where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

[Taken]

No. That’s an unbiblical understanding of the mind and logic, often used to avoid the conclusions of sound logic. God created us in his image and that includes logic and reasoning. Jesus, who is the Logos who became flesh, tells us to love God with, among other things, all our mind.

The Bible uses logic from beginning to end. It is one of the primary ways God uses to communicate truth to us and how he expects us to interpret and understand what he has communicated to is.

There are only a fleshly, worldly use of logic and a Godly, biblical use of it, just as there is sound reasoning and poor reasoning. What we can never say is that ‘Logic is the Conclusion of the “Carnal Mind”.’ If that were true, then all of us are thoroughly carnal, and so is God.

Disagree.

Logic and Reasoning are TWO DIFFERENT Things.

Mindful Logical Understanding is Concluded by; a principled set of Rules.

Mindful Reasoning Understanding is Concluded by; an Experience.

Either can Determine a mans “understanding”.

Mans Mindful Logic Is NOT Biblical.
Mans Mindful Reasoning IS Biblical.

Knowledge of Gods Word; “comes exclusively From God”.

Understanding of Gods Word / Gods Knowledge; “comes exclusively From God”.

Mans Logic…”comes from mens Minds”.
Mans Reasoning…”comes from mens Experience of having received Understanding FROM God”.

Identified, Named Men have become “historically Famous, broadly, collectively Called: Philosophers, and their Theories, written, Published, Taught, to To the young impressionable minds, in Educational institutions For Centuries”…
“That which each individual student…has For Centuries…Debated such Theories as Fact or Fiction”.

Logic, (Guessing) is NOT the method taught in Scripture To USE for Arriving at the Understanding of Spiritual Things.

Reasoning, (Experience) IS the method taught in Scripture To USE for Arriving at the Understanding of Spiritual Things.

Logic gives you guesswork and theories.

Reasoning gives you promises, hope, blessings, gifts and experiences of Having those things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Pierac]

Everyone.... Take a deep breath! Stop dividing the Body of Christ. Scripture never speaks of 2 camps/bodies, only one body. Claiming someone must believe what Scripture doesn't present divides the Body. The Trinity is absent from Scripture. That is a Biblical fact! So who cares... Scripture clearly states, without adding to Scripture, that Jesus saves... everyone who posts here would agree on that fact!

So... not a Trinity... but Jesus. I see no Trinity on the cross! I see no Trinity raised from the dead... so STOP acting like it's actually important!

Biblical salvation in scripture requires what... I think this makes my point! Shut down the division!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Everyone.... Take a deep breath! Stop dividing the Body of Christ. Scripture never speaks of 2 camps/bodies, only one body. Claiming someone must believe what Scripture doesn't present divides the Body. The Trinity is absent from Scripture. That is a Biblical fact! So who cares... Scripture clearly states, without adding to Scripture, that Jesus saves... everyone who posts here would agree on that fact!

So... not a Trinity... but Jesus. I see no Trinity on the cross! I see no Trinity raised from the dead... so STOP acting like it's actually important!

Biblical salvation in scripture requires what... I think this makes my point! Shut down the division!

....and here you are refuting the pillar of Christianity.
.....the deity of Jesus AUTOMATICALLY points to a Tribune God.

Are you a Christian?
A Christian denies Jesus?

Not important?
Read foxes book of martyrs.
They died for what you say is not important.

In fact your position is that they all died needlessly.

Unity with the world would end martyrdom?

Contention over doctrinal pillars is how every apostle died.( save john)
Had not Paul defended doctrine we would NOT HAVE most of his letters.
Paul was stoned over doctrinal disputes.

 

[The Learner]

taken, where is my cake and ice cream?

 

[Justified]

Everyone.... Take a deep breath! Stop dividing the Body of Christ. Scripture never speaks of 2 camps/bodies, only one body. Claiming someone must believe what Scripture doesn't present divides the Body. The Trinity is absent from Scripture. That is a Biblical fact! So who cares... Scripture clearly states, without adding to Scripture, that Jesus saves... everyone who posts here would agree on that fact!

So... not a Trinity... but Jesus. I see no Trinity on the cross! I see no Trinity raised from the dead... so STOP acting like it's actually important!

Biblical salvation in scripture requires what... I think this makes my point! Shut down the division!

