Which view does Zechariah 14 support? Premil or Amil?

[3 Resurrections]

Even though I don't agree with you here, does this at least mean that you agree that Zechariah 14:9 can't parallel the era of time involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and can't come to pass until the 7th trumpet has sounded first, since I'm assuming, unless you tell me otherwise, that you likely also think the 7th trumpet already sounded 2000 years ago as well?

Paul in 2 Thess. 2 (written around AD 54) was giving the believers the particular sign of the Man of Lawlessness to look for (Menahem the Zealot leader making his Messiah claim as "King of the Jews" in the temple in mid AD 66.) This happened just after the Zealot rebellion (the "apostasia" of 2 Thess. 2:3) had first erupted in Israel against Rome in the spring of AD 66. Once both of these events came to pass, the believers could then know that the Lord's second coming return was near at hand in their generation, when the resurrected saints would all be gathered together unto Him and return to heaven with Him.

This AD 70 second coming bodily return of Christ to the Mount of Olives was prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5. By "shattering the power of the holy people" during those "time, times, and half a time" from AD 66-70 (as Daniel 12:7 had predicted) the remaining members of the high priest kings of the earth were done away with. God did this on purpose during those tumultuous years, to rid the land of Israel of any obsolete, competing remnants of the OC high priesthood "kings". Christ Jesus as the ultimate Great High Priest "King of kings" was going to be the only high priest "King" left standing, once those former high priesthood "kings of the earth" were destroyed and their temple torn down to the last stone. Zechariah 14:9 was fulfilled back in AD 70.

And yes, the 7th trumpet sounded long ago in the AD 70 year.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are so fixated with natural Christ-rejecting Israel and so reluctant to move from the old covenant arrangement to the new that you fail to see the new covenant meaning of this Messianic prophecy. The OT kings, priests, judges and prophets were simply a typical foreshadowing of the NT fulfillment. This did not mean that Israel's king was going to arrive and reign in the same way the literalist Jews of Christ's days expected and which our Premil brethren imagine. No! Quite the opposite. That is why many rejected Christ. He did not fit their expectation.

I showed you Scripture that proves that Christ assumed David's throne in heaven since His resurrection.

You showed me a passage of scripture that you interpret to be a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, which I easily defeated. David's domain was located in Israel. And so, for Jesus to sit on David's throne is for Jesus to rule over David's domain.

This is a spiritual reign over the Israel of God (God's elect). Their enemies are God's enemies. Jesus is Messiah and King now.

David did not have a spiritual domain. He had a political domain. The prophets promised that a savior would come and free Israel from her enemies. That promise has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[WPM]

I didn't address them because, as I said, they are irrelevant for the reasons I gave you. You and I have already had lengthy conversations about the Amil view. And I have spent a long time considering why we disagree. The locus of our disagreement is centered on the future role of Jesus as the Savior General in the classic sense. This role is clearly defined in scripture, but ignored by the Amil position.

It is your denial of Christ's Godhood, Lordship and kingship is where we disagree. You have no answer to the scared text. You think your opinions trump God's Word. Sad!

 

[WPM]

You showed me a passage of scripture that you interpret to be a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, which I easily defeated. David's domain was located in Israel. And so, for Jesus to sit on David's throne is for Jesus to rule over David's domain.

David did not have a spiritual domain. He had a political domain. The prophets promised that a savior would come and free Israel from her enemies. That promise has yet to be fulfilled.

David's old covenant rule over natural Israel was simply an imperfect type of Christ's heavenly rule over the kingdom of God in the New Testament. Each OT king pointed to heaven's coming king. Each OT Judge pointed to thee coming judge. Each OT prophet pointed to the coming prophet. Each OT priest pointed to our coming great high priest. The whole old covenant ceremonial apparatus was simply pointing to the coming atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sin. You do not seem to see the typical purpose of the old arrangement. We are not going back there. It has been superseded long ago and will never return.

