When to look for the rapture of the church

[stunnedbygrace]

I do agree, epi, that religion is escapist. I think it's a deal to cheat death. Like...some sleight of hand designed to tie Gods hands and force Him into...having no recourse for a man's unbelief.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I understand and agree with what you have said. But I think it is possible to have a leaning toward a pretrib gathering while giving up your life and dying daily for others great good and walking in power. I just think it takes some of us a long time and a lot of pruning.

A dear friend of mine several years ago attended a bible college. He said one of his professors said, “Pray for pre, live for post.”

 

[Taken]

Interesting....so those who are expecting some rapture , stay prepared and keep their nose clean- “so that they are ready to go”....but those of us who expect nothing , walk close to God NOT to get taken out, but BEACUSE Of their LOVE for The FATHER...’just because ‘....

The Converted are prepared, whether or not if you know when He shall call His Church up to Him.

All must believe in God, Father and Son, before they can be Saved and Born Again.

The majority of the Jews are half way there, and guess what....no one is Preaching Christ Jesus to them.

And why the two witness are sent, and why the 144,000 Jews to the Jews during the tribulation, so they can be saved.

People argue over the pre- mid- end- trib, when there is saving going on during all three times...depends on the individual, and what they believe and when.

It is redemption a time, ^^ gathering of souls In Christ. and then after, the resurrection times, also not all at once, the raising of bodies.

Christ's Church, ie the Converted, are the only ones fully prepared, before trib begins, and the Rapture only applies to Christ's Church.

But other souls, saved during the trib, are also raise up to "heaven"... not the clouds.

People ON earth during the Trib, are ON earth Because they are not yet Converted.

It is Separation time.

And no where does it say, Converted Gentiles remain on earth and suffer the Wrath or go about helping Jews to become Converted.

We don't do that now, and we won't do that during the Trib. God has already appoint Jews for that purpose.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib.

The problem with too many Christians nowadays is asking for EXPLICIT statements about everything, as though God gave us a textbook.

There is no explicit statement about a pre-tribulation Rapture. However, it is implied in the sequence of events which must occur before the Second Coming of Christ, and the nature of God's salvation.

At the same time John 14:1 can be interpreted as telling us indirectly that Christians are not to concern themselves with the Tribulation, since the context is precisely that of the Rapture:

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

No doubt, Jesus said "Let not your heart be troubled" since He was to be crucified shortly, and that would be very troublesome to His apostles and disciples. They had not fully believed that He would rise again the third day, let alone return for them and take them to Heaven. So to them it would be a huge blow. Even after the angels told them He was risen, they did not really believe it.

However, by looking at the whole passage we can see that Christ is telling us indirectly that there is no Tribulation and Great Tribulation for those who are in Christ. Because both periods are times of God's wrath on the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked (Revelation 6-18). Thus Paul also tells Christians in the context of the Rapture to be comforted, not troubled:

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. (1 Thess 5:9-11)

This ties in with what he said earlier about the Rapture: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess 4:16-18)

The Blessed Hope of the Rapture is meant to give Christians comfort. It is NOT escapism as some foolishly suggest, but THE CULMINATION OF SALVATION -- the perfection of the saints. Christ already told us that "in this world ye shall have tribulation" (Jn 16:33) which refers to the trials, tribulation, testings, and martyrdoms of the saints. But the saints are NOT reserved for God's wrath, and that is clearly illustration by Enoch, Noah and Lot.

In fact, when Abraham pleaded with God regarding Sodom, he was assured that if ten righteous persons were to be found there, God would not pour out His wrath on Sodom and Gomorrah. But since that was not the case, He did. At the same time, He sent angels to rescue Lot and his family, and literally drag them out of Sodom. This illustrates the Rapture BEFORE the Tribulation and Great Tribulation (which follows).

 

[Taken]

But see, you can't say posttrib is not prepared and that only pretrib is prepared.

Sure I can. A man is either IN Christ or he isn't.

THose NOT in Christ, [but believing in God) have opportunity During the Trib. And that is while they are subject to the Wrath of the Lamb, for them having Not believe in Christ Jesus.

