When, where, or how was free will taken away?

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes,,,of course it's not willingly. We all suffer because Adam sinned...we all are affected by that sin; including nature.

But you go a step further, wondering who put the tree there in the first place...or WHY, if God is all-good and knows the future. Was what we go through worth His plan?

Consider Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

How Paul could say that ...I'm not sure. I’m thinking God showed him this glory. His word compares what is ahead to a woman in Labour forgetting the painful contractions once New Life is laid within her arms ...the suffering will not be worthy to be compared to what is born out of all of this. Certainly God is good!

 

[atpollard]

A, please stop.
From my responses it sounds like I'd like to get to the point.

Stopping.

 

[Jay Ross]

When-where-or-how-was-free-will-taken-away is the title of this thread.

Now let me first state that I cannot forcibly take away from anyone, their free will.

However, I can encourage people to give me their free will and they often do so willingly.

Now I believe that I have shown, when, where and how people can lose their free will. This is how Satan works.

 

[GodsGrace]

Consider Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

How Paul could say that ...I'm not sure. I’m thinking God showed him this glory. His word compares what is ahead to a woman in Labour forgetting the painful contractions once New Life is laid within her arms ...the suffering will not be worthy to be compared to what is born out of all of this. Certainly God is good!

I do believe God showed Paul the glory to come.
It was Paul, I believe, who "saw" heaven and HE is the person he was speaking of in
Corinthians (2).

Persons that experience NDE come back with the light of knowledge and fear nothing in this life, as they look forward to their future life.

 

[GodsGrace]

When-where-or-how-was-free-will-taken-away is the title of this thread.

Now let me first state that I cannot forcibly take away from anyone, their free will.

However, I can encourage people to give me their free will and they often do so willingly.

Now I believe that I have shown, when, where and how people can lose their free will. This is how Satan works.

Are you a philosopher?
LOL

This is what you said:
However, I can encourage people to give me their free will and they often do so willingly.

If you encourage people to give away their free will...
and they do it WILLINGLY....
Then they were using their FREE WILL to give it away.

Again, showing that man has free will.
Thanks for proving it in an interesting manner.

 

[Jay Ross]

Are you a philosopher?
LOL

Stone is my name

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I do believe God showed Paul the glory to come.
It was Paul, I believe, who "saw" heaven and HE is the person he was speaking of in
Corinthians (2).

Persons that experience NDE come back with the light of knowledge and fear nothing in this life, as they look forward to their future life.

Never had any near death experiences ...but think I’ve seen His glory. If I shared what that glory is ...doubtfully many would agree. Some may even hate it. But it is the reason for my feet hitting the floor every morning and possibly the reason Paul said to run the race ...it sure gives me motivation to not faint or grow weary and trust Him.

 

[Enoch111]

Are you a philosopher?

Sounds like a hypnotist.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sounds like a hypnotist.

That's good too!

 

[Taken]

When, where, or how was free will taken away? <---OP

Briefly;

Freewill regarding mankind has to do with an Individual MAKING Choices, regarding ANY...thing.

WHEN: anytime during a mans natural life time.

WHERE: any place

HOW:
Secularly ~ A person can have their Freewill taken from them, via parents, teachers, employers, spouses, incarceration, for example.

Spiritually ~ A person can "GIVE" TO:
Thee Lord God His authority over a mans;
soul and spirit and body.
VIA...Conversion.

Spiritually ~ A person can "GIVE" TO;
Satan his authority over a mans;
body.
VIA...Rejecting Conversion.
VIA...Taking the Mark of the Beast.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

WHEN: anytime during a mans natural life time.

None of your examples illustrates that any person's free will is "taken away". But it is true that we can surrender our wills either to God or to others. But that is still A CHOICE.

God did not take away mankind's free will at any time. The whole Bible illustrates that. What we do see is men and women either surrendering their wills to God, or being self-willed.

And the person who originated this thread has still not publicly admitted that he has submitted to the Word of God (many Scriptures given) and rejected this FALSE DOCTRINE of no free will.