The main difference between the Old Testament period and the New Testament period is their perspective of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament was looking forward to the coming Messiah. The New Testament reveals His arrival and precious work on man’s behalf. As we dig deeper and compare both, we notice that there are notable differences between the two arrangements. We see a significant move:

• From the shadow and type to the substance and reality
• From the imperfect to the perfect
• From the inadequate to the all-sufficient.
• From the physical to the spiritual
• From the external to the internal
• From the natural to the supernatural
• From the temporary to the eternal
• From the earthly to the heavenly
• From the national to the international
• From the conditional to the unconditional

These two economies couldn’t be more diverse. The improvement is obvious, substantial and indisputable. The repercussions are even greater for mankind. What was long-anticipated by the old covenant prophets has now wonderfully arrived. The appearance of Israel’s Messiah was the pivotal moment in history and the catalyst for a colossal transformative change.

 

[Marty fox]

David's old covenant rule over natural Israel was simply an imperfect type of Christ's heavenly rule over the kingdom of God in the New Testament. Each OT king pointed to heaven's coming king. Each OT Judge pointed to thee coming judge. Each OT prophet pointed to the coming prophet. Each OT priest pointed to our coming great high priest. The whole old covenant ceremonial apparatus was simply pointing to the coming atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sin. You do not seem to se the typical purpose of the old arrangement. We are not going back there. It has been superseded long ago and will never return.

The main difference between the Old Testament period and the New Testament period is their perspective of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament was looking forward to the coming Messiah. The New Testament reveals His arrival and precious work on man’s behalf. As we dig deeper and compare both, we notice that there are notable differences between the two arrangements. We see a significant move:

• From the shadow and type to the substance and reality
• From the imperfect to the perfect
• From the inadequate to the all-sufficient.
• From the physical to the spiritual
• From the external to the internal
• From the natural to the supernatural
• From the temporary to the eternal
• From the earthly to the heavenly
• From the national to the international
• From the conditional to the unconditional

These two economies couldn’t be more diverse. The improvement is obvious, substantial and indisputable. The repercussions are even greater for mankind. What was long-anticipated by the old covenant prophets has now wonderfully arrived. The appearance of Israel’s Messiah was the pivotal moment in history and the catalyst for a colossal transformative change.

What OT Israel missed is that they didn't know that the Messiah was also God. He would save them from their sins not Roman occupation .

Jesus wasn't killed for claiming to be the Messiah He was killed for claiming to be God

 

[Davidpt]

Paul in 2 Thess. 2 (written around AD 54) was giving the believers the particular sign of the Man of Lawlessness to look for (Menahem the Zealot leader making his Messiah claim as "King of the Jews" in the temple in mid AD 66.) This happened just after the Zealot rebellion (the "apostasia" of 2 Thess. 2:3) had first erupted in Israel against Rome in the spring of AD 66. Once both of these events came to pass, the believers could then know that the Lord's second coming return was near at hand in their generation, when the resurrected saints would all be gathered together unto Him and return to heaven with Him.

This AD 70 second coming bodily return of Christ to the Mount of Olives was prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5. By "shattering the power of the holy people" during those "time, times, and half a time" from AD 66-70 (as Daniel 12:7 had predicted) the remaining members of the high priest kings of the earth were done away with. God did this on purpose during those tumultuous years, to rid the land of Israel of any obsolete, competing remnants of the OC high priesthood "kings". Christ Jesus as the ultimate Great High Priest "King of kings" was going to be the only high priest "King" left standing, once those former high priesthood "kings of the earth" were destroyed and their temple torn down to the last stone. Zechariah 14:9 was fulfilled back in AD 70.

And yes, the 7th trumpet sounded long ago in the AD 70 year.

It boils down to this then. For me to accept an Amil interpretation of Zechariah 14:9 that it is already involving the here and now, means that I first need to accept your interpretation since your interpretation is not contradicting anything recorded in Zechariah 14:9. Your interpretation doesn't have, as far as I can tell, Zechariah 14:9 paralleling the era of time 2 Thessalonians 2:4 involving, nor does it have Zechariah 14:9 meaning before the 7th trumpet sounds first.

