when will the two witnesses appear and WHO ARE THEY
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The Christian church got a lot of support from President Trump. Far more than they will get from Joe Biden, the supposedly good Catholic. Watch what happens. Joe is really a godless socialist.
I'm not a Biden fan. But my thing with Trump is so many Christians blindly following him, calling him "God's man" or a "man of God" when the man publicly rejected Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.
I don't see a lot of Christians tooting Biden's horn or singing his praises. So I'm not really concerned about that. I have, on the other hand, seen Christians lifting up an ungodly man (Trump) as some sort of savior. This is idolatry.
Anyway, this is going off topic...
teamventure
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- Sep 6, 2011
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I see your point that it has gone as far as idolatry for Trump.
But support for Trump and support for Biden is something entirely different.
Biden is part of the nwo and Trump was against the globalists. They are each playing on the opposite team.
That is a facade. Trump is not on the opposite team. He's Jesuit trained/educated. He's friends with the Clintons as well as Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. The man is a sexual predator and trafficker (behind the front of his casinos and other means), a pervert who utters sexual comments about his own daughters, has taken liberties with young women who were contestants in his beauty pageants, and has sexually tortured young women to the point of them passing out from pain and he thought it was funny. (I have heard that from eye witnesses.) I personally know a family who were (attempted) bribed and when they refused his bribes, Trump's mafia came after them and the other families who refused his bribes.
The man is cult as cult can be. Only his FRONT is different... the face he is assigned to present to the public. That is how the cult-run corrupt government works .... so as to manipulate us into parties and sects divided against each other. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they're buddying it up, and having a good old time.
teamventure
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Stopped reading at "Trump is a Jesuit."
That is a conspiracy theory and a facade indeed.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
It matters not whether an individual was a Jehovah's Witness, a Seventh Day Adventist, a Baptist, a Catholic or what have you. Using the Bible to interpret it self is still the correct method of study.
However you are mistaken I am not a Jehovah's Witness, I am a Bible Student. Although we share many common beliefs even as we share many beliefs held by, Adventist, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans and etc. we are not the same. I believe I have already had this discussion once or twice on this forum, but alas it never sinks in.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
The New World translation is not a Bible, it is a Jehovah Witness fabrication.
Using the Bible is not the only reality in interpreting the Bible. You must also study the language, how language was used in ancient times and not rely on your churches doctrine to determine meanings.
Using the Bible is not the only reality in interpreting the Bible. You must also study the language, how language was used in ancient times and not rely on your churches doctrine to determine meanings.
when will the two witnesses appear and WHO ARE THEY
OP ^
When - during the "trumpets" sounding, during End of days Tribulation.
WHO -
Jesus' Two Witnesses?
Michael
Gabriel
Rev.11
[2] ...the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
[4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Zech 4:
[11] Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
Personally I lean toward the Belief that:
The Word of God (who IS Spirit) and appeared ON Earth, in the LIKENESS as a man...
(Both Before and After Gods Word APPEARED (in the LIKENESS as a man ) being called Jesus)...
Has TWO Witnesses that ARE (spirits), holy angelic spirits, (that ALSO have appeared ON Earth, in the LIKENESS as men.... )
AND STAND BY the LORD of the whole earth...(IN HEAVEN and ON EARTH)...
Where the Lord IS, so also IS His TWO Witnesses.
* Michael - Archangel - Guardian of the Nation of Israel - standing with the Lord for LAW and RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Dan 12:6
* Gabriel - Angel - With Gods Holy Word in his mouth - standing with the Lord for GRACE and MERCY.
Luke 1:19
The Lord, was IN Heaven, came to Earth, returned to Heaven.
* WHO could Be IN Heaven, come to Earth, (appear as a man), Be in Heaven...."always standing with the Lord, Testifying as Witnesses OF the Lord" ...
* I conclude only a "holy angelic spirit has Access to both Heaven and Earth" and could always be in the presence OF the Lord, as His First Hand Witnesses, of what the Lord says and does."
Glory to God,
Taken
OP ^
When - during the "trumpets" sounding, during End of days Tribulation.
WHO -
Jesus' Two Witnesses?
Michael
Gabriel
Rev.11
[2] ...the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
[4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Zech 4:
[11] Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
Personally I lean toward the Belief that:
The Word of God (who IS Spirit) and appeared ON Earth, in the LIKENESS as a man...
(Both Before and After Gods Word APPEARED (in the LIKENESS as a man ) being called Jesus)...
Has TWO Witnesses that ARE (spirits), holy angelic spirits, (that ALSO have appeared ON Earth, in the LIKENESS as men.... )
AND STAND BY the LORD of the whole earth...(IN HEAVEN and ON EARTH)...