 

[Taken]

None of your examples illustrates that any person's free will is "taken away". But it is true that we can surrender our wills either to God or to others. But that is still A CHOICE.

I gave a BRIEF comment.

I believe "IF" something is "OFFERED" to an other; for the other to "possess" what is offered....the other "TAKES" what is offered.

Regarding FREEWILL of a man...
The "FREEWILL" of man is Comprised of...
TWO components (so to speak).
THOUGHTS...
And
PHYSICAL...

And In that respect...
A man CAN "TAKE" from an other man (by agreement OR against the man "will"...
the FREEWILL thoughts of the other man;
...THROUGH (brainwashing, drugs, etc.)
AND
The FREEWILL physical restraint;
...THROUGH (binding, prison, etc.)

ALSO...the other man ... CAN himself AGREE,
(By his own CONSENT)...
TO GIVE permission for any OTHER MAN, to
"TAKE" the FREEWILL of the man...
THROUGH...
Brainwashing, drugs, binding, prison, etc.

[QUOTE}
God did not take away mankind's free will at any time. [/QUOTE]

Here I disagree...
I am an indiviudal...MY FREEWILL belongs to ME...
I can OFFER and GIVE MY FREEWILL "entirely" or "portionally" TO "ANYONE" to whom...
I Decide and Please to do so.

The whole Bible illustrates that. What we do see is men and women either surrendering their wills to God, or being self-willed.

Here you use the WORD, "SURRENDER"...
That applies TO ONE, (in this scenario, the FREEWILL belongs to the individual.."surrendering".)

{And this is the Complication of these kinds of discussions...pointing out ....
There IS NO surrendering, giving, taking...
WITHOUT consideration, OF MORE THAN ONE PARTY....exercising their freewill or being forced).

So...the "individual" "surrenders"...
THEN WHAT? Which is the POINT...

The "THEN WHAT"...is the "SURRENDER" means NOTHING....if the other party...who is GOD, does not THEN..."TAKE" what the man surrendered!

It the same concept...Jesus came to Earth...
AND "OFFERED" eternal LIFE to the WHOLE world...

Jesus' "OFFERING"...was FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON every naturally born, or to be born upon the face of this Earth.

Jesus' "OFFERING"...IS FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON...TO DO WHAT? "TAKE" what Jesus OFFERED...(or NOT TAKE IT).

Was what Jesus' OFFERED..."forced" on every person? No.

Was what Jesus' OFFERED..."given" for every person? Yes.

And...does Every person HAVE the FREEWILL to "TAKE" or "REJECT" Jesus' offering? Yes

That IS THE POINT...
MEN can FORCE men to have their "freewill" thoughts altered.
MEN can FORCE men to have their "freewill" actions altered.

Thee Lord God "OFFERS"...
For God to give a man greater thoughts/truths than the natural man possesses.
And
For God to give a man a forever
Life regardless of his natural bodily life being sentenced to die.

God "OFFERS"...and the individual man WHO "FREELY", by his OWN "FREEWILL" elects and chooses TO "accept" and "take" Gods "OFFERING"...

THEN...Gods OFFERING SHALL Be GIVEN that individual.

And GOD SHALL "TAKE" what the man "SURRENDERED". (Gave to God).

You may not like the Word "TAKE"...
However...regarding the TWO PARTIES...
OF
God and man,

It is precisely about FREEWILL of the man to first learn of the Lord, and the Lords OFFERING, and FREELY CHOOSE....to consider, accept or reject, Gods offering...
And
The man FREELY CHOOSING to Offer God what the man possesses...TO OFFER.

Point being...
An OFFERING, (of one party to an other party) MUST BE "TAKEN", (by an other party), for the OFFERING TO BE "effected".

And the Offering, and Taking...is per the FREEWILL of the one party OFFERING, and the FREEWILL of the other party TAKING.

And that which ALSO ties into to this;
IS
Temptations......AND......Warnings.

