WHICH CHURCH IS HEBREWS WRITTEN TO?

[historyb]

WHICH CHURCH IS HE BREWS WRITTEN TO?

The ones that like coffee

 

[Heart2Soul]

The ones that like coffee

now that's funny!

 

[Stan B]

I have wondered if Paul made it to Spain during those days...

Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company. - Romans 15:24

Somewhere in my distant past, I seem to recall hearing that Paul went to Spain, but I have nothing to provide support for such a hypothesis.

 

[justbyfaith]

A husband and wife were arguing over who should make the coffee.

The man said, "Submit to me, woman!"

But the woman retorted, "No; because the Bible says he brews."

 

[Davy]

Somewhere in my distant past, I seem to recall hearing that Paul went to Spain, but I have nothing to provide support for such a hypothesis.

Rom 15:24
24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
KJV

Rom 15:28
28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.
KJV

Same legend among the Brits that Paul visited ancient Britain also. See 2 Timothy 4:21; and this...

THE INCREDIBLE HISTORY OF GOD’S TRUE CHURCH – (5) (The End) | The Ensign Message

And thus the battle goes on between the ancient British Church and the Roman Church, which St. Agustine admitted in his writings about Britain, that when he went to preach The Gospel in the British Isles, that he found they already had Christian bishops, and they refused to recognize his claimed authority by a pope. It could be for some of this reason that the original Letter to King James and the Letter to The Reader in the 1st edition 1611 King James Bible showed the translators refused to recognize authority by a "bishop of bishops" (pope).

I found it interesting that the movie A Knight's Tale included a bar scene about a bet between French squires and the English squire Roland...

"French Squire 1:
An Englishman will not win this French tournament. English legs are unsteady on French soil.

French Squire 2:
And because French wine is too much for English bellies.

French Squire 3:
And most importantly, because the Pope himself is French.

Roland:
Well, the Pope may be French, but Jesus is English! You're on!"

(from French Squire 1: An Englishman will not win this French tournament. English legs are unsteady on French soil.French Squire 2: And because French wine is too much for English bellies.French Squire 3: And most importantly, because the Pope himself is French.Roland: Well, the Pope may be French, but Jesus is English! You're on!)

Evidently the writer, director, or whomever, was familiar with the historical claim between Rome and Britain of the early Christian Church in ancient Europe.

 

[Truther]

The book of Hebrews was written to the kingdom church, the believing remnant of Israel, undergoing persecution and scattered (Acts 8:1-4).

This book is not written directly to the church today, the body of Christ, although it is most profitable for our understanding. Misunderstanding doctrine in this book can be a snare to the believer and impact assurance of salvation.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God spoke in time past unto the fathers of Israel, and the us to whom the Son has spoken to, are the children of Israel.

The book of Hebrews is dealing with "these last days". The last days are spoken of as pertaining to the time in which the Davidic kingdom will be established on earth, in which, Christ will reign upon David's throne from Jerusalem along with the believing remnant of Israel (Isaiah 2:2-3 Luke 12:32).

1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Christ, by his own blood, entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for believing Israel (Hebrews 9:12). Christ died for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15).

1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Christ will establish his prophetic kingdom on earth (Psalm 45:6 Isaiah 9:6-7 Daniel 2:44).

Good thing Peter, a Jew, was living as a gentile.(Gal 2)
This book must not have applied to him either?

 

[Davy]

Good thing Peter, a Jew, was living as a gentile.(Gal 2)
This book must not have applied to him either?

Doug doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and will not repent, even after solid Scripture evidence has been shown his doctrine is in error. He is on a doctrine of men called Hyper-Dispensationalism, which was begun in the late 1800s by the British Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger. John Darby in 1830s Britain created his Dispensationalism which proposed in final that Christ's Church is raptured to Heaven prior to the great tribulation and rules from Heaven with Jesus after His return while the nation of Israel is restored on earth.

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, 'Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.'
KJV

Because of Darby's supposed split of Christ's Church apart from Israel on earth after Jesus' 2nd coming, the Hyper-Dispensationalist deems any and all Bible Scripture written about Israel as being for the Jews, and not for Christ's Church. Thusly, just because of the mention of the word 'Hebrew' in the title of the Book of Hebrews, that's enough for them to assign to the Jews only. Only Apostle Paul's Epistles do they claim is for Christ's Church. Thing is, Apostle Paul's expressions and writing style is all over the Book of Hebrews, and directly parallels Paul's Epistles, showing that he had a hand in writing Hebrews.