Where the Lord IS, so also IS His TWO Witnesses.
* Michael - Archangel - Guardian of the Nation of Israel - standing with the Lord for LAW and RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Dan 12:6
* Gabriel - Angel - With Gods Holy Word in his mouth - standing with the Lord for GRACE and MERCY.
Luke 1:19
The Lord, was IN Heaven, came to Earth, returned to Heaven.
* WHO could Be IN Heaven, come to Earth, (appear as a man), Be in Heaven...."always standing with the Lord, Testifying as Witnesses OF the Lord" ...
* I conclude only a "holy angelic spirit has Access to both Heaven and Earth" and could always be in the presence OF the Lord, as His First Hand Witnesses, of what the Lord says and does."
Glory to God,
Taken
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
First of all I don't use the New World Translation (although I have one), I use the NKJV primarily along with several other translations. Secondly one does not have to be a scholar in Hebrew and Greek to understand such, there are plenty of reliable resources provided by the Lord to aid the student of his Word in these matters, the Lord knew perfectly well that not all his children would be learned in such things, for he himself states:
"For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called." (1 Cor 1:26)
Are you a Jehovah's Witness? No I didn't think so.
Are you a Bible Student? No I didn't think so.
So what makes you qualified to judge what they believe or don't believe?
Oh yea, you read some where on the internet that such and such... and or you got your information from a disguntal X-JW (there are a lot of those out there), who probably was only in the organization a few months but now is a reliable expert on the teachings of the JW's.
So was he a Bible Student too? Where did he get his information on this group?
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They are clearly men, and men are human. Angels can’t die, so that’s not a possibility. The two witnesses are killed.
I’ve never seen anyone claim Elijah isn’t one of the two, particularly since the two call down fire from heaven, and can stop the rain, and both are things Elijah is noted for.
Hi Curtis, Welcome to the forum.
Yep, Long reply, but detailed, you can read or skip, your option.
Absolutely correct, spirits can not die.
* God "IS" a Spirit, without a Beginning,
and God "Has" 7 Spirits.
...Gods Spirit IS Absolute Pure LIGHT.
...Gods Spirit IS Absolute Supreme POWER.
...Gods Spirit IS His Glory.
...Gods Spirit IS UNSEEN by human man.
(Should a human SEE Gods Spirit, that human would be consumed to ash.
...The Spirits God "HAS" Can come forth OUT of Him, While Remaining "IN" Him.
(Sort of like, your word can come forth out of you, while your word continues to remain IN you.)
And...
* Why Gods Power is called a consuming fire.
* Why men bow their face to the ground to speak (pray) to God.
* Why men close their eyes when they pray to God.
* God "created" holy spirits, to Serve Him, in many capacities. Messengers, Warriors, Teachers, Examples.
* Created holy spirits, Were given great power, talents, authority positions, great knowledge and freewill, that they could REMAIN faithful, or Fall from Faithfulness.
* Created spirits...have a similitude with mankind...in that, While provided Great Knowledge...it is by and through their absolute allegiance to God, they are gifted with GODS UNDERSTANDING of His Provided Knowledge.
* Angelic spirits that have freely chosen to stand Against God...ARE full of Gods great Knowledge, but fall short of being Gifted with Gods Understanding Of His Knowledge.
Mankind IS a created Body, (of dust) of a created Earth. The Breath of God, MAKES a mans Body, Become its own individual Living Body, via a SOUL. All SOULS belong to God, and Are the Source which bring a BODY of man into a Living state.
The Life of a Body IS BLOOD.
The thoughts of a mans BODY IS;
Via...His Natural Carnal mind.
Via...His Natural spirit, natural mans (natural TRUTH ) in his Heart.
Both...the Natural Mind & Natural spirit of man are MORTAL, meaning Subject to DEATH.
The mystery of God...Is God CAN "MAKE" changes "IN" a man.
"MAKE" what God Created...Changed.
And Why God is Called:
The Creator AND Maker.
* God created mans Body, then MADE the body Alive...via His Breath...a Living Soul.
* God created a mans Natural spirit, in his heart and can MAKE that spirit changed, ie (Born Again).
* a mans NATURAL spirit in his heart, IS the mans Absolute Truth.
* a mans Natural spirit, becomes "changed" when the man is Converted, born again from Gods seed, which is the man Receiving, Gods Seed, births the mans new spirit, WITH Gods TRUTH. (That is man receiving Gods "Spirit of Truth"...)
