Which denomination do I belong to?

[Philip James]

.was what the RCC turned into even a small reflection of what first century Christianity revealed itself to be?

"But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to genoito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

CHAPTER LXVI -- OF THE EUCHARIST.

And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh."

Justin Martyr circa 150 AD


Pax et Bonum

 

[Aunty Jane]

No... God didn't. There is only one truth.

Yes, but a thousand different interpretations of it…..where is the diamond in that pile of broken glass?

It is to us to find that truth in Him, and then follow that truth because our lives actually do depend on it.

This is true, we do have to find the truth and follow it in company with others who have likewise been “drawn” by God. (John 6:44; 65) No one can come to the Father except through the son….and no one can come to the son without an invitation from the Father….so what is that telling us?

It tells me that God is gathering us together as his sheep, in one flock. Jesus is the ”fine shepherd” and there is a “doorkeeper” to the pen where the sheep were…..and there was no other way in.

John 10:1-5…
”Most truly I say to you, He that does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer. But he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep. The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has got all his own out, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”

What pen did Jesus lead his disciples “out” of? And who was the “doorkeeper” who let Jesus in to show his sheep the way out? It was John the Baptist, the one sent ahead to “prepare the way of the Lord”.
He baptized those who were then in a repentant condition of heart to accept their Messiah.

There's no points for coming kinda close. You either believe in and follow the doctrine set forward by the apostles, or you don't make it to heaven.

Actually “heaven” was not promised to any but the “elect” or the “chosen ones”. Paul said that these had “the heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1)…..so if all Christians are heaven bound what was the point of specifically identifying the ones who were? And why would God take all the humans to heaven when the earth was made especially for them?

“Heaven” was not the only reward that God offered to the sheep, which were divided into two “folds”. There was a “little flock”, chosen to rule with Christ in his kingdom, and the “other sheep” who will be their subjects on earth.
They were to be “one flock”, with “one shepherd”….just as it says in Eph 4:4-6….
”One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

A desire to live in paradise is natural for all humans since it was to be the place that God designed humans to live forever. All they had to do was obey God’s commands and no evil would ever have entered their lives.
Living forever in paradise would have been amazing! But we lost it due to Adam’s choice to join his disobedient wife. Jesus came to buy back what we lost. (Rev 21:2-4)

Religion shopping as seen in the OP is unscriptural. Darkness has no ability to present any light.

Ah, the great celestial supermarket….as if there could be such a thing….God has one truth, and only he can lead us to it…..as much as we think we choose God, he is equally choosing us on the basis of our love for him, but also our willing obedience to his commands…..not making excuses for what we fail to do.

 

[Aunty Jane]

"But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to genoito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

CHAPTER LXVI -- OF THE EUCHARIST.

And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh."

Justin Martyr circa 150 AD

Not interested in anything but scripture…..
By combining Christianity with philosophy, Justin Martyr disregarded the inspired command to adhere to what is written. (1 Cor 4:6) Other so-called Church Fathers followed his example, accelerating the foretold apostasy. (2 Peter 2:1-3) Why does Christendom deny that it has taken place? It is very obvious that God does not bless Christendom‘s members with anything, more or less than anyone else?

That said, because Justin lived soon after the death of the apostles, his writings at least have historical value. For example, they show that he accepted the established Jewish canon and rejected the apocryphal books.
The foretold apostasy was “already at work” (2 Thess 2:6-8) whilst the apostles were still alive…once the last apostle John died at the end of the first century, he was the last of the restraining influence indicated by Paul, and the weeds spread, now unrestrained, like weeds do…..any gardener knows how easy it is for weeds to grow and flourish in the poorest conditions, whilst we have to have favorable conditions for wheat.

And if you know the parable of the “wheat and the weeds”, Jewish farmers were very familiar with an noxious weed called “bearded darnel” which was a blight to farmers because of its identical appearance to wheat in the early growing stages. It came to be known as “wheat’s evil twin”. It was even used by an enemy to sabotage a neighbors crop.