Either God is triune or he is not and only one can be the God of the Bible. If the Trinity is true (and it is), then those who don't believe in the Trinity, or at least argue against it, don't believe in the God of the Bible. So, it is of central importance.

Similarly, only one Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible and he is either truly God and truly man or he is not; he is either part of a Trinity or he is not. Since who he is is central to salvation, we simply cannot make up a Jesus who is not of the Bible and expect to have salvation. Once again, who he is is of central importance.

 

[Justified]

Disagree.

Logic and Reasoning are TWO DIFFERENT Things.

Mindful Logical Understanding is Concluded by; a principled set of Rules.

Mindful Reasoning Understanding is Concluded by; an Experience.

Either can Determine a mans “understanding”.

Mans Mindful Logic Is NOT Biblical.
Mans Mindful Reasoning IS Biblical.

Knowledge of Gods Word; “comes exclusively From God”.

Understanding of Gods Word / Gods Knowledge; “comes exclusively From God”.

Mans Logic…”comes from mens Minds”.
Mans Reasoning…”comes from mens Experience of having received Understanding FROM God”.

Identified, Named Men have become “historically Famous, broadly, collectively Called: Philosophers, and their Theories, written, Published, Taught, to To the young impressionable minds, in Educational institutions For Centuries”…
“That which each individual student…has For Centuries…Debated such Theories as Fact or Fiction”.

Logic, (Guessing) is NOT the method taught in Scripture To USE for Arriving at the Understanding of Spiritual Things.

Reasoning, (Experience) IS the method taught in Scripture To USE for Arriving at the Understanding of Spiritual Things.

Logic gives you guesswork and theories.

Reasoning gives you promises, hope, blessings, gifts and experiences of Having those things.

Glory to God,
Taken

So, since you're using logic, I can basically just say you're guessing and ignore what you have said, correct?

Again, logic (which is not guessing) is used throughout the Bible to come to an understanding of spiritual things and is one of the primary ways God uses to communicate truth to us and how he expects us to interpret and understand what he has communicated to us. There are only a fleshly, worldly use of logic and a Godly, biblical use of it, just as there are sound reasoning and poor reasoning.

 

[JimKnox]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?

I never got a straigth answer to this question. The apostles were discipled and taught by Jesus himself. Where in their letters do they literally write that Jesus is the Father? You will get run arounds like Jesus is god therefore he is the Father. That is not a text in their letters where they write. Jesus is the Father.

Where in the letters did they write literally that the Holy Spirit is the Father?

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "Jesus is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: "holy ghost is the Father"

www.biblegateway.com

Not in ether.,

By asking in this manner are you suggesting that Scripture that is NOT in the letters yet declares Christ IS God in the flesh have no weight nor authority nor veracity?

 

[Taken]

So, since you're using logic,

Uh…
No clue what you are reading, since I disagreed with your use of Logic for understanding Scripture….

My position is….Understanding Scripture comes From God…Not a mans mindful Logic!

I can basically just say you're guessing and ignore what you have said, correct?

You can do whatever you want.

Again, logic (which is not guessing) is used throughout the Bible to come to an understanding of spiritual things

Disagree.

Prov 3:
[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

1Chr 22:
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the LORD thy God.

Job 32:
[8] But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Luke 24:
[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

2Tim 2:
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[PinSeeker]

The Trinity is absent from Scripture. That is a Biblical fact!

Scripture clearly states, without adding to Scripture, that Jesus saves... everyone who posts here would agree on that fact!

Hmmm... well, that Jesus is the... "vehicle"... through Whom we are saved, that through Him and through Him only do we have access to the Father, that no one can come to the Father but through Him. Jesus says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me draws Him. And I will raise him up on the last day" (John 6:37), and "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). The Father provides this Way, just as He provided the ram to be sacrificed by Abraham in place of Isaac in Genesis 22.

So... not a Trinity... but Jesus. I see no Trinity on the cross! I see no Trinity raised from the dead... so STOP acting like it's actually important!

Biblical salvation in scripture requires what... I think this makes my point!

