it - the apostles faced the perils of false brethren. David prayed the imprecatory psalms. It's hard to judge what the right way to go is. I feel like the youth pastor got over on us and walked away laughing "sucker!" He's that type. I never liked him. I learned his wife left him. I don't know how she stayed as long as she did. So he's had things happen - I just feel somewhat confused because my husband trusted them and they turned around and kicked him in the teeth. But where was God? Were we to learn the lesson that we can't trust some believers? It seems that God should have honored my husband's faith and desire to not take another believer to court. That didn't happen. It's just one of those things that doesn't make sense. James Dobson wrote a book "When God doesn't make sense" (something like that) and I would like to read it.
It's easier to forgive a person that cuts you off in traffic I think than one who has had a part in the death of your child.
Even though the man who was largely responsible for the death of my daughter was killed in the accident he helped create it still took me a long long time to think of him without a rage rising up in me.
I refuse to speak of things which I have not experienced since I have not walked there.
Job said that the things that he had vowed never to have anything to do with had come to roost on his king post.
I pray I do not use the words never and always. I have learned some harsh lessons regarding uttering the phrases "I always do this and I never and would never do that". The Lord teaches us through fearful and dramatic means if necessary.
Yes indeed we must forgive. If you can instantly forgive those that do great evil then we'll. For me I have to wrestle through things one tragedy, one affliction, one broken heart at a time.
God forbid that I judge another for having to wrestle through a horrible thing no matter the details.
First we may have to mechanically go through the motions of forgiving but if there first be a willing heart then our fleshly act of saying I forgive can be turned into spiritual reality... Corrie TenBoom said this in one of her books upon being asked for forgiveness by a former Nazi guard at Ravensbruck death camp. At first it was sheer wil power but God stepped in and it was true forgiveness.
Big or little we are frequently placed in circumstances we'd rather not be in. Can I get an Amen?
A small thing perhaps but last week I was awaiting some items I'd ordered online to be delivered by UPS.
Our friend that lives on our place with us came to the door with a package he'd found beside our drive. To save two or three minutes the UPS driver had just laid the packages down about a quarter of the way to our house. I had to chew on that for a while to get past it. Especially since I was sent a cheerful email announcing the delivery of my package. The last one was left leaning against our gate a quarter mile distant.
Horribly large and grievous or small and annoying I have to wrestle through every one. Please pray for me to do better. It's a sometimes terrible thing being me but I'm all I have to work with. Amen.
Even though the man who was largely responsible for the death of my daughter was killed in the accident he helped create it still took me a long long time to think of him without a rage rising up in me.
I refuse to speak of things which I have not experienced since I have not walked there.
Job said that the things that he had vowed never to have anything to do with had come to roost on his king post.
I pray I do not use the words never and always. I have learned some harsh lessons regarding uttering the phrases "I always do this and I never and would never do that". The Lord teaches us through fearful and dramatic means if necessary.
Yes indeed we must forgive. If you can instantly forgive those that do great evil then we'll. For me I have to wrestle through things one tragedy, one affliction, one broken heart at a time.
God forbid that I judge another for having to wrestle through a horrible thing no matter the details.
First we may have to mechanically go through the motions of forgiving but if there first be a willing heart then our fleshly act of saying I forgive can be turned into spiritual reality... Corrie TenBoom said this in one of her books upon being asked for forgiveness by a former Nazi guard at Ravensbruck death camp. At first it was sheer wil power but God stepped in and it was true forgiveness.
Big or little we are frequently placed in circumstances we'd rather not be in. Can I get an Amen?
A small thing perhaps but last week I was awaiting some items I'd ordered online to be delivered by UPS.
Our friend that lives on our place with us came to the door with a package he'd found beside our drive. To save two or three minutes the UPS driver had just laid the packages down about a quarter of the way to our house. I had to chew on that for a while to get past it. Especially since I was sent a cheerful email announcing the delivery of my package. The last one was left leaning against our gate a quarter mile distant.
Horribly large and grievous or small and annoying I have to wrestle through every one. Please pray for me to do better. It's a sometimes terrible thing being me but I'm all I have to work with. Amen.
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LoveBeacon
Member
I am not sure if you found the answer that you were looking for. It is still unclear to me what exactly you want. Is it justification for exposing that pastor? Is it vengeance for what He did to your child?
The best answer that can be given must start and finish with Jesus. If we go in with this mindset, then we will see clearly what the right thing is to do.
Jesus says, bless those who despite fully use you. It sounds like this person has unfairly used you and what you want is vengeance for this. Is that what Jesus would want?
Jesus says, Love your enemies. I can imagine you saw this person (and his family?) as enemies for what they did and continued to do towards others in their church. Do you feel like you responded in a loving way?
All this is to say that I don't have the answer to tell you whether or not what you did was right or wrong. What I can say is, when we follow Jesus, He knows what's best for us and we always have a clear conscience after wards. If this isn't happening, then there is something that we are holding onto that God doesn't want us to.
In peace
The best answer that can be given must start and finish with Jesus. If we go in with this mindset, then we will see clearly what the right thing is to do.
Jesus says, bless those who despite fully use you. It sounds like this person has unfairly used you and what you want is vengeance for this. Is that what Jesus would want?
Jesus says, Love your enemies. I can imagine you saw this person (and his family?) as enemies for what they did and continued to do towards others in their church. Do you feel like you responded in a loving way?
All this is to say that I don't have the answer to tell you whether or not what you did was right or wrong. What I can say is, when we follow Jesus, He knows what's best for us and we always have a clear conscience after wards. If this isn't happening, then there is something that we are holding onto that God doesn't want us to.
In peace
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