As the plants grew, and it became evident that darnel was present in the crop, it wasn’t beneficial to the farmer to rip out the weeds because by then the root systems were thoroughly intertwined with the wheat….pulling out he weeds meant uprooting the entire crop of wheat along with it…..so they cut their losses and allowed the crop to come to harvest. The reapers gathered the weeds first and threw them in the fire to be destroyed, then they gathered the wheat into the farmers storehouse.

if you cannot discern what that parable meant, then take a look at the history of the Catholic Church, along with the rest of Christendom, who adopted the foundational doctrines of the counterfeit “Church”, and fractured it even more….now see what God sees. That shaky foundation is about to collapse.

 

[Augustin56]

@Augustin56, your concern about the importance of true beliefs and the unchanging nature of Christ's teachings is valid. The pursuit of truth is indeed a noble goal, and True Christians seek to align themselves with the real authentic teachings of Jesus Christ.
Your reference to Galatians 1:8 underscores the significance of adhering to the original and unaltered doctrines of Christ. The question of whether certain beliefs or teachings have deviated from the foundational truths is crucial for many Christians.
In exploring various denominations and traditions, the goal is to discern the consistency with the core teachings of Christ as presented in the 66 book Bible minus 7 uninspired, unauthored by God extra books. It's an ongoing journey for many believers to seek and embrace the truth while navigating the diverse landscape of Christian beliefs.
If you have specific concerns or points you'd like to discuss regarding the errors the Christians perceive in the papal system or any other aspect, feel free to share, and we can delve deeper into the conversation.

Hey, Tulipbee! On whose authority do you claim that the Bible has 7 uninspired books? It was the Catholic Church, at the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage, that set the canon (list of books) for the Bible, especially the New Testament. If you accept the Church's authority to tell you which books belong in the New Testament, why not the same for the Old Testament?

I think a little history lesson might be helpful to you.

There were actually two versions of the Old Testament floating around when the Bible was compiled into one book in the late fourth century. One was Hebrew and one was Greek. Before Jesus was incarnated, there was a large contingent of Jews living in Alexandria, Egypt, as merchants. Alexandria was a large port city on the Mediterranean Sea. The common language of the Mediterranean countries with regard to commerce and literature, at that time, was Greek. The Jews, being good merchants, worked there for generations and more or less begin forgetting their Hebrew. But, they knew Greek. So, they contacted Israel and asked for a copy of the existing Scriptures to be translated into Greek, which they did.

After Jesus came, and rose to heaven, the Apostles and new Christians begin converting Jews to Christianity, using the Old Testament Scriptures. This, of course, upset the Jewish leaders, who then decided to create an official canon (list of books) for their Old Testament. They purposely left out seven books that had previously been there. So, we now had two versions of Scripture. In the late fourth century, the Catholic Church held three councils to determine which of the 300+ books, documents, letters, etc., that were in circulation were worthy of being considered Scripture. Of all of those, they came up with the 27 that almost everyone agrees are the books of the New Testament. They then chose the Greek version of the Old Testament. Bible scholars have studied both versions of the Old Testament and have determined that 80-85% of the direct and indirect references in the New Testament to the Old Testament point to the Greek version. Therefore, we can conclude that the Greek version was the one Jesus and the Apostles used most often.

Fast forward to the creation of Protestantism in the 16th century. Martin Luther, the leader of the Protestant Reformation, decided, on his own authority, to switch versions of the Old Testament. Hence, Protestant versions of the Bible use the Hebrew version of the Old Testament, which has seven less books. Although, lately, some publishers have been putting the back in, sometimes in the back, from what I've heard.

 

[Augustin56]

Not interested in anything but scripture…..
By combining Christianity with philosophy, Justin Martyr disregarded the inspired command to adhere to what is written. (1 Cor 4:6) Other so-called Church Fathers followed his example, accelerating the foretold apostasy. (2 Peter 2:1-3) Why does Christendom deny that it has taken place? It is very obvious that God does not bless Christendom‘s members with anything, more or less than anyone else?