Scripture is crystal clear throughout on these things, that:

• God is one
• There are three distinct persons of this one God
• The three distinct persons of this one God are one in each other
• They were all three present at creation (Genesis 1:1-2, 26-27, John 1:1-3), and referred to each other simultaneously as a singularity and a plurality ('we' and 'us' and 'our' while being referred to by Moses, but really by God Himself, as 'He'... Genesis 1:26-27). And to this point, in like fashion, Jesus prays to the Father that, though we are all obviously distinct from one another, we would be one in each other as He and the Father are one. One day we truly will be, but we will not ever be... one person... of course, but an innumerable multitude of people, distinct from each other but still one in each other.

So yes, most of us agree that the Father and the Son are not the same person ~ Jesus speaks of His Father many times throughout all four gospels ~ but Jesus does in fact say that He and the Father are one (John 10:30, 14:10), and also that the Father dwells in Him (also John 14:10). Therefore, yes, the one true God is at least two persons... How, Pierac, do you deal with the following facts?

• That the Father sends both ~ in succession ~ first the Son (John 5:37, 6:29, 7:16, many others) and then the Holy Spirit (another helper, according to Jesus in John 14, and Jesus there speaks of the Holy Spirit in the third person, so obviously another distinct... entity...)
• Jesus also sends the Spirit, according to His words in John 15:26...

The one sending has to be distinct from whatever or whoever it is that he or she sends, which necessarily means that thing of that person departs from the sender's immediate presence, and this is impossible if the two are literally and woodenly the same person/thing.

Goodness gracious. <chuckles>

Shut down the division!

Asks the one... well, maybe one of the ones... causing it... <smile>

I agree with you on at least this, that deep breaths are good to take, at least here and there... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Taken]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?​

Moses First spoke of God being the Father.

Deut.32:
[6] Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

According to the Gospel of John…Jesus Declared He and His Father are one.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

 

[PinSeeker]

where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?​

According to the Gospel of John…Jesus Declared He and His Father are one.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

• Hmmm... well, in the same breath as having just said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand."
• In John 15, Jesus tells Philip He is in the Father and the Father is in Him.
• And in John 17, Jesus prays to the Father that we may all be one, just as the Father is in Him and He in the Father... and that we may be in Them (the Father and the Son).

So:

1. Jesus is not literally the Father, nor is the Father literally Jesus. Jesus was sent by the Father (John 14), and the Father and Jesus subsequently sent the Holy Spirit (John 14 and John 15).
2. This sounds silly to even have to say, but... we are not literally the Father or the Son, and we are not all literally one person. <chuckles>

What we're talking about here is, though we are many, being one in the sense of perfect unity, one, then ~ perfectly united ~ in substance and in spirit. For the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that has always been the case and always will be, from eternity past to eternity future. For all of us, one great day, that will be the case... for eternity.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Taken]

• So:

1. Jesus is not literally the Father, nor is the Father literally Jesus. Jesus was sent by the Father (John 14), and the Father and Jesus subsequently sent the Holy Spirit (John 14 and John 15).

Literally Yes…
God IS ONE God…
Creator………….called God
Maker …………..called God
God………………called Father
His Word…..…..called Jesus
His Truth……….called Jesus
His Life …………called Jesus
His Power………called Christ, called Almighty
His Wisdom……called Christ
His Obedient….called Lord, Faithful, Son
The Maker ……..called Jesus
The Father………called Son
The Son…………Everlasting Father

God purposed IN “Himself” to Do what men could NOT Accomplish.

Men could Learn and Teach other men….
But continually… by the Nature of man…
Very Hard for men to Believe….
That which they can NOT, See, Hear, Smell, Touch…
Thus Gods “Remedy”…
Appear to men, so they Can See, Hear, Smell, Touch….AND Believe.

The Father / Son, Gods Idea…
As God Said….
He in Heaven “WOULD BE Father to He WHOM God prepared a Body and Sent to Earth, and He sent to Earth WOULD be to God, A Son.

Literally, God is Eternal, He CAN NOT by His Own Design … “Reproduce” His OWN Kind of “entity”, “Offspring”, that has “No Beginning”.

Instead, He Prepared a Body, for HIS OWN Self, and Sent it to Earth.

Not a stretch… since God IS…OmniPresent (Everywhere).

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hathpurposed in himself:

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, buta body hast thou prepared me:

Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Revealing…

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1. This sounds silly to even have to say, but... we are not literally the Father or the Son, and we are not all literally one person. <chuckles>

Grace and peace to all.