Once "they" ^^ are all Killed, their souls together go up to heaven, not the clouds.

It is the last half of the Trib, where those unbelieving in God suffer the Wrath of God.

All the saved souls have been redeemed, and there after, at the end....of the trib...

Bodies of the believing are raised, in glory.
And bodies of the dead are raised to hell and damnation.

And a few are saved...Physically, who believe, but were not killed...they shall repopulated the earth, during the 1,000 yr resign.

I've met people from both sides who I worry for, who seem to me to attached to the world and its things and who are in constant worry about money rather than trust.

There are many IN Christ, who still live like they are of the world.
That doesn't change their salvation, but does change their blessings.

God decides who is in need of more dross needing to be removed and God prunes. To me, it is a little bit arrogant to assume I will be counted worthy to escape that time of testing rather than to trust God to do what is best and what is right concerning me.

I believe you are in error if you think the trib is for a time of "testing". Every day, since Conversion you have been tested, ridiculed, mocked, hated....because you believed and became converted.

Why you want to be in harms way while the Lord God is destroying people with the earth, is beyond me, when scripture tells you they are not subject to His wrath.

I am Converted and forever with the Lord and He with me. The Lord God is NOT going to BE ON EARTH while He is destroying the people, structures, and every corrupt evil thing ON the earth.

If I need more pruning/dying/dross removed, I am okay with what He decides, because it will be for my great good. He always does whatever is right.

And what He has told us is to trust, believe, confess, repent and His Wrath would not be appointed to us, nor would He ever leave us.

So, I trust to believe, where He is, so shall I be. He was NOT ON the earth when He destroyed the earth with Water, nor shall He be on the earth when He destroys the earth with fire, quakes, etc.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And no where does it say, Converted Gentiles remain on earth and suffer the Wrath



Glory to God,
Taken

I snipped this out to make an observation. It could be argued that some may remain for further purging of dross, based on: and pray that you will be counted worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world to test its people.

Why are we told to pray this if there is no reason to pray it?

 

[Taken]

Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib.

You would require a toddler Bible.

The Big kids Bible is knowledge gathered from numerous passages.

The Understanding is given by God, to those who read AND STUDY the Knowledge.

A serious student would know, and never ask for an elementary one script tells all.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But yes, I agree we don't face His wrath. Satan's wrath as sifting, perhaps, but not for our harm, never for our harm. God works all things to our good, not our harm.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You would require a toddler Bible.

The Big kids Bible is knowledge gathered from numerous passages.

The Understanding is given by God, to those who read AND STUDY the Knowledge.

A serious student would know, and never ask for an elementary one script tells all.

Glory to God,
Taken

Is it necessary to talk to your brother this way?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Personally, I'm pre-wrath and I believe that and post-trib to be the closest to what the bible teaches.

Personally, I'm Pre-wrath and Post-Trib. Not sure if I've heard anyone else teach it like I do, but I agree with you that the typical Pre-wrath and Post-trib positions have the most support from scripture.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sure I can. A man is either IN Christ or he isn't.

THose NOT in Christ, [but believing in God) have opportunity During the Trib. And that is while they are subject to the Wrath of the Lamb, for them having Not believe in Christ Jesus.

Once "they" ^^ are all Killed, their souls together go up to heaven, not the clouds.

It is the last half of the Trib, where those unbelieving in God suffer the Wrath of God.

All the saved souls have been redeemed, and there after, at the end....of the trib...

Bodies of the believing are raised, in glory.
And bodies of the dead are raised to hell and damnation.

And a few are saved...Physically, who believe, but were not killed...they shall repopulated the earth, during the 1,000 yr resign.



There are many IN Christ, who still live like they are of the world.
That doesn't change their salvation, but does change their blessings.



I believe you are in error if you think the trib is for a time of "testing". Every day, since Conversion you have been tested, ridiculed, mocked, hated....because you believed and became converted.

Why you want to be in harms way while the Lord God is destroying people with the earth, is beyond me, when scripture tells you they are not subject to His wrath.

I am Converted and forever with the Lord and He with me. The Lord God is NOT going to BE ON EARTH while He is destroying the people, structures, and every corrupt evil thing ON the earth.



