When is it time to forgive and when is it time to act?

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Soverign Grace

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I understand your feelings. But fortunately, I've not been put to that test yet.
Yes - I have had a lot of tests - we'll see where God leads. I know we're called to forgive. I am trying to work out when it is right to hold one accountable vs just forgiveness.

I watched a show last night "Alpha Dog" - a true story about Nick Markowitz who was kidnapped by druggie friends of his brothers for a debt owed. They eventually killed him. His mother attempted suicide 11 times. She was consumed with holding them accountable. She put flyers everywhere and worked to try to hold them accountable. The mastermind, Jesse James Hollywood, was given life. I felt some of the pain that Susan Markowitz must have felt. I went on her sons memorial page and told her how sorry I was for what happened. I read other mothers who had posted. I think a mother's love is so much stronger, and deeper, and when something happens to their child - and even another's child - they feel it, because they know that level of deep love for the child they gave birth to. There is no stronger sentiment, IMO.
 
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Soverign Grace

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I asked my husband's opinion and he told me if you refuse to accept that there are good cops but also bad cops then you're a fool. And his brother is a cop.

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. - Proverbs 18:12
 

Willie T

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I think both of us stated there are good cops and bad cops. That has never been in dispute. I have only resisted you presenting an obviously doctored video, trying to claim it is proof a woman was beaten up while being photographed by a police camera, in a police station, by an officer who knew the camera was running all the time.
 

Soverign Grace

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I think both of us stated there are good cops and bad cops. That has never been in dispute. I have only resisted you presenting an obviously doctored video, trying to claim it is proof a woman was beaten up while being photographed by a police camera, in a police station, by an officer who knew the camera was running all the time.
That's your opinion Willie. I don't share it. The woman was obviously beaten in the face by the cop, and he broke her teeth. HE WAS FIRED. I'm not sure if this is the right video but the city obviously felt the video wasn't doctored. Philly cop who punched woman in the face suspended — and will likely get his own ticket punched with termination - NY Daily News

It doesn't really matter and I don't know why you're fixated on one video. There are unlimited OTHER videos that show people getting beaten by cops. IT'S IRREFUTABLE.

Why are you pursuing this? It's odd.
 

Willie T

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You chose that video yourself. You posted it, claiming it was some kind of proof. I showed VERY CLEARLY, by pointing out the exact timeframes where editing is as clear as the nose on your face, that the video is a doctored phony. How can you keep claiming it is not?
 

Taken

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You're right - I was deceived and tricked. Actually it wasn't me so much as my husband. He was hanging out with them, going to sports, their bible studies - he got chummy with them and was deceived. I warned him to come with me to see a lawyer but he said "I know Jim **** will make good! He's an honorable man!" Famous last words.

My husband was turned off to the church after that. I don't trust now. And I did learn to get things in writing. It was a painful lesson because now our son is left with the damage and tasked with trying to have it repaired. We did find a good doctor though but the co-pays are going to be astronomical. I don't know why God didn't show us - or show my husband - the deception of those people. I had been warned about them by a friend of a relative. My husband was hoodwinked, as was our son.

It is not the Church. Christ's Church is within a man. Man-made buildings are "supposed to be" A House of Prayer. Those who Officiate over the "House of Prayers" Can do so, when a dispute arises, BY the Official being the "mediator" of sorts, with the INTEND to land on an "agreement" between the two in dispute. It is the Official who CAN counsel one who is "renegging" on the agreement.

An agreement, must reveal the terms. Repay in incriminates, till when? Forever? Repay in full, and be finish with the agreement?

There is no price on a Body part. And why an agreement must be include the Terms, and duration of the Terms.

Hopefully, your husband will not SHUN off all Churches...Houses of Prayers...Because of what is deemed not resolved, and has no means to resolve, but to forgive them and move on.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
 

Taken

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They had some indignation heaped on them - their names were dragged through the mud - as well they should be. They hurt a lot of people. Just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable. It was my family's mistake for being deceived. Hopefully a painful lesson was learned.

If that was their consequence, that, as Scripture says is their Burden to bare.

Remember though, it does not relieve you from Forgiving their Trespasses.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Soverign Grace

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You chose that video yourself. You posted it, claiming it was some kind of proof. I showed VERY CLEARLY, by pointing out the exact timeframes where editing is as clear as the nose on your face, that the video is a doctored phony. How can you keep claiming it is not?
Willie - stop fixating on that one video. What your'e doing is not emotionally healthy. I am not claiming that that one video is not doctored - I said that when I posted the video I learned from the accompanying article that the cop was fired. If you stop FIXATING you'll see that there are OTHER VIDEOS that show police all over America abusing people - some in very vile ways. That is INDISPUTABLE. What happened to my family and I is INDISPUTABLE. There are enough other videos that prove there is an epidemic of police abuse.

If you don't want to accept the truth that there are good cops but also bad then I can't help you. You seem to want to prove you're right in the court of public opinion. You may have other needs that have to be fulfilled that you have to explore.
 

Soverign Grace

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If that was their consequence, that, as Scripture says is their Burden to bare.

Remember though, it does not relieve you from Forgiving their Trespasses.

Glory to God,
Taken
Yes I know. I has been a struggle - I find it hard to forgive evil such as that when I feel someone hasn't been held accountable.
 

Taken

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God provides for us and it's better to smile than frown. No amount of money is worth the joy of the Spirit.

No one was saying it was about money.
It is about Righting a Wrong.

The Whole Theme of Scripture is about Righting a Wrong.

First men being naturally born AGAINST God, and How to Right that, "SIN", according to Gods Way.