That said, because Justin lived soon after the death of the apostles, his writings at least have historical value. For example, they show that he accepted the established Jewish canon and rejected the apocryphal books.
The foretold apostasy was “already at work” (2 Thess 2:6-8) whilst the apostles were still alive…once the last apostle John died at the end of the first century, he was the last of the restraining influence indicated by Paul, and the weeds spread, now unrestrained, like weeds do…..any gardener knows how easy it is for weeds to grow and flourish in the poorest conditions, whilst we have to have favorable conditions for wheat.

And if you know the parable of the “wheat and the weeds”, Jewish farmers were very familiar with an noxious weed called “bearded darnel” which was a blight to farmers because of its identical appearance to wheat in the early growing stages. It came to be known as “wheat’s evil twin”. It was even used by an enemy to sabotage a neighbors crop.

As the plants grew, and it became evident that darnel was present in the crop, it wasn’t beneficial to the farmer to rip out the weeds because by then the root systems were thoroughly intertwined with the wheat….pulling out he weeds meant uprooting the entire crop of wheat along with it…..so they cut their losses and allowed the crop to come to harvest. The reapers gathered the weeds first and threw them in the fire to be destroyed, then they gathered the wheat into the farmers storehouse.

if you cannot discern what that parable meant, then take a look at the history of the Catholic Church, along with the rest of Christendom, who adopted the foundational doctrines of the counterfeit “Church”, and fractured it even more….now see what God sees. That shaky foundation is about to collapse.

So, you disagree with St. Paul when he puts oral tradition (oral teachings of Christ) on the same level of authority as Scripture, right? (See 2 Thes 2:15)

 

[DuckieLady]

Am I the only one who reads through some of these threads like I have no idea what is being said?

Like my goodness. I am begging some of you to not be afraid to dumb down what you're saying a little bit.

I have had an easier time reading the ingredients of on the back sugared cereal. Some of us are millennials. Take pity on our attention spans.

It's been a couple years that I've been gone. are we still fighting the catholics?

Is it still about that?

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, you disagree with St. Paul when he puts oral tradition (oral teachings of Christ) on the same level of authority as Scripture, right? (See 2 Thes 2:15)

No, I disagree that what the Catholic church formulated was anything but the kinds of tradition that the Jews were guilty of when Jesus walked the earth.
He said to the Pharisees….
“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

I can see him saying the same thing to your Church heirarchy.

Catholic “tradition” did NOT originate from the teachings of Jesus Christ….it was man-made…mainly adopted from pagan sources and grafted into obscure scripture to pretend that it was from Jesus or the apostles….
The founder of your church was a pagan emperor who was, till his dying day, as much a worshipper of Zeus as he was a professed servant of the Christ.

The doctrines of the Catholic Church are so far removed from the teachings of Jesus Christ, as to be laughable.
Did Jesus venerate his mother? Did any Christian of the first century ever call her “the mother of God”?
Where will I find the doctrine of the immaculate conception?
Were any images of any sort permitted to be used in Jewish worship? Or was the making of any religious image against God’s law?
Was there a papacy in original Christianity? Does scripture mention apostolic succession?
Were there priests officiating at an alter in a Christian cathedral of splendid and opulent proportions?
Did those who led the congregation adopt titles that distinguished them from the brethren, and did they wear distinctive garments?
Was there baptism of infants spoken about in the first century? And could baptism be performed by the sprinkling of water on a baby? Was baptism simply an insurance policy against going to hell?

I could go on and on…..but you have no excuse to accept any of that as gospel truth….you won’t find any of it in the Bible. When you build upon a foundation of lies, nothing will stand when the storm comes…..and it is coming.

 

[DuckieLady]

No, I disagree that what the Catholic church formulated was anything but the kinds of tradition that the Jews were guilty of when Jesus walked the earth.
He said to the Pharisees….
“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

I can see him saying the same thing to your Church heirarchy.

Catholic “tradition” did NOT originate from the teachings of Jesus Christ….it was man-made…mainly adopted from pagan sources and grafted into obscure scripture to pretend that it was from Jesus or the apostles….
The founder of your church was a pagan emperor who was, till his dying day, as much a worshipper of Zeus as he was a professed servant of the Christ.

