when the vestiges of imperialism are removed

[Randy Kluth]

The Scriptures say the whole world will follow after Antichrist, but they do not indicate the whole world will be united, politically, under Antichrist. On the contrary, we are given his specific political base, a 10 nation, 7 leader confederation with himself presiding as emperor. This base, I believe, was determined to rise out of the 4th Kingdom of Daniel, which I believe was the Roman Empire. So the modern heir of the Roman Empire is Europe.

So since the ancient Roman Empire, what has been preventing the rise of Antichrist is a couple of things. One, the preaching of the Gospel, beginning in the Roman Empire, led to a Christian Roman Empire. In turn many European and non-European states proclaimed themselves "Christian states."

Following the initial Christianization of the Roman Empire, the imperial unity of Europe would be broken into a number of states, eventually led by 10 leaders and 10 countries. Then, an outburst of Christian apostasy would remove all restraint from the rise of Antichrist, to return Europe to imperial dominance in the world.

Globalism is leading in this direction. The vestiges of European imperialism currently continue in Russia, who is trying to recreate a Communist imperial system once again. But unless Russia itself is the Antichrist, I believe this effort will fail.

Imperialism dissolves with the rise of statism in Europe--something that has been happening for centuries now. What's new is the eclipse of Christian culture by antiChristian culture.

The new globalism, as well-intentioned as it may be in trying to resolve the world's powers, is wrong-headed and will lead to satanic elitist control over markets in the world. I'm very concerned about the attempt to turn money into some kind of world digital currency. This would rob us of our freedom to follow Christian culture, which is increasingly being viewed as intolerant and schismatic.

 

[WPM]

The Scriptures say the whole world will follow after Antichrist, but they do not indicate the whole world will be united, politically, under Antichrist. On the contrary, we are given his specific political base, a 10 nation, 7 leader confederation with himself presiding as emperor. This base, I believe, was determined to rise out of the 4th Kingdom of Daniel, which I believe was the Roman Empire. So the modern heir of the Roman Empire is Europe.

So since the ancient Roman Empire, what has been preventing the rise of Antichrist is a couple of things. One, the preaching of the Gospel, beginning in the Roman Empire, led to a Christian Roman Empire. In turn many European and non-European states proclaimed themselves "Christian states."

Following the initial Christianization of the Roman Empire, the imperial unity of Europe would be broken into a number of states, eventually led by 10 leaders and 10 countries. Then, an outburst of Christian apostasy would remove all restraint from the rise of Antichrist, to return Europe to imperial dominance in the world.

Globalism is leading in this direction. The vestiges of European imperialism currently continue in Russia, who is trying to recreate a Communist imperial system once again. But unless Russia itself is the Antichrist, I believe this effort will fail.

Imperialism dissolves with the rise of statism in Europe--something that has been happening for centuries now. What's new is the eclipse of Christian culture by antiChristian culture.

The new globalism, as well-intentioned as it may be in trying to resolve the world's powers, is wrong-headed and will lead to satanic elitist control over markets in the world. I'm very concerned about the attempt to turn money into some kind of world digital currency. This would rob us of our freedom to follow Christian culture, which is increasingly being viewed as intolerant and schismatic.

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is nonsensical.

 

[Randy Kluth]

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.

I agree that the Beast is an empire--I believe it to be the Roman Empire. There are verses that suggest the Beast is also a "man."

There is the "spirit" of Antichrist, and also the Antichrist himself. We have to decide if the Antichrist is an actual person.

2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.

I'm not sure how 2 Thes 2.10 says that? But in principle of course I agree--a literal human being cannot be in them that perish.

3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.

Agree.

4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.

Agree.

5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.

Agree.

6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”

I believe "666" is the numerical representation of the Roman king. I believe we are just being told that the Antichrist will be a king issuing out of the Roman imperial tradition.

7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is nonsensical.

Yea, I can't see that either. For me, the Beast is both a man and an empire. As an empire its imperial tradition began before the time of Christ. Pagan Rome in a sense "died" in the time of Theodosius. But it will be reconstituted under Antichrist, in my view.