These other Amils that have Zechariah 14:9 involving the here and now have zero to support that since they believe 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is involving the here and now, either presently or soon to be, and that they don't believe the 7th trumpet has already sounded, but that it is to sound in the future. Therefore, contradicting both of those things if Zechariah 14:9 is already applicable now.

And the thing is, no way am I ever going to accept your position involving these things, therefore, no way am I ever going to accept that Zechariah 14:9 is applicable to the here and now like some Amils insist. Because, unlike you, they are not arguing that both 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and the 7th trumpet were already fulfilled 2000 years ago, therefore, they couldn't remotely be correct that Zechariah 14:9 is already applicable to the here and now unless you are correct first. And clearly, you are not. Maybe in your mind, you are. But not in my mind, though.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's not what I wrote. Satan was loosed from his millennial chain for a "short time" and a "little season" at the time of Christ's ascension in AD 33. He and his devils were cast out of heaven down to earth in great wrath after that AD 33 war in heaven. It was Christ's blood sacrifice arriving in heaven on His ascension day which ruined Satan's ability to accuse the brethren anymore. John warned the believers in Revelation 12:12 that Satan's "short time" of harassing the inhabitants of the world on earth had begun already (at the end of the millennium). Satan's deception of the nations had been bound during the millennium before then, but after Christ's ascension, Satan's active deception of the nations ramped up again big time.

This is why the Ephesians "armor of God" against Satan's attacks was so necessary in those first-century days - Satan like a "roaring lion" was in full battle mode for that brief period of time, knowing it would not last very long. In AD 70, Satan's "short time" was over, and God slew that Dragon, just as He had predicted in both Isaiah 27:1 and Ezekiel 28:18-19, so that Satan would no longer exist.

Satan is not bound anymore. He's dead - burned to literal ashes on the earth in the sight of kings, just like God promised in Ezekiel 28:18-19. Satan's period of being bound for the millennium years was long before Christ's earthly ministry of casting out devils. The mere fact that Christ was able to do this was proof that Satan had already "FIRST" been bound, because Christ was spoiling Satan's goods, just like the "strong man" had to be bound FIRST, and only then could his goods be plundered.

Okay, I apologize for getting your view wrong. But I cannot see Satan as "dead."

 

[3 Resurrections]

Okay, I apologize for getting your view wrong. But I cannot see Satan as "dead."

Let me ask you this: can you see scripture teaching that Satan was going to be slain by God at some point? As in Isaiah 27:1 and Ezekiel 28:18-19? Many think that Satan is an immortal creature which cannot possibly be destroyed out of existence. Are you of this opinion yourself perhaps?

 

[Timtofly]

Totally disagree. The Roman Empire represented the Gentile nations of the known world at that time. It came against Jerusalem a long time ago. You need to read the historic accounts of AD70 especially Josephus and note how horrendous the destruction was and deep the persecution and lasting the consequences, and then you would not be a dismissive about the gravity of AD70.

The destruction of the city and the raping of the city occurred in AD 70. At that time the Roman Empire enjoyed jurisdiction over the whole known world (Luke 2:1). Jerusalem was destroyed because of their rejection of Christ. The Gentiles came against the city, but the Gospel in turn went out among the Gentiles with great success.

What does any of this post have to do with Zechariah 14? Did Jesus step on the mount of Olives in 70AD, and set up His throne in Jerusalem?

Did the nations come against the Jerusalem from above?

Jesus Himself destroys the works of earth both in Jerusalem and the rest of all nations. Then makes Jerusalem brand new.

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain."

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

There will be a throne in this earthly Jerusalem after the old is changed into new.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Did the 7th Trumpet sound in the first century?

No one is denying the Lord has always reigned over creation from Genesis 1 until the end of the Day of the Lord.

