When, where, or how was free will taken away?

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GodsGrace

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This has NOTHING to do with Calvinism. The explanation works with Wesleyean Arminianism as well.
The issue is that I cannot explain to somene that refuses to have a conversation.

You want a one sentence answer, then claim you do not understand the one sentence answer.
So I give an in depth exegetical answer that you ignore and simply repeat the question.

Then I attempt to guide you step by step to the answer, but you just want to argue about Calvinism (which has nothing to do with the question or answer) and refuse to continue even as far as step 2 (Why people do not want to die).

Do not lay this failure at my feet. I only came back to this site because you asked where I was and wanted to talk. I have tried to talk, but you are the one that has no real interest in listening to anything. When I ask you a question, I listen for your answer and build on it. I have not told you "THIS is what you believe and your belief is wrong."

You need to get over your irrational hatred of Calvinism. Everything is not about Calvinism. Calvinism just means "God chooses people BEFORE people accept God" and Arminianism just means "people choose God BEFORE God accepts people". Everything is not about that distinction.
And that is what I am TOTALLY against:
God choosing people.

WE choose to believe or not believe.
We are not so totally depraved that we cannot make a choice.
We still have our free will intact.

I talk about the above,
You talk about how we cannot talk.

IF I don't understand you, why not just correct instead of complaining that I don't understand.

It seems to me that I understand persons really well.
REALLY well.
And IF I don't, I ask questions.

I answered everyone of your questions...
even silly ones about me pouring gasoline over myself and setting myself on fire.
Just get to the point for goodness sake.

I don't have a lot of time to spend here.
If you want it to be BYE...so be it.
 

GodsGrace

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Thank you, somebody got the point of those first two questions ... "People want to LIVE and do not want to DIE."


Every "sane" person would agree.


I have no intention of blaming God for any mistakes.
However, do you mind if I ask YOU the second part of the discission that "GodsGrace" had no patience for:

Why do you want to live and not die?
(Is there any way that someone could convince you to die?)
Oh my.
Did you think I'm not sane?
Maybe you could have ASSUMED that I'm sane?

You take little, tiny, baby steps.
Yes. This DOES require a lot of patience.
 

atpollard

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And that is what I am TOTALLY against:
God choosing people.

WE choose to believe or not believe.
We are not so totally depraved that we cannot make a choice.
We still have our free will intact.

I talk about the above,
You talk about how we cannot talk.

Silly me, and here I thought you wanted to know:
When, where, or how was free will taken away?
 

atpollard

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Oh my.
Did you think I'm not sane?
Maybe you could have ASSUMED that I'm sane?

You take little, tiny, baby steps.
Yes. This DOES require a lot of patience.
I thought you wanted to discuss "When, where, or how was free will taken away?" but you have corrected my misunderstanding that that was never what you came to discuss.
 

Giuliano

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Thank you, somebody got the point of those first two questions ... "People want to LIVE and do not want to DIE."


Every "sane" person would agree.


I have no intention of blaming God for any mistakes.
However, do you mind if I ask YOU the second part of the discission that "GodsGrace" had no patience for:

Why do you want to live and not die?
(Is there any way that someone could convince you to die?)
I don't think about it. If God wants me to live, that's fine. If not, that's also fine. After all, if I'm dead, I wouldn't know it.

There are some instances where I think I would rather risk dying over living if I could save another life. I would hate myself if I was such a coward; and the rest of my life would be filled with self-loathing -- it wouldn't be worth living.
 
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atpollard

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I don't think about it. If God wants me to live, that's fine. If not, that's also fine. After all, if I'm dead, I wouldn't know it.

There are some instances where I think I would rather risk dying over living if I could save another life. I would hate myself if I was such a coward; and the rest of my life would be filled with self-loathing -- it wouldn't be worth living.
What about before you were a Christian (but were still sane). :)
 

Giuliano

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What about before you were a Christian (but were still sane). :)
It wouldn't matter. Life would still not be worth living if I knew I was such a coward. Some things come to me almost without thinking. When I was about six, my mother and a neighbor woman were walking behind me and the neighbor kid who was about three who was ahead of me. Another neighbor, who often drove drunk, was coming up the road; and almost without thinking, I dashed up, grabbed him and got him off the road. I knew the adults wouldn't have time.

When I was about twenty, I wasn't a Christian. I lived with two drunks. The woman got into a quarrel with her boyfriend and said she was going to kill him. I got in front of her and told her she'd have to stab me first. She said she would. I told her go ahead if she really wanted to, but I didn't think she really wanted to. She looked at me, put down the knife and admitted she didn't want to kill me or anyone.

You don't have to be a Christian to care about others.
 
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GodsGrace

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I thought you wanted to discuss "When, where, or how was free will taken away?" but you have corrected my misunderstanding that that was never what you came to discuss.
Of course it was.
I gave you a three page reply for your other thread.
I told you why we still have free will.

YOU have never shown my WHEN, WHERE OR HOW we lost it.
You prefer to argue.
I don't argue this much with my husband.

If you have a statement re the thread's O.P., fine...
otherwise the discussion is ended.
 

GodsGrace

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Thank you, somebody got the point of those first two questions ... "People want to LIVE and do not want to DIE."


Every "sane" person would agree.


I have no intention of blaming God for any mistakes.
However, do you mind if I ask YOU the second part of the discission that "GodsGrace" had no patience for:

Why do you want to live and not die?
(Is there any way that someone could convince you to die?)
People want to live and not die?
THIS is what you were getting at?

One doesn't have to be a psychiatrist to know that MOST PERSONS want to live and not die.

Now you want to discuss WHY?
What does this have to do with free will?
How many more posts will it take to get to your FINAL POINT?
 

atpollard

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How many more posts will it take to get to your FINAL POINT?
I couldn't get you to see the basic truth that most people want to live and not die and I could not get you to even attempt to discuss "WHY" ... so what chance do I have in getting you to see the "final point" even if it was coming up next. [shrug]
 

GodsGrace

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I couldn't get you to see the basic truth that most people want to live and not die and I could not get you to even attempt to discuss "WHY" ... so what chance do I have in getting you to see the "final point" even if it was coming up next. [shrug]
You have to GET ME TO SEE the basic truth that most people want to live and not die?
And you want to explain WHY?
That's pretty funny A.

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