The doctrines of the Catholic Church are so far removed from the teachings of Jesus Christ, as to be laughable.
Did Jesus venerate his mother? Did any Christian of the first century ever call her “the mother of God”?
Where will I find the doctrine of the immaculate conception?
Were any images of any sort permitted to be used in Jewish worship? Or was the making of any religious image against God’s law?
Was there a papacy in original Christianity? Does scripture mention apostolic succession?
Were there priests officiating at an alter in a Christian cathedral of splendid and opulent proportions?
Did those who led the congregation adopt titles that distinguished them from the brethren, and did they wear distinctive garments?
Was there baptism of infants spoken about in the first century? And could baptism be performed by the sprinkling of water on a baby? Was baptism simply an insurance policy against going to hell?

I could go on and on…..but you have no excuse to accept any of that as gospel truth….you won’t find any of it in the Bible. When you build upon a foundation of lies, nothing will stand when the storm comes…..and it is coming.

Jane weren't you catholic the last time I was here? Or am I remembering wrong?

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just confused.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Am I the only one who reads through some of these threads like I have no idea what is being said?

Like my goodness. I am begging some of you to not be afraid to dumb down what you're saying a little bit.

I have had an easier time reading the ingredients of on the back sugared cereal. Some of us are millennials. Take pity on our attention spans.

Alas, the “attention span” of a goldfish is now the norm for many who do not take a study of the scriptures seriously. Why do we need to come down to the level of the lazy ones? Why not increase your knowledge so as to interact in a genuine discussion about the Bible’s truth? We are not discussing the ingredients on a cereal box.

It's been a couple years that I've been gone. are we still fighting the catholics?

Is it still about that?

If you stop fighting for the truth, then you have surrendered to the lies. We choose what to believe, but at least it should be an informed choice that we make, rather than a convenient one.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jane weren't you catholic the last time I was here? Or am I remembering wrong?

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just confused.

Heck NO! I joined here in 2021…..I wasn’t a Catholic then, and I assure you I would never accept Catholicism as Bible truth….ever.

 

[DuckieLady]

Alas, the “attention span” of a goldfish is now the norm for many who do not take a study of the scriptures seriously. Why do we need to come down to the level of the lazy ones? Why not increase your knowledge so as to interact in a genuine discussion about the Bible’s truth? We are not discussing the ingredients on a cereal box.

If you stop fight for the truth, then you have surrendered to the lies. We choose what to believe, but at least it should be an informed choice that we make, rather than a convenient one.

That wasn't directed towards you. I also have to work, provide for a family, take care of a home, etc.

I'm just being real.

For whatever stage you are in in life that's probably okay for you, but when you present what you have to say in a simple manner, you reach out to more people.

But to answer more specifically, we have a little library of books. The internet is not my go-to. For obvious reasons.

Heck NO! I joined here in 2021…..I wasn’t a Catholic then, and I assure you I would never accept Catholicism as Bible truth….ever.

Apologies. Not really sure what it was then. I can't remember.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Am I the only one who reads through some of these threads like I have no idea what is being said?

Like my goodness. I am begging some of you to not be afraid to dumb down what you're saying a little bit.

I have had an easier time reading the ingredients of on the back sugared cereal. Some of us are millennials. Take pity on our attention spans.

Hahaha... I do that sometimes, just go cross eyed..

Usually if that starts happening with me I take a break from the internet in total for a while and then come back to it.

It usually helps me.

But maybe it will help you to at least know your not alone! It happens to everyone I think from time to time.

 

[Shittim]

Better to be obedient to Jesus teaching, stay in relationship and seek Holy Spirit guidance, then walk it out, praying without ceasing.
Jesus was clear that in these last of the last days most would have an outward form of Godliness, denying the power, whereas His Own would do greater works than He, and many of us are seeing and participating in these greater works, people who argue over scripture and denominations are holding to that outward form. The devil was so good at deceiving he was able to take 1/3 of the angels with him, here in this last of the last, he is even more practiced in deception.
Jesus said His sheep know His voice, He didn't say His sheep read His book, scripture, salvation, and denomination thinking are only the beginning and the place where too many stop, those who are truly His Own continue in relationship and being conformed to the image of the Son.