That being;
Men are WARNED...to be INFORMED and CAUTIOUS....of WHO is offering WHAT...BEFORE a man "AGREES" to freely Accept what is "OFFERED", and agree to "GIVE" what is of his own TO GIVE.

And the person who originated this thread has still not publicly admitted that he has submitted to the Word of God (many Scriptures given) and rejected this FALSE DOCTRINE of no free will.

I don't know the person who started this thread. I also do not know his convictions.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[atpollard]

And the person who originated this thread has still not publicly admitted that he has submitted to the Word of God (many Scriptures given) and rejected this FALSE DOCTRINE of no free will.

Since you have complete free will to do ANYTHING, including things contrary to your innate nature ... why don’t you prove your position by exercising your free will to act contrary to your nature by flapping your arms to fly to heaven?

As for me, I will stick with the Ephesians 2:1-10 explanation that GOD saves those that are children of wrath, by grace through faith all a gift from God.


Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[Giuliano]

Since you have complete free will to do ANYTHING, including things contrary to your innate nature ... why don’t you prove your position by exercising your free will to act contrary to your nature by flapping your arms to fly to heaven?

It sounds to me as if you may be confusing free will with omnipotence.

 

[atpollard]

It sounds to me as if you may be confusing free will with omnipotence.

Birds are not omnipotent, but they can fly because flying is an innate ability not contrary to the nature of birds. Choosing God appears (from Ephesians 2 and Romans 3) to be an ability contrary to the innate nature of the “natural man” and is only enabled by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thus ...
Either prevenient grace or an irresistible draw, but not Pelagianism (Libertine Free Will).

Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[atpollard]

If you offer a pit bull a bowl of salad or a big juicy steak, his nature is such that he will always predictably and consistently choose the steak over the salad. In this case, the Pit bull cannot really be said to have [libertarian free will]. His choice was determined by his nature. It was not a free choice in this sense, but it was free because it's what the pit bull desired to choose. His choice was in perfect accord with his own nature and desires.

 

[Giuliano]

Birds are not omnipotent, but they can fly because flying is an innate ability not contrary to the nature of birds.

And people don't have that ability. They can't do everything they want.

Choosing God appears (from Ephesians 2 and Romans 3) to be an ability contrary to the innate nature of the “natural man” and is only enabled by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thus ...
Either prevenient grace or an irresistible draw, but not Pelagianism (Libertine Free Will).

Soli Deo Gloria!

People must still be willing. The Holy Spirit is not forcing them into something.

 

[GodsGrace]

Since you have complete free will to do ANYTHING, including things contrary to your innate nature ... why don’t you prove your position by exercising your free will to act contrary to your nature by flapping your arms to fly to heaven?

As for me, I will stick with the Ephesians 2:1-10 explanation that GOD saves those that are children of wrath, by grace through faith all a gift from God.


Soli Deo Gloria!

How totally dumb.

WHERE in THEOLOGY does it say that free will means we can fly?

Why don't you stick to scriptural and theological free will and quit debating
philosophical free will?

Scary isn't it?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you offer a pit bull a bowl of salad or a big juicy steak, his nature is such that he will always predictably and consistently choose the steak over the salad. In this case, the Pit bull cannot really be said to have [libertarian free will]. His choice was determined by his nature. It was not a free choice in this sense, but it was free because it's what the pit bull desired to choose. His choice was in perfect accord with his own nature and desires.

YOU are not an animal--an animal lives by INSTINCT.

YOU are a human being, made in the likeness of God.
Your nature has many attributes that God's nature has.
Do you even know any of them?

Do you consider yourself to be like an animal?

 

[GodsGrace]

Birds are not omnipotent, but they can fly because flying is an innate ability not contrary to the nature of birds. Choosing God appears (from Ephesians 2 and Romans 3) to be an ability contrary to the innate nature of the “natural man” and is only enabled by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thus ...
Either prevenient grace or an irresistible draw, but not Pelagianism (Libertine Free Will).

Soli Deo Gloria!

You should stop learning about Pelagianism and learn about the scriptures instead.

STOP following men,
and START following Jesus.