* a mans Living Soul, that is "saved", is a soul that is " restored". (Pss 23:1) It "WAS" very good, became corrupt (via sin, ie standing Against God), forgiven, restored, (again good), and thereafter forever, can never stand against God again. Ie Saved soul.
* A man having Received, a Restored soul...is a soul, that will continue Forever living, with Gods Breath in it.
* A man having Received, Gods Seed, births a mans spirit, that it shall Remain Alive Forever.
* A mans Body shall and MUST DIE. (God requires it to Die)...since it can NOT be raised, FOREVER Alive, without first Dying.
Thus...
* God IS Spirit and Has a Spirit.
God Can APPEAR (to be SEEN) IN A BODY likeness AS A MAN, an animal, a bush, as His power dictates.
* created angelic and fallen demonic spirits, also have the power to APPEAR as a man, animal type creatures.
* Human men, can only SEE, God, SEE heavenly spirit, SEE demonic spirits....WHEN those Spirits....APPEAR IN A FORM, ie BODY...
Human Eyes ARE ABLE TO SEE, without being destroyed to Look at it.
* ALL Spirits...God, Angels, mans born again spirit....ARE LIGHT, and IS the POWER of the "thing"; God, Angel, Man....that Light IS IN.
Human MEN, always APPEAR AS THEY ARE, A BODY.
SPIRITS (GOD, ANGELS, DEMONS)....APPEAR TO HUMANS, FOR HUMANS TO SEE.
HUMANS can hear...but fall short on Believing WHAT they hear, UNLESS they can also process in their MIND...what they ARE HEARING, can be verified as a sounds source, by what they CAN SEE.
A human, is more naturally accepting to believe...what they can HEAR and SEE.
VIdeos, movies, are modernly preferred over books and radios.
** AND THAT ^ IS one of the biggest condunrums of Mankind...between men who believe IN God and men who DO NOT believe in God....
Some man CAN NOT believe without SEEING.
And men WHO DO belive in God without SEEING...are blessed with FAITH and inner Peace, Comfort and Results From God, FOR committing to Believe, without SEEING.
SO... Angels HAVE great Power (given them By God), to APPEAR, in the LIKENESS "as a man", expressly FOR MEN to "hear AND SEE", them. (You at any time, may encounter, "see", A MAN... that may BE, a holy angel...OR a demonic angel.
In Ancient days...Biblical History, Angels APPEARED to men... in the LIKENESS (bodily look) AS a man...and MEN "called" those "angels"....BOTH by what a man SAW...
Calling them...Angels / Spirit / (by what man KNEW) and Calling them Angels /Spirits (by what man SAW...ie a man form).
* The Word of God...IS a Spirit of GOD. His Spirit that comes forth out of Him, YET, remains IN HIM.
* Gods Word from the Beginning of Creation, has EXPRESSLY came forth out from God...
AND SPOKE...What things, were GODS WILL to come into Existance.
* As well Gods SPIRIT of POWER, came forth out from God, that What He Spoke, Came into Existance.
When Scripture reveals...God speaking, OF Himself ....as "US" and "OUR" in Genesis....
He is Expressly revealing...
His WILL (idea), His Word, His Power....ALL work together....to Create and Make...what did not exist, to BECOME in existence.
( and THAT is the basis of the TRI- 3...UNITY- of ONE God....ie Trinity...called by different Names & Titles, but Always ONE Supreme God).
Gods Word came forth out from Gods mouth, many times in the OT...was called An Angel of the Lord, and Appeared AS A MAN, and also called a man.
IN the NT, Gods Word came forth out from Gods mouth, and was Expressly called;
JESUS, Son of Man, Son of God, High Priest, Savior, Christ, Wisdom, Truth, Life, Way, Savior, etc.
Each NAME / TITLE, are clues, Knowledge...Of WHAT exactly a man Can KNOW, the precise ability of WHAT Gods Word, CAN DO.
The BODY...Jesus APPEAR IN...was Prepared BY GOD, (IN the LIKENESS AS A man), expressly FOR Earthly men TO SEE, and expressly to BE AN EXAMPLE for earthly men TO HEAR...AND SEE...
TO HEAR, a mans body shall Die, and God WILL raise up that body and change it to an everylasting living body....IS ONE THING.
TO SEE, a mans body hung, blood spilled to the ground, completely Dead....and then Be risen UP....ALIVE, WIHTOUT BLOOD, (which IS a natural mans LIFE)...IS ASTOUNDING!