 

[Tulipbee]

It doesn't sound like people really care to follow Christ's teachings in these last days. If I'm being honest.

As John Calvin expounds in the Institutes of the Christian Religion, "Predestination we call the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation."

Let us delve into the Scriptural foundation and explore how it resonates with Calvinistic principles. Consider Romans 8:29-30, where the apostle Paul writes, "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son... And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

This passage reflects the Calvinistic emphasis on God's sovereign election and predestination, echoing the divine orchestration of salvation. In contrast, Arminianism underscores human free will, positing that individuals can respond to God's grace and play an active role in their salvation.

Yet, as we navigate through the theological intricacies, it is crucial to approach these discussions with humility. Both perspectives arise from a sincere pursuit of understanding God's revealed truths. As Calvin himself wrote, "For until men recognize that they owe everything to God, that they are nourished by his fatherly care, that he is the Author of their every good, that they should seek nothing beyond him—they will never yield him willing service."

In these last days, the call to follow Christ's teachings resonates louder than ever. The nuances of theological debate should not obscure the shared commitment to living out the Gospel message. As Calvinists, let us continue to proclaim the sovereign grace of God, recognizing that our ultimate allegiance lies with the One who predestines and redeems according to His eternal purpose.

 

[Shittim]

Jesus said we are to pray that we are to be judged worthy to escape what is coming.
That conflicts with predestination.
I believe I will go with Jesus.
I suggest all do as well, I don't walk in relationship with John Calvin, nor did He die for my sin.
blessings

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[Tulipbee]

Hey, Tulipbee! On whose authority do you claim that the Bible has 7 uninspired books? It was the Catholic Church, at the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage, that set the canon (list of books) for the Bible, especially the New Testament. If you accept the Church's authority to tell you which books belong in the New Testament, why not the same for the Old Testament?

I think a little history lesson might be helpful to you.

There were actually two versions of the Old Testament floating around when the Bible was compiled into one book in the late fourth century. One was Hebrew and one was Greek. Before Jesus was incarnated, there was a large contingent of Jews living in Alexandria, Egypt, as merchants. Alexandria was a large port city on the Mediterranean Sea. The common language of the Mediterranean countries with regard to commerce and literature, at that time, was Greek. The Jews, being good merchants, worked there for generations and more or less begin forgetting their Hebrew. But, they knew Greek. So, they contacted Israel and asked for a copy of the existing Scriptures to be translated into Greek, which they did.

After Jesus came, and rose to heaven, the Apostles and new Christians begin converting Jews to Christianity, using the Old Testament Scriptures. This, of course, upset the Jewish leaders, who then decided to create an official canon (list of books) for their Old Testament. They purposely left out seven books that had previously been there. So, we now had two versions of Scripture. In the late fourth century, the Catholic Church held three councils to determine which of the 300+ books, documents, letters, etc., that were in circulation were worthy of being considered Scripture. Of all of those, they came up with the 27 that almost everyone agrees are the books of the New Testament. They then chose the Greek version of the Old Testament. Bible scholars have studied both versions of the Old Testament and have determined that 80-85% of the direct and indirect references in the New Testament to the Old Testament point to the Greek version. Therefore, we can conclude that the Greek version was the one Jesus and the Apostles used most often.

Fast forward to the creation of Protestantism in the 16th century. Martin Luther, the leader of the Protestant Reformation, decided, on his own authority, to switch versions of the Old Testament. Hence, Protestant versions of the Bible use the Hebrew version of the Old Testament, which has seven less books. Although, lately, some publishers have been putting the back in, sometimes in the back, from what I've heard.

In the ancient city of Theologica, where the echoes of theological debates reverberated through time, Augustin56 found himself engaged in a spirited conversation about the authority of the Bible and the formation of its canon. The air was thick with the anticipation of unraveling historical truths.