The other thing which deceived brethren like Doug aren't aware of, is how many of the seed of Israel make up Christ's Church today, and there isn't anything written in God's Word about that believing remnant of Israel being snatched to Heaven while the nation of Israel is restored on earth. Just the opposite is actually written in both The Old Testament and New Testament Books (Ezekiel 37:12-14).

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, 'Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call His name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:

33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

That throne of David is an earthly throne that Jesus will take at His 2nd coming. And wherever that throne of David is, that is where our Lord Jesus Christ will reign from. Jesus is not sitting on that throne just yet (Matthew 19:27-28).

 

[Truther]

Doug doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and will not repent, even after solid Scripture evidence has been shown his doctrine is in error. He is on a doctrine of men called Hyper-Dispensationalism, which was begun in the late 1800s by the British Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger. John Darby in 1830s Britain created his Dispensationalism which proposed in final that Christ's Church is raptured to Heaven prior to the great tribulation and rules from Heaven with Jesus after His return while the nation of Israel is restored on earth.

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, 'Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.'
KJV

Because of Darby's supposed split of Christ's Church apart from Israel on earth after Jesus' 2nd coming, the Hyper-Dispensationalist deems any and all Bible Scripture written about Israel as being for the Jews, and not for Christ's Church. Thusly, just because of the mention of the word 'Hebrew' in the title of the Book of Hebrews, that's enough for them to assign to the Jews only. Only Apostle Paul's Epistles do they claim is for Christ's Church. Thing is, Apostle Paul's expressions and writing style is all over the Book of Hebrews, and directly parallels Paul's Epistles, showing that he had a hand in writing Hebrews.

The other thing which deceived brethren like Doug aren't aware of, is how many of the seed of Israel make up Christ's Church today, and there isn't anything written in God's Word about that believing remnant of Israel being snatched to Heaven while the nation of Israel is restored on earth. Just the opposite is actually written in both The Old Testament and New Testament Books (Ezekiel 37:12-14).

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, 'Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call His name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:

33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

That throne of David is an earthly throne that Jesus will take at His 2nd coming. And wherever that throne of David is, that is where our Lord Jesus Christ will reign from. Jesus is not sitting on that throne just yet (Matthew 19:27-28).

Dispensationalism is fine to describe time periods of the Bible, but it must be modified. There are time periods but two basic elements to the Bible. Law and Grace. Both Law and Grace started in the Garden and have always existed simultaneously, side by side. .

 

[Stan B]

33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.

In this passage, Luke seems to be quoting Isaiah 9:7:

"There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore." Isaiah 9:7

But Luke omits the "increase of His government" part which I find most fascinating in light of Jesus' declaration that there will be no marriage or giving in marriage in Heaven, but He never says that the marriages of those who are already married will be dissolved, nor that pro-creation will end, not that marriage will be necessary for pro-creation in the Heavenly realm, but it has truly been a wonderful blessing here on earth.

 

[Davy]

In this passage, Luke seems to be quoting Isaiah 9:7:

"There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore." Isaiah 9:7

But Luke omits the "increase of His government" part which I find most fascinating in light of Jesus' declaration that there will be no marriage or giving in marriage in Heaven, but He never says that the marriages of those who are already married will be dissolved, nor that pro-creation will end, not that marriage will be necessary for pro-creation in the Heavenly realm, but it has truly been a wonderful blessing here on earth.

The erroneous idea of the resurrection involving a flesh body is a an old Jewish tradition. In 1 Cor.15 Apostle Paul said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Procreation is of the flesh order of this world, not the world to come.

 

[Davy]

Dispensationalism is fine to describe time periods of the Bible, but it must be modified. There are time periods but two basic elements to the Bible. Law and Grace. Both Law and Grace started in the Garden and have always existed simultaneously, side by side. .