Imagine being present...to First hand Witness, such a phenomenal Event...the Wonderment of men, the News, the Discussions, the overwhelming belief and men falling face down to the ground, praising and worshiping God....and today...how THAT phenomenal EVENT is minimized to a time for shopping, decorating, playing, having fun, getting drunk, etc. etc.
Bottom LINE...Spirits have power to APPEAR in Multiple fashions that a man CAN SEE.
And Some men, WHO Can SEE, WHO Can believe the Testimony of those who SAW first hand, and CAN "KNOW" ***AND*** "Understand", WHAT they SEE, "IS NOT" WHAT they SEE.
Gen 1
[1] In the beginning God created...
[2] ... the Spirit of God...
[3] ... God said
THE US, THE OUR;
Gods, WILL, SPIRIT, WORD
Gen 1
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Gen 1:
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good...
Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 9:
[4] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof ....
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; ...I require the life of man.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Luke 1:
[35] ....that holy thing...
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Phil 2:
[8] ...as a man.
John 1:
[1] ... beginning was the Word...Word was with God...the Word was God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Heb 1:
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
John 16:
[27] ...I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world...
Jesus Sacrificed unto DEATH, the body God Prepared Him...(He did NOT sacrifice His Spirit or His Soul) ...Heb 10:5
God IS Desiring mankind to freely Choose to Sacrifice their "BODY", willingly (crucified with Chirst Jesus)....that their soul and spirit may be converted (by Gods POWER to MAKE the (very good created and made thing, that became corrupt...AGAIN MADE good)....and / KEPT in FOREVER LIFE, and their body raised IN Glory of Forever Life...(By the supreme POWER of God...) and Forever BE WITH God.
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Personally, I have heard and seen, out of Trumps mouth, Trumps belief IN God and IN Jesus and belief IN recognizing Failures IN American Political leadership.
I know not one person WHO is "equaling" Trump with the Lord God, or "praising" Trump as the "Lord God", but rather acknowledging and accepting Trumps relationship with the Lord God and accepting Trumps Efforts to improve the American Leadership that is driving Americans into a downward spiral of poverty and Liberty rape.
Christians DO, absolutely lend an ear to other Christians...regarding spiritual things, AND everyday matters.
Christians DO, lend their ears, to Religious Teachers, for Religious guidance...
and DO lend their ears to Political speakers, Government speakers, Employer speakers, Neighbor speakers, Academic speakers, Sports Coach speakers, ETC. Men many agree or disagree with them. Men may admire them, may support their efforts financially or by agreement....WHICH IS NOT making them EQUAL with worshiping them in equality to their Lord God.
I have seen nor heard NO ONE, not Trump, not anyone else, CLAIM, they seek Trump FOR their Spiritual Teaching, their Spiritual Salvation, their Spiritual Worshiping.
The people are always interested in the religious standing of an individual who may be seated in the People's Government Offices.
The media, with the platform and microphone, absolutely does present such inquisitions to potiental candidates desiring to be seated in a political position.
And WITHOUT DOUBT ... the BIG TECH "news" outlets, are Companies with an AGENDA, (to MAKE MONEY), and WILL present their "NEWS", that WILL ...
"Increase their Dollars"... and "Foster their Agenda"... Be it all True, partically True, or a Lie.
The WORLD...wanted TRUMP to answers questions about His Beliefs IN the Lord God.
Nothing new.
The WORLD...wanted TRUMP to RECITE a Biblical QUOTE, word for word Response.
He didn't.
I have ZERO issue with HOW Trump responds to Religious questions, IN HIS own words.
I am not DEAF. I have Heard Trumps earnest public Prayer and appeal TO GOD, FOR GODS Blessings upon this Land and her People.
* And Personally, I am in complete agreement with Trumps Prayer to God FOR Gods blessings upon this Land and her People.
* And Personally, I am in agreement with Trumps Efforts he elected to "politically" focus on, and the Efforts he made realized, were for the betterment OF this Land and her People.
As far as Biden, Like Trump...Biden "identified" his "denomination" of religious beliefs.
As far as the "news" medias...Biden's announcement of his "denomination" was sufficient. A further "inquisition" into Biden's beliefs specific about God, about Jesus Christ...
Was not a task, the "news" media elected to splash as a months long 24-7 "roundtable" of commentators "opinions".
Biden said he was of the denomination... Catholic....good enough...
All the world knows Catholics believe in God.
Trump said he was of the denomination...
Presbyterian ...not good enough...
The world is ignorant, and wondering IF Presbyterians believe in God...
The only ones, I have heard or seen, claiming men are worshipping Trump/ making Trump "their Savior"....are men who are making Claims for others, who DID NOT themselves make such claims
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Say what? A Jesuit? Jesuits are Catholics.
