When to look for the rapture of the church

[Taken]

Never

Awe.

 

[Taken]

Agree...some will be in for a shock when it doesn't happen.
( and they are not prepared to 'stand'. )

The ones in shock, are not prepared.
And the prepared, are expecting to be lift up above the earth, Because they ARE Saved.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Whatever.

I do not "believe in" or expect to see the church zapped out of trouble.

You are clear you do not believe the Converted will be lifted up above the earth and not subject to wrath.

But really, why MOCK

(Escape, escape, escape, Zap, zap, zap....as if it is a cartoonish Batman event)
No one believing in the Rapture uses such mocking terms.

others who do believe the Lord shall lift up the saved, above the earth, just as God cause Noah's ark to be Lift up above the earth, when destruction was ON the earth....Because he was faithful?

I expect to see God with us through trouble...as He has always promised.

Jesus came to DIVIDE. For 2,000 + years, every Converted man has had solice and comfort in the Lord, dispite the hardships and mocking and persecution of unbelievers.

The end days are about finishing the DIVISION...and SEPARATION, and WRATH upon those who rejected God and rejected Christ.

No one says...who rejects the Rapture...
But what exactly are SAVED men going to be DOING on the Earth...during the Tribulation?

But, more power to your elbow....just keep you eyes on the Lord Himself...not for any escape.

Keep your eyes on the Lord Himself....?

Why would a Converted man in Christ, need a reminder where to keep focused?

Would you please stop mocking and please answer...??

No one says...who rejects the Rapture...
But what exactly are SAVED men going to be DOING on the Earth...during the Tribulation?


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Actual stones.

Stranger

1 Corinthians 15:50
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Interesting....so those who are expecting some rapture , stay prepared and keep their nose clean- “so that they are ready to go”....but those of us who expect nothing , walk close to God NOT to get taken out, but BEACUSE Of their LOVE for The FATHER...’just because ‘....

No...I was trying to get you to see that to walk closely with God does not require a certain end time view. I was not saying anything bad about either leaning. Hence my saying, "an argument could be made for..."

You will know them by their fruit, not by their end time view.

 

[Taken]

Of course. There is no rapture

Why? God wants the saved to suffer WRATH? ...Like Noah? The faithful...Poor thing,( He had to remain ON earth and learn to swim for a year so he wouldn't drown ... eh? ) lol



Taken

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I’m not even insisting it must be an angel. My only point is that the text itself is vague; it doesn’t give us the information to make a “positive identification” on the restrainer. So trying to insist it has to be “this” or “that” is forcing something into the text that simply isn’t there. The intent of the text is to tell us what will happen, not the specifics of the who.

I agree that those who suspect a pretrib gathering together often skew vss to their view. Those who suspect no pretrib gathering together also do this. I myself suspect a pretrib gathering, but I see the inconsistencies/assumptions of my likeminded brothers.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is an interesting thought. Daniel came into the presence of what I believe is an angel in Daniel 10. It is not Michael, as Michael was said to have came and helped him. He knew Gabriel per Daniel 9:21. So, it must have been an unnamed angel. I got this from another site as I was perusing the web to glean more from your post here. Who is the man in Daniel's vision in Daniel 10?

Then, as you said, in Revelation 20, an angel, unnamed again, was able to bind Satan. Then Michael was able to rebuke Satan when contending for Moses' body in Jude 1:9.

So there is much merit in your post. I am not entirely convinced, as I need to flesh this out some more, but a thought provoking post, indeed.

I agree. There's a lot of merit in her post.

 

[Stranger]

1 Corinthians 15:50
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I indicated that there will be a temple built before Christ returns. It will be rebuilt and in it one day the anti-christ will set up the abomination of desolation. (Matt. 24:15-16) (Eph. 2:3-4) The Jews will be offering sacrifices which cannot occur without a temple. (Dan. 9:27)

That the Church is the temple of God today, yes. But that is not the temple spoken of here.

Stranger

 

[Taken]

Christ is where my hope is, not some doctrine of evangelicals.

Try Jesus' doctrine.

Where is John, the faithful SAVED and QUICKENED servant of Jesus, when Jesus "shows" him what will happen on earth when the Tribulation begins?

Taken

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I indicated that there will be a temple built before Christ returns. It will be rebuilt and in it one day the anti-christ will set up the abomination of desolation. (Matt. 24:15-16) (Eph. 2:3-4) The Jews will be offering sacrifices which cannot occur without a temple. (Dan. 9:27)

That the Church is the temple of God today, yes. But that is not the temple spoken of here.

Stranger

Only meant that ‘actual’ stone is dead part of the corruption and you are saying they build it up again ...why would God call it abomination what they do in this dead temple made with men’s hands?

 

[Taken]

Where I part ways with dispensationalism is the pre-trib rapture and the separation of Israel(Jews) and the church. Both are one in Christ.

No they are not. That is the point.
Tribulation is for those NOT believing in God....AND........the Christ Jesus Messiah.

Very few Jews believe in Christ Jesus the Messiah.

They suffer the FIRST part of the Tribulation...
The WRATH OF THE LAMB......precisely because they (majority) DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus is the Christ Messiah.

Men IN Christ Jesus are In the clouds WITH the Lord.

Rev 6 The LAMB opens the SEALS...beginning of the Tribulation.
Rev 6 Wrath of the LAMB 1-5 SEALS Opened

Why will the Wrath of the LAMB come upon those IN Christ?