Yes… In the natural Order sons begin as sons and the same can then be the father.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[PinSeeker]

Literally Yes…
God IS ONE God…
Creator………….called God
Maker …………..called God
God………………called Father
His Word…..…..called Jesus...

Agree to here, at least... <smile> ...and finishing that last thing: His Word.... called Jesus, Who is the (only) Son of the Father... <smile>

His Truth……….called Jesus
His Life …………called Jesus
His Power………called Christ, called Almighty
His Wisdom……called Christ...

Christ is the personification of all these things, yes. But His personhood is His and His alone.

His Obedient….called Lord, Faithful, Son

Um, let me clarify that: The Father's perfectly obedient and faithful Son... and as such He is our Lord and Savior.

The Maker ……..called Jesus

The Father is the Maker, the Creator, but all things were created through the Son, and and without him was not any thing made that was made, as John says in John 1:3.

The Father………called Son

The Son…………Everlasting Father

God purposed IN “Himself” to Do what men could NOT Accomplish.

Right, all three Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who, as I said, though distinct from each other are one in each other.

Men could Learn and Teach other men….
But continually… by the Nature of man…
Very Hard for men to Believe….
That which they can NOT, See, Hear, Smell, Touch…
Thus Gods “Remedy”…
Appear to men, so they Can See, Hear, Smell, Touch….AND Believe.

The Father / Son, Gods Idea…
As God Said….
He in Heaven “WOULD BE Father to He WHOM God prepared a Body and Sent to Earth, and He sent to Earth WOULD be to God, A Son.

Literally, God is Eternal, He CAN NOT by His Own Design … “Reproduce” His OWN Kind of “entity”, “Offspring”, that has “No Beginning”.

Ugh. <smile> Jesus is also eternal, as is the Holy Spirit. Together, the one true God.

Instead, He Prepared a Body, for HIS OWN Self, and Sent it to Earth.

One in substance, yes, but Jesus is distinct in His personhood. The one true God is triune.

Not a stretch… since God IS…OmniPresent (Everywhere).

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hathpurposed in himself:

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

This in no way says or insinuates that Jesus was created or made or was at any point not existing.

Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The term “begotten” in Scripture is primarily a translation of the Greek word monogenēs, which combines monos (“only, unique”) and genos (“kind, type, class”) to convey uniqueness rather than temporal origin (John 3:16) While in everyday English “begotten” might suggest a beginning in time, in biblical usage it refers to the eternal generation of the Son from the Father, not a moment when Jesus was created . This distinction is crucial for understanding the doctrine of the Trinity, affirming that Jesus is fully God and fully human, sharing the same divine essence as the Father while remaining a distinct person.​

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Revealing…

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Through. Not 'by,' but through... through Jesus. By the Father, Who spoke into existence the world, even the universe.

Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus has many names, yes. <smile> And all are very descriptive of His attributes, and He is the image of the invisible Father (Colossians 1:15)... and the firstborn over all creation, meaning preeminent over creation, just as David was the firstborn over Israel in the Old Testament, even though he was not literally born before all the Israelites... he was actually the last born, the youngest, of all his brothers... Anyway... we are made in the image of God, but He, Jesus, is the image of the invisible God.

Yes… I’m the natural Order sons begin as sons and the same can then be the father.

<chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Taken]

Jesus is fully God and fully human

:-(

Jesus IS Spirit.
Jesus neither came from dust nor returned to dust.

Humans are NOT Spirits.

Spirits have the Power to “Appear” AS a Human, but are Not Human.

Men have the power to “Appear” AS a Woman, but are Not A Woman.

John 4:
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Calling things which are NOT as though they ARE IS purposed FOR, Carnal Clarity…

AS for IS satisfies the Mind.

IS for IS satisfies the Spirit.

Phil 2:
[8] And being found (Seen through human eyes) in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[PinSeeker]

:-(

<chuckles>

Jesus IS Spirit.

The Father is spirit (John 4:24). And of course the Holy Spirit is spirit. Jesus is the same in substance as and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, but He is not spirit in the same way as they are. <sigh> ...so many misunderstandings of "spirit," which, like many other words in the Bible is often used in different contexts so has slightly different connotations from occurrence to occurrence...

Jesus neither came from dust nor returned to dust.