What is the source of that information?
Not sure of your point.
I have been friendly and associated with lots of people, you probably have as well....
Eaten supper with, Played games/sports with, worked with, been at parties with (etc.) people whom I absolutely am in opposition with, disagree with, their religious, political, life-style choices.
(Being at the same party, speaking to, playing sports...does not mean one condones or agrees or participates in or with an others choices, politically, or lifestyle.)
Trump thoroughly enjoys being surrounded by Beautiful things and people... not a crime.
No he has not "trafficked" people,
And not a crime for beautiful women to use their beauty to get close to wealthy men, in hopes of enjoying some of the man's wealth.
And...curious....of who you personally know...
What was the bribe offer....and What exactly happened? Accepted the bribe, and received What? Rejected the bribe, and received What?
I hardly give Trump exclusive credit, for Political opponents publically standing against eachother Publically on Government Issues...
And being Friendly outside of a Public Government platform....fishing together, eating together, golfing together, attending a concert together....etc.
Personal enjoyment of an others company...
Isn't always about Political agreement, Religious agreement, or Lifestyle agreement.
As far as Trump and Epstein, they quite often were in the same places, surrounded by the same crowds of people, wealthy, fine dining, beautiful women, handsome men....
Accusations and Gossip flowed freely, within and by onlookers. (Not unlike the same, that occurs within circles of get togethers of the not so wealthy and famous.).
Epsteins and Trumps friendly relationship became strained OVER a Business deal of real-estate, both had an interest in obtaining.
Thereafter...when GOSSIP, became public notice that:
Epstein was "Officially /Lawfully" charged with "trafficking" and "drug inducing" minor females....Trump cut his ties with Epstein.
Personally, I am friendly, with lots of people I do not agree with, (politically, religiously or their choice of lifestyle)....but I do not cut my ties with them, because of an others Gossip.
As far as maintaining a relationship WITH a person, Lawfully Convicted of a crime. I have done that as well...and that relationship "changes", to be strictly about their willingness to Hear the Word of God, and my effort to visit them (or write), in their imprisonment.
I have no knowledge of Trump, promoting himself as a Religious Teacher, or making efforts to carry on any relationship with Epstein, After him being Legally Accused or Imprisoned.
Personally, I don't see How what one person's (whom I do not know), accusations about another person (whom I do not know)... should tempt me to conclude a Negative Opinion, about someone I do not know.
God Bless,
Taken
Refused several bribes (to vote his casinos into their town) and their lives were threatened, then a driveby on their house as they were sitting down for supper. Nice, eh?
Honestly, it's not up to me to convince you or anyone. I just speak what I know. And I do personally know at least 5 of his victims.
Human men are created creatures out of the Earth.
Angelic spirits are created creatures with the Power to "appear" BE SEEN by Human men, in the LIKENESS "as a Human man", and are called men; "but ARE NOT "out of the earth", are not Human men".
Human men Do not Become Spirits, and Spirits Do not Become Human men.
Spirits are called, "men", when they "APPEAR" and LOOK LIKE A man.
When you SEE a little boy in a "fashion that LOOKS LIKE a lion", and the boy growls like a lion, and you call him a lion....surely you still KNOW and UNDERSTAND....he is human boy, and NOT a lion.
Bribes / enticement / temptations / encouragement to VOTE for a casino Trump wanted in their city...Okay...nothing new.
Bribed with what? Money? Free tokens to Gamble? Just curious, but also nothing new in business deals to offer something for support, or free gifts for having given support...
And the driveby? What? Yelled? Threw garbage, stones, shot bullets??
No not nice, and not an unusual event. Have had dealt with those type of things myself.
Suspicion, of who, and
It appears, they certainly are accusing Trump, of sending someone to harass them...
And the proof? Or suspicion?
Curious about these people... Clout with a platform to influence a substantial number of votes?
It looks like it is exactly what I knew already, which the Lord revealed to me in 2017... about those who will fall under his spell and follow him no matter what evil he does.
Bribes (money, TVs, gifts sent without their invite) ... refusal of their votes got them harassed, threatened (to kill their children as they walked home from school), a driveby SHOOTING .... and this was not random, because it was happening to others who also refused Trump's bribes!!
I am shocked at how many people worship this evil man....
Bribes (money, TVs, gifts sent without their invite) ... refusal of their votes got them harassed, threatened (to kill their children as they walked home from school), a driveby SHOOTING .... and this was not random, because it was happening to others who also refused Trump's bribes!!
I am shocked at how many people worship this evil man....