Yes, I see a fulfillment of the engrafting of the Jews and then God dealing with the Jews. However, I don’t think that means they are separate entities, but one ppl in Christ.

Not Yet. Who has been teaching the Jews for 2000 + years...to believe in Christ Jesus?

Jews? No
Gentiles? No
The NT? No

God will send to them DURING the tribulation...2 Witnesses and 144,000 JEWS to teach the Jews, and THEN their souls can be saved, risen up to heaven, their spirits quickened, risen up to heaven, and their Bodies killed in the chaos on earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

It depends on how you read it. On the one hand, He is coming suddenly, like lightning, and that day will not surprise and overtake some people. They will be ready. So pray you will be found worthy to escape that day of testing coming on the whole world to test its people.

On the other hand, the sign of His coming will be seen in the sky and men will mourn, and will cry to the rocks to cover them from Him, which sounds much different than suddenly.

It may sound different because two different timeframes/events are spoken of in different vss.

Will He come from Bozrah with His robes stained red, as one vs says, or will He descend with a shout and gather His elect?

And what of the two reapings spoken of in Rev? Could it have to do with them? Could the first one be suddenly and the second one be for the elect who required more testing to be purified?

It's all very fascinating.

Jesus, the Son of Man, with Power/ Christ, descends from heaven to the clouds...
And takes UP to Him...His Chruch.

The Second "COMING" is When Christ Jesus, comes DOWN "TO EARTH" .

That does not happen BEFORE or DURING the Tribulation.

The Tribulation is WRATH, distruction, chaos....and the Lord is ABOVE the Earth, during that time, so also is ALL the saved and quickened......

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The ones in shock, are not prepared.
And the prepared, are expecting to be lift up above the earth, Because they ARE Saved.

Glory to God,
Taken

But see, you can't say posttrib is not prepared and that only pretrib is prepared. I've met people from both sides who I worry for, who seem to me to attached to the world and its things and who are in constant worry about money rather than trust.

God decides who is in need of more dross needing to be removed and God prunes. To me, it is a little bit arrogant to assume I will be counted worthy to escape that time of testing rather than to trust God to do what is best and what is right concerning me. If I need more pruning/dying/dross removed, I am okay with what He decides, because it will be for my great good. He always does whatever is right.

 

[SovereignGrace]

No they are not. That is the point.
Tribulation is for those NOT believing in God....AND........the Christ Jesus Messiah.

Very few Jews believe in Christ Jesus the Messiah.

They suffer the FIRST part of the Tribulation...
The WRATH OF THE LAMB......precisely because they (majority) DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus is the Christ Messiah.

Men IN Christ Jesus are In the clouds WITH the Lord.

Rev 6 The LAMB opens the SEALS...beginning of the Tribulation.
Rev 6 Wrath of the LAMB 1-5 SEALS Opened

Why will the Wrath of the LAMB come upon those IN Christ?



Not Yet. Who has been teaching the Jews for 2000 + years...to believe in Christ Jesus?

Jews? No
Gentiles? No
The NT? No

God will send to them DURING the tribulation...2 Witnesses and 144,000 JEWS to teach the Jews, and THEN their souls can be saved, risen up to heaven, their spirits quickened, risen up to heaven, and their Bodies killed in the chaos on earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib.

I think that is impossible. It is gleaned (by some) through what they see as a preponderance of evidence. There is no smoking gun. Its all of scripture, along with how God acted in the past, that leads a man to suspect a pretrib gathering together.

 

[Episkopos]

I think it is telling that the rapture is reduced to only one kind of reference from the bible.....to escape this world physically at no cost to ourselves. Religion is escapist by design.

But most of the references to rapture (harpazo) involves walking in the Spirit in Zion while we yet live. Far from being escapist in nature, these verses point to a walk by the same power as Jesus walked in. It involves a spiritual transformation or translation into God's very presence. It is an equipping for miraculous ministry. Yet no one in the church seems interested in this present power that overcomes the world. No one seeks for this resurrection power and testimony.

Why not?

The cost of course.

Religion is about getting the easy free stuff. But where are the followers of Christ...those who are willing to suffer to bring salvation to the world?

?

 

[bbyrd009]

^nice, ty

This event....

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Will happen at this time....

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ

I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.

looking with both eyes there, are you?
keep looking up!

 

[bbyrd009]

I indicated that there will be a temple built before Christ returns.

and I for one appreciate you so boldly announcing your vision that will be seen with two eyes, ty

The Jews will be offering sacrifices which cannot occur without a temple. (Dan. 9:27)

lots of Jews offering literal sacrifices right now fwiw, not that that is very relevant I guess, strictly a reflection of IRL imo

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think it is telling that the rapture is reduced to only one kind of reference from the bible.....to escape this world physically at no cost to ourselves. Religion is escapist by design.

But most of the references to rapture (harpazo) involves walking in the Spirit in Zion while we yet live. Far from being escapist in nature, these verses point to a walk by the same power as Jesus walked in. It involves a spiritual transformation or translation into God's very presence. It is an equipping for miraculous ministry. Yet no one in the church seems interested in this present power that overcomes the world. No one seeks for this resurrection power and testimony.

Why not?

The cost of course.

Religion is about getting the easy free stuff. But where are the followers of Christ...those who are willing to suffer to bring salvation to the world?

?

I understand and agree with what you have said. But I think it is possible to have a leaning toward a pretrib gathering while giving up your life and dying daily for others great good and walking in power. I just think it takes some of us a long time and a lot of pruning.