Jesus was born of a woman, just as you and I were. Jesus was and is both God and man. After His (very physical) resurrection (and ours will be like His, as Paul says in Romans 6:5), Jesus appeared many times to many people up until His ascension to heaven... which was very visible and very tangible... and we understand that He will return just as left/ascended. Much more could be said, but... Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). And we will be just like Him one day, in spirit and body. <smile>

Humans are NOT Spirits.

Agreed. <smile> But we are spiritual beings ~ right now, having been born again of the Spirit (the third Person of the triune God, Who is invisible... like the wind, as Jesus says in John 3:8). However... <chuckles> ...

For us, here again is the simultaneous now and not yet... we are of the Spirit, and we have this new spirit given to us by God (Ezekiel 11:19, 26) now... this is what God does for us in our being born again. But we still have the "old man" with us, so we are not completely spiritual in this way... but we are being made that way... being made more and more like Jesus, and will one day be fully conformed to Christ. And, in our resurrection... when we are resurrected to eternal life, at Christ's return ~ if we are not still alive on that day, in which case we will be changed (1 Corinthians 15:51-52) ...then we will be reunited with our physical bodies, which will be completely restored and redeemed, along with the rest of creation... made new, as God says in Revelation 21:5. And we will be just like Jesus.

Spirits have the Power to “Appear” AS a Human, but are Not Human.

Ugh. <smile> So Jesus was being deceptive, even lying to us, when He (supposedly) just "appeared" to be a man but really was not? (again, rhetorical; of course not...) Jesus, during His life here on earth two millennia ago, was in the form of (Greek 'morphe') God and in the form of (Greek 'morphe') man... so both those actual things; that's what that Greek word means... so both God and man. Among other things, this is how He can be Mediator between God and man and what qualifies Him to reconcile and redeem man to God, the only One Who can satisfy God's justice on our behalf, which is what He did on the cross, and thus the very Reason it is even possible for us to be with God in eternity.

Men have the power to “Appear” AS a Woman, but are Not A Woman.

Right, but now you're really talking about sin... and, though not meaning to, attributing that very thing to God Himself... which... yikes... <smile>

Calling things which are NOT as though they ARE IS purposed FOR, Carnal Clarity… AS for IS satisfies the Mind. IS for IS satisfies the Spirit.

<chuckles>

Phil 2:
[8] And being found (Seen through human eyes) in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Forget not the verses just previous to this one (6-7), cited above: "...though He was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men"... As it is used by Paul there in verse 8, 'being found' is not to be understood in the sense that He was ever really different in any tangible way than how He was "seen through human eyes," but rather "taking the form (again, 'morphe') of," which is what He did when He "became flesh and dwelt among us," as John puts it in John 1:14. And, yet again, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever" (Hebrews 13:8).

Glory to God,

Absolutely. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Taken]

The Father is spirit (John 4:24). And of course the Holy Spirit is spirit. Jesus is the same in substance as and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, but He is not spirit in the same way as they are.

God Is a Spirit and Has 7 Spirits.
Humans Are Not Spirits. Humans Have a spirit.

Jesus was born of a woman, just as you and I were.

Born is The Delivery, from the Womb.
Humans Are procreated from a seed.
Christ IS the Seed of God.
Jesus IS the body God prepared and SENT to Mary’s womb.

Jesus was and is both God and man.

Christ Jesus IS Spirit and was called a man, because He Appeared “as” a man.
Rom 4:
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Angels ARE Spirits, with the Ability to ALSO Appear “as” a man.

You may have seen an Angel face to face that was appearing AS a man, and you not have known it was an Angel.

.. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

Exactly… Jesus without Beginning, without Ending, “IS” Spirit…. Regardless if He Appeared “AS” a man.

Agreed. <smile> But we are spiritual beings ~ right now, having been born again of the Spirit (the third Person of the triune God, Who is invisible... like the wind, as Jesus says in John 3:8).

Disagree.
Accounted Spiritual…
Yet…
The saved “ARE” a manifested New Body, Spiritual Bodies, when they are raised up.

So Jesus was being deceptive, even lying to us, when He (supposedly) just "appeared" to be a man but really was not?

He was never called a HUMAN as you said.
He was called a man, because He looked AS a man looks.

 

[PinSeeker]

God Is a Spirit and Has 7 Spirits.
Humans Are Not Spirits. Humans Have a spirit.

Born is The Delivery, from the Womb.
Humans Are procreated from a seed.
Christ IS the Seed of God.
Jesus IS the body God prepared and SENT to Mary’s womb.