Augustin56, a learned scholar, stood amidst the scrolls of wisdom, and as he spoke, the pages of history unfurled before him. "Hey, Tulipbee! On whose authority do you claim that the Bible has 7 uninspired books? It was the Catholic Church, at the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage, that set the canon for the Bible, especially the New Testament."

In response to this, a figure emerged from the shadows, a scholar named Calvinus, well-versed in the teachings of John Calvin. "Let us explore this through the lens of Calvinistic principles," Calvinus began. "In the Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin emphasized the sovereignty of God and the authority of His Word. The question of the biblical canon, while historically shaped, ultimately finds its foundation in the divine providence of God."

Quoting Calvin's writings, Calvinus continued, "For by a kind of mutual bond, the Lord has joined together the certainty of his Word and of his Spirit, so that the perfect religion of the Word may abide in our minds when the Spirit, who causes us to contemplate God’s face, shines." The Scriptures, according to Calvinistic thought, hold an inherent authority guided by the Holy Spirit.

Augustin56, with a keen understanding of historical nuances, traced the origin of the two versions of the Old Testament. Calvinus listened attentively, acknowledging the intricate history that shaped the biblical canon. "It is crucial to recognize that God's providence extends even to the preservation and compilation of His Word," Calvinus remarked.

Addressing the divergence in Old Testament versions, Calvinus continued, "While historical processes played a role, Calvinists hold fast to the belief that the Spirit of God works through His Word, guiding believers to discern the unchanging truths within the canon." The emphasis on the sovereignty of God and the Holy Spirit's role in guiding believers remained central to Calvinistic thought.

As the imaginary city of Theologica witnessed this exchange, the dialogue continued, inviting further exploration into the depths of biblical authority. May the pursuit of truth and understanding be a journey illuminated by the light of divine revelation and guided by the timeless principles of Calvinism.

The additional unauthored and uninspired book never bore God's fingerprints; it was never part of His divine plan. The false authority claimed by the RCC was never granted by God. God inspired Luther to discern and remove what he deemed as extraneous, and Luther faithfully carried out that task.
------------------------------------------------
What is the so-called "heptadic" structure that Dr. Panin discovered? Simply stated it is this: genuine Scripture, both Hebrew and Greek. where the numbers equivalent with the letters are added up properly. at some point: word, sentence, paragraph, or chapter, will always be divisible by the number seven! And, beyond this, utilization of "place numbers" determines punctuation as well as proper chronology of the various books. This mathematical phenomena occurs and reoccurs only in Holy Scripture and thus rules out all that is spurious. For instance, the "Apocrypha", the fourteen books written during the 400 year "inter-testament" period between Malachi of the Old Testament and Matthew of the New, have no numerics whatsoever and are thereby revealed as being merely of man. Numerous Greek classical writings have also been checked with no evidence of Bible numerics found. Thus Dr. Panin determined that Scripture and only Scripture has this numeric "signature of Divinity" within it. BIBLE NUMERICS EXAMINED -- PART 2
--------------------------------------

 

[Tulipbee]

Alas, the “attention span” of a goldfish is now the norm for many who do not take a study of the scriptures seriously. Why do we need to come down to the level of the lazy ones? Why not increase your knowledge so as to interact in a genuine discussion about the Bible’s truth? We are not discussing the ingredients on a cereal box.

If you stop fighting for the truth, then you have surrendered to the lies. We choose what to believe, but at least it should be an informed choice that we make, rather than a convenient one.

In the mystical town of Theologica, where discussions unfolded like chapters in an ancient tome, Aunty Jane stood as a beacon of unwavering commitment to the teachings of Christ. The air was thick with the exchange of ideas, and the stars overhead witnessed the unfolding dialogue.

As LadyofFireandLace expressed the challenges of deciphering complex discussions, Aunty Jane responded with a resolute stance. "Alas, the 'attention span' of a goldfish is now the norm for many who do not take a study of the scriptures seriously," she remarked. The words echoed the sentiment that delving into the profound truths of the Bible requires dedication and a genuine desire to understand.