I don't claim to have a lock on all this. Thanks for your input.

 

[Truth7t7]

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is nonsensical.

Your continued denial of a literal future human man that will be (Daniel's, Little Horn) (Paul's, Man Of Sin) (John's, The Beast) is "Scary"!

Your doctrine is hiding the identity of this future evil man, with wild claims he doesn't exist in the future "Scary"!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[WPM]

Your continued denial of a literal future human man that will be (Daniel's, Little Horn) (Paul's, Man Of Sin) (John's, The Beast) is "Scary"!

Your doctrine is hiding the identity of this future evil man, with wild claims he doesn't exist in the future "Scary"!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You failed to address every single point I presented. There is nothing I can do about that. Obviously, you have to. That is because it negates your thesis. I refer you back to my last post.

1. Do the 7 heads belong to the beast?
2. Do the 10 horns belong to the beast?
3. If so, who is this literal 7-headed human with 10 horns that you speak about?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Scriptures say the whole world will follow after Antichrist, but they do not indicate the whole world will be united, politically, under Antichrist. On the contrary, we are given his specific political base, a 10 nation, 7 leader confederation with himself presiding as emperor.

How are you coming up with this? I know it talks about the beast having ten horns and seven heads, but it indicates that as of the writing of Revelation 5 of the heads (kings/kingdoms) had fallen, so they had existed in the past, and one existed at the time that book was written. Assuming your reference to a future "10 nation, 7 leader confederation" is a reference to the ten horns and seven heads, I don't know how you are concluding that the seven heads would be part of a future confederation.

Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You failed to address every single point I presented.

At least he is consistent. He never addresses any of the points you present. I have had the same experience with him. The next time he addresses one of our points will be the first time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your continued denial of a literal future human man that will be (Daniel's, Little Horn) (Paul's, Man Of Sin) (John's, The Beast) is "Scary"!

Your doctrine is hiding the identity of this future evil man, with wild claims he doesn't exist in the future "Scary"!

Here he is. Scary indeed.

 

[Randy Kluth]

How are you coming up with this? I know it talks about the beast having ten horns and seven heads, but it indicates that as of the writing of Revelation 5 of the heads (kings/kingdoms) had fallen, so they had existed in the past, and one existed at the time that book was written. Assuming your reference to a future "10 nation, 7 leader confederation" is a reference to the ten horns and seven heads, I don't know how you are concluding that the seven heads would be part of a future confederation.

Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

That's a legitimate question. I'll explain to you how I view things unlike some others.
I see the "7 heads and 10 horns" as originating from Dan 7, where the Little Horn/Antichrist rules among 10 horns, or 10 kings, 3 of whom are defeated. For me, this means that Antichrist defeats 10 nations in Europe by overthrowing 3 major leaders over those nations. He therefore rules over the 7 remaining rulers, as well as over all 10 nations.

I assume this is Europe because in Dan 2 and 7 we read of a 4th Kingdom that takes us to the end of the age. I have to assume this is the Roman Empire, Following the history of imperial Rome we traverse all of history up until modern times, recognizing the Roman imperial tradition in the Holy Roman Empire and in the Byzantine Empire. And we recognize that this imperial tradition in modern times has been tempered and broken by a democratic philosophical activism.

The result has been the many states of both Eastern and Western Europe, which includes Russia. The dividing line between E. Europe and W. Europe is generally the difference between states having a Germanic heritage and states having a Slavic heritage.

The interpretation of Rev 17 was terrible for me for most of my life up until recently. I now view this chapter as a subtle way that the Apostle John was given to tell Christians this is how the Roman Imperial Tradition will come to its climax and end. John is given to use a couple of riddles to explain this, since it would seem seditious for John to openly proclaim that this is Rome!

So John hints that the 7 heads and 10 horns, even though a literal set of kings and nations, can be viewed as symbolic of 7 hills. And those 7 hills can symbolize Rome because Rome was known as a "city of 7 hills." The 7 hills can also be used as a symbol of 7 historical kingdoms familiar with those who have studied the Bible. Beginning with Egypt, we advance as follows: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the European coalition under Antichrist.