But do the nations themselves submit to that authority? There is really a difference between Jesus reigning and sin reigning on the earth. Jesus reigns over the earth, but sin reigns on the earth as long as humans are in Adam's dead state. The Day of the Lord is a period of time where sin has been removed from this earth and this creation. Not just the formation of a new creation.

Your point is that Jerusalem was never physically attacked in the first century, only spiritually, and was spiritually restored, for all time, despite what history actually records. That since the first century Jerusalem has been set aside as Holy and the model city, that all other cities must follow as a spiritual example.

"Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts:"

 

[Randy Kluth]

Let me ask you this: can you see scripture teaching that Satan was going to be slain by God at some point? As in Isaiah 27:1 and Ezekiel 28:18-19? Many think that Satan is an immortal creature which cannot possibly be destroyed out of existence. Are you of this opinion yourself perhaps?

No, I've been taught since my youth that angels and men have eternal spirits. I don't equate the term "immortal" with "eternal," because only the saved are said to obtain immortal bodies. I think "immortality" has to do with our participation in the Tree of Life.

People are destroyed and killed in the present age of mortality. This happens when the soul, which is a spirit created for a human body, is separated from its body. It assumes an unnatural "naked" condition.

But a resurrection will take place, according to Dan 12, for both the righteous and the wicked. However, only the righteous will obtain "immortality," whatever that means?

Angels are said to have existed as long as the time we've been here, and don't appear to age. They are bound in pits, which is not the same thing as "death" or "annihilation."

So no, I don't think either angels or men die. But they are eternally judged.

 

[ewq1938]

So no, I don't think either angels or men die.

Men die and have been doing it since the first one. While I typed this, many men (humans) have died.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Men die and have been doing it since the first one. While I typed this, many men (humans) have died.

Yes, I said: "People are destroyed and killed in the present age of mortality. This happens when the soul, which is a spirit created for a human body, is separated from its body. It assumes an unnatural "naked" condition."

I should probably have been clearer by stating that *spirits* of angels and men don't die. In context that's what I meant to say. Obviously, people die. This is an "age of mortality." This is an age when human spirits gets separated from their bodies, and they "die."

So the soul, when it is separated from its body, dies. But as a spirit it does *not* die. Otherwise, how could it experience a 2nd death (if it a wicked human being)? The 1st death obviously didn't do its job!

 

[ewq1938]

I should probably have been clearer by stating that *spirits* of angels and men don't die. In context that's what I meant to say.

Ok, but they can die but don't of normal "natural" causes like accidents, murder or old age etc. A spirit/soul is mortal as in capable of being killed and dying but only God retains this power. I God did not intervene, the spirit/soul would live forever but God will judge all of them, and the second death will happen.

So the soul, when it is separated from its body, dies.

No, neither soul or spirit dies when separated from the body. Only the body dies.

Gen 35:16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
Gen 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Gen 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

Here the soul is leaving body at death.

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Here we have a dead child whose soul has left the body. After prayer, allows soul to return to child and child comes back to life. The body is dead if the soul is not present.

But as a spirit it does *not* die. Otherwise, how could it experience a 2nd death (if it a wicked human being)? The 1st death obviously didn't do its job!

The first death is only death of body. The second death is death of body, soul and spirit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

David's old covenant rule over natural Israel was simply an imperfect type of Christ's heavenly rule over the kingdom of God in the New Testament.

Typology is not a valid method of Biblical interpretation. Using Typology, one can make the scriptures say whatever they want.

 

[WPM]

What does any of this post have to do with Zechariah 14? Did Jesus step on the mount of Olives in 70AD, and set up His throne in Jerusalem?

Did the nations come against the Jerusalem from above?

Jesus Himself destroys the works of earth both in Jerusalem and the rest of all nations. Then makes Jerusalem brand new.

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain."

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

There will be a throne in this earthly Jerusalem after the old is changed into new.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Did the 7th Trumpet sound in the first century?

No one is denying the Lord has always reigned over creation from Genesis 1 until the end of the Day of the Lord.