In the midst of the cosmic conversations, the topic shifted to the ongoing discourse about the Catholic Church. LadyofFireandLace inquired if the discussions still revolved around that age-old controversy. Aunty Jane, with the conviction of a seasoned warrior, responded, "If you stop fighting for the truth, then you have surrendered to the lies. We choose what to believe, but at least it should be an informed choice that we make, rather than a convenient one."

At this juncture, a figure emerged from the shadows, a scholar named Calvinus, well-versed in the teachings of John Calvin. With a gentle yet profound tone, he began to share insights from the Institutes of the Christian Religion. "In the pursuit of truth, let us draw from the timeless wisdom of Calvin," he expressed. "For by a kind of mutual bond, the Lord has joined together the certainty of his Word and of his Spirit, so that the perfect religion of the Word may abide in our minds when the Spirit, who causes us to contemplate God’s face, shines."

As the imaginary stars twinkled overhead, Calvinus continued, "In Calvinism, the emphasis is on the sovereignty of God and the transformative power of His Word. It is a call to deepen our understanding and engage in genuine discussions about the profound truths of the Scriptures."

In the realm of Theologica, where kindness and respect were cherished virtues, the dialogue continued under the celestial tapestry. May the pursuit of truth be guided by the light of understanding, and may the exchange of ideas be marked by the kindness that Aunty Jane exemplified. #ChristianReflections

 

[Tulipbee]

Jesus said we are to pray that we are to be judged worthy to escape what is coming.
That conflicts with predestination.
I believe I will go with Jesus.
I suggest all do as well, I don't walk in relationship with John Calvin, nor did He die for my sin.
blessings

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In the tranquil hamlet of Theologica, where theological musings flowed like a gentle stream, Shittim found himself pondering the intersection of predestination and the profound words of Jesus. The sun dipped below the horizon, casting a warm glow on the pages of ancient scrolls.

As Shittim voiced his thoughts, a figure named Calvinus, steeped in the teachings of John Calvin, emerged from the shadows. With a respectful demeanor, Calvinus began, "In the Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin explores the mystery of predestination, acknowledging that God, in His infinite wisdom, has chosen a people for Himself."

Quoting from Calvin's writings, Calvinus continued, "God's predestination does not negate the call to pray and seek escape from what is coming. Rather, it underscores the sovereign plan of God, who invites His people to participate in the unfolding of His divine purpose."

Shittim, standing under the canopy of the ancient trees, listened attentively. Calvinus continued, "In Calvinism, the understanding is that God's predestination does not diminish the urgency of prayer and the call to align oneself with the teachings of Jesus. It is a harmonious dance between God's sovereignty and human responsibility."

Quoting Jesus' words, Calvinus spoke, "Indeed, Jesus urges us to pray and be watchful. Calvinism echoes this sentiment, emphasizing a life of prayer and seeking God's mercy and guidance in the face of what is to come."

As the evening breeze rustled the leaves, Calvinus extended a hand in kindness. "In the pursuit of understanding, let us walk together, respecting the perspectives that shape our beliefs. May the gospel message of redemption through Christ's sacrifice be a beacon guiding our paths," he proclaimed.

Shittim, appreciating the dialogue, nodded in agreement. The two figures continued their conversation under the starlit sky, sharing insights and kindness, as the timeless truths of Calvinism and the gospel resonated in the quiet corners of Theologica. #ChristianReflections

 

[Augustin56]

No, I disagree that what the Catholic church formulated was anything but the kinds of tradition that the Jews were guilty of when Jesus walked the earth.
He said to the Pharisees….
“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

I can see him saying the same thing to your Church heirarchy.

Catholic “tradition” did NOT originate from the teachings of Jesus Christ….it was man-made…mainly adopted from pagan sources and grafted into obscure scripture to pretend that it was from Jesus or the apostles….
The founder of your church was a pagan emperor who was, till his dying day, as much a worshipper of Zeus as he was a professed servant of the Christ.