And what He has told us is to trust, believe, confess, repent and His Wrath would not be appointed to us, nor would He ever leave us.

So, I trust to believe, where He is, so shall I be. He was NOT ON the earth when He destroyed the earth with Water, nor shall He be on the earth when He destroys the earth with fire, quakes, etc.

Glory to God,
Taken

I think you don't listen very well. You talk quite well, but listening and pondering is not your strong suit.

The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Personally, I'm Pre-wrath and Post-Trib. Not sure if I've heard anyone else teach it like I do, but I agree with you that the typical Pre-wrath and Post-trib positions have the most support from scripture.

You are pleasant to listen to and talk with. Did I ever tell you that? :)

 

[SovereignGrace]

You would require a toddler Bible.

The Big kids Bible is knowledge gathered from numerous passages.

The Understanding is given by God, to those who read AND STUDY the Knowledge.

A serious student would know, and never ask for an elementary one script tells all.

Glory to God,
Taken

I have been civil. Childish behavior like this puts you in my ignore box.

Good day sir.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Is it necessary to talk to your brother this way?

He’s tucked away nicely now.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have been civil. Childish behavior like this puts you in my ignore box.

Good day sir.

Is it an awfully small box? And will you please at least poke some holes in the lid...?

 

[Taken]

I snipped this out to make an observation. It could be argued that some may remain for further purging of dross, based on: and pray that you will be counted worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world to test its people.

Why are we told to pray this if there is no reason to pray it?

Why are to told to Pray at all?

Because...Our communication with the Lord is not verbal face to face, short wave radio, via phone, via texting, facebook, etc.

Our communication with the Lord is via PRAYER.

Why communicate with the Lord IN AGREEMENT, talking of what Scripture says?

rev 22
[20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

He says He Shall come quickly.
I pray in agreement with Him...
Yes, Lord come quickly.

No need for the Lord to descend to the clouds and then say....oh wait, hummm, "I think that guy needs a little dose of faith, before he is made whole....let ME (Lord) wait until he gets around to it.

Men are on Gods time frame when He chooses to collect/redeem His Church, men are either Converted or they are not...after all they have only had 2,000 + years to learn about it.

I have already COME to Christ...Do I somehow require more testing to see "IF" I am going to come to Christ? rather redundant don't you think?

Glory to God,
taken

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He’s tucked away nicely now.

Do what you think is best, but don't forget to also try to bear with us when you can. :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Why are to told to Pray at all?

Because...Our communication with the Lord is not verbal face to face, short wave radio, via phone, via texting, facebook, etc.

Our communication with the Lord is via PRAYER.

Why communicate with the Lord IN AGREEMENT, talking of what Scripture says?

rev 22
[20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

He says He Shall come quickly.
I pray in agreement with Him...
Yes, Lord come quickly.

No need for the Lord to descend to the clouds and then say....oh wait, hummm, "I think that guy needs a little dose of faith, before he is made whole....let ME (Lord) wait until he gets around to it.

Men are on Gods time frame when He chooses to collect/redeem His Church, men are either Converted or they are not...after all they have only had 2,000 + years to learn about it.

I have already COME to Christ...Do I somehow require more testing to see "IF" I am going to come to Christ? rather redundant don't you think?

Glory to God,
taken

Further testing doesn't involve coming to Christ. It involves growing in trust.

 

[Taken]

Is it necessary to talk to your brother this way?

were you seriously looking for A scripture to tell you all about the tribulation? It appeared so.

THis is not the first time the Rapture or tribulation topic has been on this forum...and many many scriptures have been posted on those topics....

And while many reject the Rapture, even after being shown scripture and told what it means, they continue to reject, without ever supporting their own reasoning with Scripture, or even acknowledging they have studied any verses regarding the topic.

So it does get old, when one asks for A Scripture for such an indepth study.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Hidden In Him]

You are pleasant to listen to and talk with. Did I ever tell you that? :)

Well that's a nice thing to say!
I've noticed that I'm slowly becoming a kinder and better person the older I get... but I wasn't aware anyone else thought so as well, LoL.

Thanks for the nice compliment. Hopefully I can keep living up to it. :)