In case you missed it, in my post I gave direct Bible evidence that the throne of David promised to Jesus will be on this earth, and Jesus will inherit it only in that "regeneration" of Matthew 19:28 which is also when His 12 Apostles will each sit upon a throne over the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom, which of course is about the restored kingdom of Israel, on earth, after His return.

So are Christ's 12 Apostles today sitting upon 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel? No. The OT prophets point that will occur when God gathers Israel in final, which again still has not yet happened today.

Now per Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2, Christ's Apostles, and the prophets, make up part of the foundation of Christ's Church, with Jesus as The Head Cornerstone. How then can the Apostles be separated from Christ's Church supposedly ruling from Heaven when they will be sitting upon 12 thrones over the restored 12 tribes of Israel on earth? They cannot be two places at the same time.

God's Word does not contradict itself. But men's doctrines do all the time.

 

[Truther]

In case you missed it, in my post I gave direct Bible evidence that the throne of David promised to Jesus will be on this earth, and Jesus will inherit it only in that "regeneration" of Matthew 19:28 which is also when His 12 Apostles will each sit upon a throne over the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom, which of course is about the restored kingdom of Israel, on earth, after His return.

So are Christ's 12 Apostles today sitting upon 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel? No. The OT prophets point that will occur when God gathers Israel in final, which again still has not yet happened today.

Now per Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2, Christ's Apostles, and the prophets, make up part of the foundation of Christ's Church, with Jesus as The Head Cornerstone. How then can the Apostles be separated from Christ's Church supposedly ruling from Heaven when they will be sitting upon 12 thrones over the restored 12 tribes of Israel on earth? They cannot be two places at the same time.

God's Word does not contradict itself. But men's doctrines do all the time.

No, I agree with you.
Jesus will return in the Millennial reign and will have the 12 assist him in reigning over the 12 tribes of Israel(all Israel).
He will fill them all with his Spirit and save every one of them per Jer 31.

I was saying dispensationalism needs some modification though.

This is a fact. We don't replace in any way God's promises to the fathers of Israel.

We are only included in a teeny portion of that future promise, found in Hebrew 10:15-17...that's it.

 

[reformed1689]

This book is not written directly to the church today, the body of Christ, although it is most profitable for our understanding. Misunderstanding doctrine in this book can be a snare to the believer and impact assurance of salvation.

For the record, no book was written directly to the church today.

 

[Truther]

For the record, no book was written directly to the church today.

Right, but the church is the church, so all letters are relevant to the church today.

 

[reformed1689]

Right, but the church is the church, so all letters are relevant to the church today.

That's not the same thing, but I agree with the overall premise.

 

[Davy]

The whole Bible was written to the Christian Church...

Heb 10:7
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do Thy will, O God.
KJV

Rom 15:4
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
KJV

1 Cor 10:11-12
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
KJV

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV

 

[Marymog]

The book of Hebrews was written to the kingdom church, the believing remnant of Israel, undergoing persecution and scattered (Acts 8:1-4).

Hi Doug,

From whom did you learn this? We have no definite information about where and when Hebrews was written, or to whom it was addressed.

 

[Marymog]

Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrews in Jerusalem, explaining to them how the New Covenant was a new and better Covenant than the Old, and the primary points of transition between the two.

We have no definite information about where and when Hebrews was written, or to whom it was addressed. Internal examination of the text does show that it is in many ways different from the rest of Paul’s writings.

 

[Marymog]

Combining the two previous posts... I agree!

Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrews explaining to them how the New Covenant was a new and better Covenant than the Old, and the primary points of transition between the two. The book was written to Hebrew Christians within the Church, the Body of Christ. Today it is applicable to all Christians, since it reveals the truth about the finished work of Christ.

Internal examination of the text shows that it is in many ways different from the rest of Paul’s writings. Early tradition attributed it to Paul but since it is not signed we will probably never know.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, corrected....
Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you. Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you. - Hebrews 13:23-24

I believe the Epistle was written indeed in Italy. I don't believe Nero was eager to hear Paul's case and Paul may had liberty for some time in Rome.

And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him. - Acts 28:30-31

We have no definite information about where and when Hebrews was written, or to whom it was addressed. Probably the author wrote it in Italy (“Those who come from Italy send you greetings” – 13:24), although this could mean it was written in a place where Christians from Italy were living.