John indicated the 6th kingdom existed already in his own time. That would identify the 7 hills symbolism as Rome, which ultimately becomes the Kingdom of Antichrist.

 

[Truth7t7]

You failed to address every single point I presented. There is nothing I can do about that. Obviously, you have to. That is because it negates your thesis. I refer you back to my last post.

1. Do the 7 heads belong to the beast?
2. Do the 10 horns belong to the beast?
3. If so, who is this literal 7-headed human with 10 horns that you speak about?

Childish disregard of my clear response in "The Troll"

Once again and again, the scarlet color beast is a symbolic metaphor seen in the spiritual, that is fully explained in the literal interpretation given

The 7 heads are explained to be literal mountains, the 10 horns are explained to be literal kings

It's my belief the 7 literal mountains is where Jerusalem sits as shown

It's my belief the 10 kings will be a future recognized 10 lost tribes of Israel that each have a king/leader, and they will be given power quickly and support (The Beast) in going against a liberal Jerusalem

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 32137
Here he is. Scary indeed.

Laugh all you want, he will be a future literal human man, your denial and teaching others this is "Scary"!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Laugh all you want, he will be a future literal human man, your denial and teaching others this is "Scary"!

LOL

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's a legitimate question. I'll explain to you how I view things unlike some others.
I see the "7 heads and 10 horns" as originating from Dan 7, where the Little Horn/Antichrist rules among 10 horns, or 10 kings, 3 of whom are defeated. For me, this means that Antichrist defeats 10 nations in Europe by overthrowing 3 major leaders over those nations. He therefore rules over the 7 remaining rulers, as well as over all 10 nations.

I assume this is Europe because in Dan 2 and 7 we read of a 4th Kingdom that takes us to the end of the age. I have to assume this is the Roman Empire, Following the history of imperial Rome we traverse all of history up until modern times, recognizing the Roman imperial tradition in the Holy Roman Empire and in the Byzantine Empire. And we recognize that this imperial tradition in modern times has been tempered and broken by a democratic philosophical activism.

The result has been the many states of both Eastern and Western Europe, which includes Russia. The dividing line between E. Europe and W. Europe is generally the difference between states having a Germanic heritage and states having a Slavic heritage.

The interpretation of Rev 17 was terrible for me for most of my life up until recently. I now view this chapter as a subtle way that the Apostle John was given to tell Christians this is how the Roman Imperial Tradition will come to its climax and end. John is given to use a couple of riddles to explain this, since it would seem seditious for John to openly proclaim that this is Rome!

So John hints that the 7 heads and 10 horns, even though a literal set of kings and nations, can be viewed as symbolic of 7 hills. And those 7 hills can symbolize Rome because Rome was known as a "city of 7 hills." The 7 hills can also be used as a symbol of 7 historical kingdoms familiar with those who have studied the Bible. Beginning with Egypt, we advance as follows: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the European coalition under Antichrist.

John indicated the 6th kingdom existed already in his own time. That would identify the 7 hills symbolism as Rome, which ultimately becomes the Kingdom of Antichrist.

So, it seems that you're not trying to say that the "7 leaders" of the "10 nation 7 leader confederation" that you referenced are the 7 heads representing 7 kings/kindgoms, 5 of which had fallen and one of which existed when John wrote the book? That's what I was wondering about.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Childish disregard of my clear response in "The Troll"

Once again and again, the scarlet color beast is a symbolic metaphor seen in the spiritual, that is fully explained in the literal interpretation given

The 7 heads are explained to be literal mountains, the 10 horns are explained to be literal kings

It's my belief the 7 literal mountains is where Jerusalem sits as shown

It's my belief the 10 kings will be a future recognized 10 lost tribes of Israel that each have a king/leader, and they will be given power quickly and support (The Beast) in going against a liberal Jerusalem

Why do you think that the 7 heads are 7 literal mountains on which the woman sits? In Revelation 17:1 it says that the woman sits on many waters. Do you think the "many waters" are literal? I'm sure you don't because Rev 17:15 says that the many waters are "peoples, multitudes, nations and languages". It also talks about the woman sitting on the beast and the beast is not literal either. The mountains she sits on are not literal, either. A symbolic entity doesn't sit on literal things, it sits on symbolic things. In the Bible, the term mountains is sometimes used figuratively to refer to kingdoms, such as when it sometimes refers to God's kingdom as his "holy mountain", and that is what the seven heads represent - kingdoms. Seven historical kingdoms and their seven kings.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why do you think that the 7 heads are 7 literal mountains on which the woman sits? In Revelation 17:1 it says that the woman sits on many waters. Do you think the "many waters" are literal?