The doctrines of the Catholic Church are so far removed from the teachings of Jesus Christ, as to be laughable.
Did Jesus venerate his mother? Did any Christian of the first century ever call her “the mother of God”?
Where will I find the doctrine of the immaculate conception?
Were any images of any sort permitted to be used in Jewish worship? Or was the making of any religious image against God’s law?
Was there a papacy in original Christianity? Does scripture mention apostolic succession?
Were there priests officiating at an alter in a Christian cathedral of splendid and opulent proportions?
Did those who led the congregation adopt titles that distinguished them from the brethren, and did they wear distinctive garments?
Was there baptism of infants spoken about in the first century? And could baptism be performed by the sprinkling of water on a baby? Was baptism simply an insurance policy against going to hell?

I could go on and on…..but you have no excuse to accept any of that as gospel truth….you won’t find any of it in the Bible. When you build upon a foundation of lies, nothing will stand when the storm comes…..and it is coming.

Then you deny history. We can agree to disagree. What a great country we have where we can speak our minds, rightly or wrongly. For now, anyway.

The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the original doctrines given mankind by Christ. There was no other Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Orthodox splintered off, but retained Apostolic Succession. Protestantism didn't begin till the 16th century.

You have to ask yourself, if you have a different set of doctrines than the Catholic Church, where did they come from? Did Jesus come back and make some "corrections?" Or an angel (like the Mormon's seem to claim)? Where did this new "information" come from? Personal interpretation of the Bible? That clearly doesn't work since we have tens of thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting Protestant denominations, all claiming to read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, but coming up with different and contradictory interpretations.

Tell me, where did this new information, contradictory to the original information, come from?

 

[Tulipbee]

Then you deny history. We can agree to disagree. What a great country we have where we can speak our minds, rightly or wrongly. For now, anyway.

The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the original doctrines given mankind by Christ. There was no other Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Orthodox splintered off, but retained Apostolic Succession. Protestantism didn't begin till the 16th century.

You have to ask yourself, if you have a different set of doctrines than the Catholic Church, where did they come from? Did Jesus come back and make some "corrections?" Or an angel (like the Mormon's seem to claim)? Where did this new "information" come from? Personal interpretation of the Bible? That clearly doesn't work since we have tens of thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting Protestant denominations, all claiming to read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit, but coming up with different and contradictory interpretations.

Tell me, where did this new information, contradictory to the original information, come from?

Augustin56,

As a Calvinist, I must respectfully disagree with your assertion that the doctrines of the Catholic Church are the original doctrines given mankind by Christ. The Roman Catholic Church has a long history of adding to and changing the teachings of Scripture, resulting in a system of beliefs that is far removed from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The claim that there was no other Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity is simply not true. There were numerous Christian communities that existed outside of the Roman Catholic Church, many of which held to beliefs that were different from those of Rome. The Orthodox Church, for example, split from the Roman Catholic Church in 1054 AD, but it traces its roots back to the early centuries of Christianity.

Protestantism did not begin in the 16th century; it is a continuation of the Reformation movement that began in the 15th century. The Reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, sought to restore the church to its biblical foundations and to reject the errors of the Roman Catholic Church.

The doctrines of the Catholic Church are not based on Scripture but on human tradition and papal authority. This is evident in the fact that there are numerous Catholic doctrines that are not found in the Bible, such as the immaculate conception, purgatory, and the veneration of Mary.

The claim that personal interpretation of the Bible does not work because it has led to tens of thousands of Protestant denominations is a false equivalence. The differences between Protestant denominations are not on the essential doctrines of the Christian faith, such as the deity of Christ, the need for salvation through faith in Him, and the authority of Scripture. Rather, they are on secondary issues, such as church government, baptism, and the Lord's Supper.

The new information that Protestants claim to have received did not come from a new revelation or from personal interpretation of the Bible. It came from a careful study of Scripture and a rejection of the errors of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Roman Catholic Church has a long history of suppressing and distorting the gospel message. It has persecuted those who dared to challenge its authority and has used its political power to enforce its doctrines. The errors of the papal system are many, and they have led millions of people astray.

I urge you to reconsider your position on the Roman Catholic Church and to embrace the biblical teaching that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.