Secondly men being AGAINST men, and How to Right that, "TRESPASS", according to Gods Way.


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Willie T

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Willie - stop fixating on that one video. What your'e doing is not emotionally healthy. I am not claiming that that one video is not doctored - I said that when I posted the video I learned from the accompanying article that the cop was fired. If you stop FIXATING you'll see that there are OTHER VIDEOS that show police all over America abusing people - some in very vile ways. That is INDISPUTABLE. What happened to my family and I is INDISPUTABLE. There are enough other videos that prove there is an epidemic of police abuse.

If you don't want to accept the truth that there are good cops but also bad then I can't help you. You seem to want to prove you're right in the court of public opinion. You may have other needs that have to be fulfilled that you have to explore.
There are 35,000 cities and towns in the U.S.A. (Between 750,000 and 850,000 officers) Of course you are going to find some incidents of abuse. There are abusive mothers in America also. Neither case constitutes an "epidemic."
 
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Taken

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Yes I know. I has been a struggle - I find it hard to forgive evil such as that when I feel someone hasn't been held accountable.

And that is your Burden, that you have to resolve, By Leaning on the Lords Wisdom...
IS what the Lord teaches, and we simply have be intent and pay attention to His teaching. And there is where your Joy will flourish and Burden dissolve.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Soverign Grace

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It is not the Church. Christ's Church is within a man. Man-made buildings are "supposed to be" A House of Prayer. Those who Officiate over the "House of Prayers" Can do so, when a dispute arises, BY the Official being the "mediator" of sorts, with the INTEND to land on an "agreement" between the two in dispute. It is the Official who CAN counsel one who is "renegging" on the agreement.

An agreement, must reveal the terms. Repay in incriminates, till when? Forever? Repay in full, and be finish with the agreement?

There is no price on a Body part. And why an agreement must be include the Terms, and duration of the Terms.

Hopefully, your husband will not SHUN off all Churches...Houses of Prayers...Because of what is deemed not resolved, and has no means to resolve, but to forgive them and move on.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
We weren't wise enough back then to know what to do. The old German saying proves true: We are too soon old and too late wise. My husband goes to church now, but he's more jaded - skeptical - but rightly so. We no longer accept when someone tells us they're a Christian - we are more careful. My husband did write to the family a short while ago and told them how messed up they are and how he doesn't trust people now. He never got a response. Jim, the big bible teacher never even answered. So I think they have guilty consciences to carry as well as being shunned - a lot of people don't like them, and they know it. So I guess they're being repaid somewhat. I just wish that my husband wouldn't have been fooled by them. Our pastor told me not to hold my husband too accountable because he said he's heard about the family and they fool a lot of people. So apparently the family is still spreading their sin and dirtying up the Christian community - it's a shame. Satan is having a field day with them and probably turning a lot of people away from God because of them. Our old pastor who left that church because of their sinful ways told me that they ruined an entire congregation. He said people will never step foot in a church again because of what they did at another church.

God dealt sternly with them but I wish their "church" would close down. It stands as something ugly - not something of God. They dishonored God.
 

Soverign Grace

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And that is your Burden, that you have to resolve, By Leaning on the Lords Wisdom...
IS what the Lord teaches, and we simply have be intent and pay attention to His teaching. And there is where your Joy will flourish and Burden dissolve.

Glory to God,
Taken
Thanks. I know what Scripture teaches. Sometimes it's a hard road. But I don't want to be on any other. It's just hard.
 
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Soverign Grace

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There are 35,000 cities and towns in the U.S.A. Of course you are going to find some incidents of abuse. There are abusive mothers in America also. Neither case constitutes an "epidemic."
If you want to get the last word in then have at it. It must fill some need in you to be proven right. Go ahead. Knock yourself out. After that ask God if there isn't some prideful need there. I'm done for the day. I'll pray for you Willie.
 

Taken

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There are 35,000 cities and towns in the U.S.A. Of course you are going to find some incidents of abuse. There are abusive mothers in America also. Neither case constitutes an "epidemic."

Agree.
"Abuse" has become a CATCHALL word, for a kid not getting to do WHAT "HE" wants....to
A person being robbed, beaten, harassed, etc.

It happens in ALL walks of life; Private, Public, Governments, and I am not yet convinced any ONE "sector" has reached "an epidemic" state of that being the NORMAL.

It for sure is the "NORMAL" for a "NEWS" agency TO "blast out on their Headlines"...since it is NOT "NEWS", WHEN
Private persons, Public behavior, Government Officials, Parents, Teachers, Clerics, etc. "ARE" behaving as "within the NORMAL".
IOW..."what is NEW or NEWS worthy to report about doing what is Expected".

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Willie T

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If you want to get the last word in then have at it. It must fill some need in you to be proven right. Go ahead. Knock yourself out. After that ask God if there isn't some prideful need there. I'm done for the day. I'll pray for you Willie.
I think that is about the 5th time you have said you were going to let this go. Do you finally mean it this time?
 
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Taken

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Thanks. I know what Scripture teaches. Sometimes it's a hard road. But I don't want to be on any other. It's just hard.

It is supposed to BE HARD. And that is what I was saying about drinking from the Same cup as Jesus did. It was HARD for Him, and the question He posed, IS: is a man WILLING to walk the Straight and Narrow...Because, IT WILL BE A HARD Road.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Taken

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Yes I know. I has been a struggle - I find it hard to forgive evil such as that when I feel someone hasn't been held accountable.

That is where, Remembrance of what God said....Vengeance is His...should come to you.

Everyone WILL be held Accountable.

God Bless,
Taken