Your response is a "Distraction" from biblical truth, you know well that "Waters" is a symbolic metaphor also, and is fully explained in the literal interpretation as seen below, in people's and nations

How far will you continue to deny biblical truth, as you bend, twist, and tear, to support the reformed preterist error "SAD"

Revelation 17:15KJV
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your response is a "Distraction" from biblical truth, you know well that "Waters" is a symbolic metaphor also, and is fully explained in the literal interpretation as seen below, in people's and nations

Uh huh. And why do you not use that to help you discern that the symbolic woman, who is said to sit on the symbolic "many waters" and to sit on the symbolic beast, does not sit on literal things but rather symbolic things? The many waters she sits on symbolize something besides a literal many waters in reality. The beast she sits on symbolizes something besides a literal beast in reality. And the mountains she sits on symbolize something besides literal mountains in reality as well. This should not be hard to grasp, but since you are stubborn and use a flawed approach to intepreting scripture, you're not grasping it.

How far will you continue to deny biblical truth, as you bend, twist, and tear, to support the reformed preterist error "SAD"

I deny your many false interpretations of the Bible, not the biblical truths that your false interpretations contradict.

 

[Gottservant]

The Scriptures say the whole world will follow after Antichrist, but they do not indicate the whole world will be united, politically, under Antichrist. [...]

I concur with this statement. It (the anti-Christ's government) will be a government that fails, and serves as a warning to the nations.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So, it seems that you're not trying to say that the "7 leaders" of the "10 nation 7 leader confederation" that you referenced are the 7 heads representing 7 kings/kindgoms, 5 of which had fallen and one of which existed when John wrote the book? That's what I was wondering about.

Yes, the 7 heads and 10 horns are 7 European leaders and 10 European countries. John explains, via riddles, that the 7 heads can be viewed as 7 hills. The hills are quite literally the 7 hills of Rome. The hills are also metaphors for 7 successive kingdoms in history, beginning with Egypt and ending with Antichrist's Empire.

So the 7 heads and 10 horns are taken from Dan 7, indicating the political environment of Antichrist's geographical rule. But to identify this as something originating with ancient Rome, John turns the "7 heads" into a hint and a metaphor. The 7 hills is a hint of the 7 hills of Rome. And the 7 hills are a metaphor for 7 successive kingdoms, the 6th of which is Rome.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I concur with this statement. It (the anti-Christ's government) will be a government that fails, and serves as a warning to the nations.

Thanks. My educated opinion is that though the world is mesmerized by this leader, there will be a negative reaction in the world against him over time, leading to the Battle of Armageddon. But I don't know this for sure. I'm open....

 

[Truth7t7]

Uh huh. And why do you not use that to help you discern that the symbolic woman, who is said to sit on the symbolic "many waters" and to sit on the symbolic beast, does not sit on literal things but rather symbolic things? The many waters she sits on symbolize something besides a literal many waters in reality. The beast she sits on symbolizes something besides a literal beast in reality. And the mountains she sits on symbolize something besides literal mountains in reality as well. This should not be hard to grasp, but since you are stubborn and use a flawed approach to intepreting scripture, you're not grasping it.


I deny your many false interpretations of the Bible, not the biblical truths that your false interpretations contradict.

Your response is a "Distraction" from biblical truth, you know well that "Waters" is a symbolic metaphor also, and is fully explained in the literal interpretation as seen below, in people's and nations

How far will you continue to deny biblical truth, as you bend, twist, and tear, to support the reformed preterist error "SAD"