Christ Jesus IS Spirit and was called a man, because He Appeared “as” a man.
Rom 4:
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Angels ARE Spirits, with the Ability to ALSO Appear “as” a man.

You may have seen an Angel face to face that was appearing AS a man, and you not have known it was an Angel.

Exactly… Jesus without Beginning, without Ending, “IS” Spirit…. Regardless if He Appeared “AS” a man.

Disagree.
Accounted Spiritual…
Yet…
The saved “ARE” a manifested New Body, Spiritual Bodies, when they are raised up.


He was never called a HUMAN as you said.
He was called a man, because He looked AS a man looks.

<chuckles> <sigh>

• I didn't say humans are spirits (or ever will be), so no need for that clarification. I will say, though, that if we die before Jesus returns,, our spirits will be separated from our bodies... for a time; this is what we call the intermediate state... <smile> ...until Jesus returns and our bodies are resurrected and our spirit and body are reunited.
• I'm not sure of this, but you seem to be saying that Paul, in Romans 4:17, is talking about Jesus rather than Abraham. If so, that's quite incorrect. Or, maybe you think Abraham and Christ Jesus are one and the same person... Either way, ugh... <smile>
• Again, Christ was and is both God and, when He walked the earth, man; Paul is crystal clear that He was in the form of (so the very thing) both... so 100% God and 100% man (Philippians 2:6-7). And so is the writer of Hebrews... "Never called man"... Well, He called Himself the son of man several times, so... yes He was... <smile> He is the second/last Adam ('Adam' meaning 'a man'), so the better Adam, He succeeded where Adam failed...

"Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven" (1 Corinthians 15:45-49).​

• On top of that, it seems you regard Jesus even as Muslims do, as just an angel, and not God at all, since even angels were created by God. If I'm correct about that, that Jesus is neither God nor man, then that's... very, very troubling.
• In Galatians 6:1, Paul ~ and really God, as all Scripture is God-breathed ~ writes, to the Christians in Galatia, but all Christians by extension, "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness." We are accounted righteous... credited with the righteousness of Christ... but we obviously are spiritual, made that way, made to be spiritually alive, human though we are. We are a work in progress, not yet completely of the Holy Spirit. But God will ~ will, not "might" ~ bring that work to completion at the day of Christ. So again... <smile> ...now and not yet.

Grace and peace to you, Taken. That's... an appropriate moniker for you... <smile>

 

[Taken]

<chuckles> <sigh>

• I didn't say humans are spirits (or ever will be), so no need for that clarification. I will say, though, that if we die before

Never said you said that.

You said post 173 Jesus was human.

I said Jesus was never called a Human.
Post 177

 

[PinSeeker]

Never said you said that.

You did say, "Humans Are Not Spirits." So, yeah, no need for that clarification.

You said post 173 Jesus was human.

And He was... and as such, He had a spirit. But He was not merely human. <smile> As Paul said, He was both in the form of God and in the form of man (Philippians 2). So, a man, and thus human, but also God.

I said Jesus was never called a Human.
Post 177

The actual word 'human' was never used, no, in the Hebrew or the Greek, but that matters not... does nothing, in the light of all other Scripture to deny or negate His humanness. Hebrews 4:15 is clear that He experienced humanity in every way we do, so He was fully human... "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin" ...yet remained without sin and fully God. And again, John 1:14... "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." And Colossians 1:15-20...

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities⁠ ~ all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything He might be preeminent. For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross."

As I said, if this were not the case, He would not have been... qualified... to be Mediator between God and man, and... no one would be saved...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Taken]

You did say, "Humans Are Not Spirits." So, yeah, no need for that clarification.


And He was...

No.
Humans, Earthly men, come from dust of the Earth!!
Jesus came Forth out of Gods Mouth IN Heaven.

God Prepared Him a Body…

God Sent that Body To earth, So stiffed-necked stubborn Earthly men Could See Him, Hear Him, Touch Him…That they Might Believe “their Eyes, Ears, Touch”… THAT He was God Walking Among them, experiencing the same Trials and Tribulations of men Against Him….while Still Remaining Faithful and Righteous…
As An “in your face” Example.

Stop preaching Jesus was an Earthly Human Kind of Man…
He is NOT an Earthen Creation.

Glory to God,
Taken