But do the nations themselves submit to that authority? There is really a difference between Jesus reigning and sin reigning on the earth. Jesus reigns over the earth, but sin reigns on the earth as long as humans are in Adam's dead state. The Day of the Lord is a period of time where sin has been removed from this earth and this creation. Not just the formation of a new creation.

Your point is that Jerusalem was never physically attacked in the first century, only spiritually, and was spiritually restored, for all time, despite what history actually records. That since the first century Jerusalem has been set aside as Holy and the model city, that all other cities must follow as a spiritual example.

"Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts:"

The prophets frequently intermixed literal and figurative language in their predictions. That makes it difficult to dissect. Even in the midst of the most literal of passages in the Bible, mountains are repeatedly used to impress deep spiritual truths. The predicted mountain moving ministry of John the Baptist is a case-in-point. The result of the cross saw the Gospel go out to both Jew and Gentile alike. The scope of the cross-work reached far-and-wide.

There are about five hundred references to mountains and hills in Scripture. The Bible refers to both the physical reality of actual geographical locations and also equally uses them as spiritual symbols.

Mountains and hills of course refer to literal landscapes in Scripture, but they are also used as symbols to declare the nature of God or divine truth. God and His love are compared to the mountains and hills in Scripture. Psalm 125:2 states: “As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.” Psalm 121:1 declares: “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.” Psalm 36:6: “Thy righteousness is like the great mountains.” Psalm 76:4: “Thou art more glorious and excellent than the mountains of prey.”

Mountains and hills can be joyful (Psalm 65:12, 89:12, 98:8), they can skip and leap (Psalm 114:4, 6), they can sing (Isiah 44:23 & 55:12). The prophets Ezekiel and Micah spoke to the mountains and picture God doing the same (Ezekiel 6:3, Ezekiel 36:4 & 6, Micah 6:1–2). In Joel 3 “the mountains” are oozing “new wine” and “the hills” flowing “with milk” (vv 18). Even the most partisan literalist would struggle to force a literal meaning upon these depictions. The reality is: most of the writings of the major and minor prophets are characterized with figurative portrayals and pictorial verbiage. There is no way that the mountains and hills in the Middle East will one day be acting like humans or dispensing drinks like a drinks machine.

The majesty and power of kingdoms are often identified in Scripture with the magnificent and splendor of mountains.

The splitting of the Mount of Olives so that God's people could escape to safety sounds similar to Christ saying faith can move mountains. The references to topographical changes could therefore be viewed in a figurative manner. This kind of language is common throughout the Old Testament. It seems to be talking about spiritual matters. In fact, we know that John the Baptist was responsible for bringing every mountain low and exalting every valley through his pivotal preparatory ministry.

Luke 3:4-5 records, speaking of that great forerunner of Christ – John the Baptist, “As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet (in Isaiah 40:3-5), saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth.”

This prophecy did not in any way insinuate that John was arriving with a great earth-remover in order to flatten “every mountain and hill” around Jerusalem, nor to fill in the natural valleys that surrounded the city. No. Like Luke, Zechariah was not looking for physical change in the geographical terrain of natural Israel. He was simply speaking in figurative hyperbole describing what God wanted to do in the hearts of the people. He was articulating the colossal impact the coming of Christ’s kingdom had upon the earth.

We see the same idea presented in Isaiah 41:14-15: “Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.”

Commentators see a connection between this and assignment of John the Baptist. They take this as denoting the successful spread of the Gospel by faithful Israel and it conquering of nations and kingdoms. Zechariah is seen challenging a mountain in Zechariah 4:7, declaring: “Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain.” The mountain here seems to symbolize a wicked resisting power or powers. The prophet predicts that they will be brought low.

Micah 1:3-5 said of Christ: “For, behold, the LORD cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth. And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem?”

In Micah 1:3 we are told that God “is coming forth from His place” to “come down and tread on the high places of the earth.” This descriptive language is no different from the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives with the result that it will split. It was not uncommon for prophets to use figurative expressions about the Lord coming down, mountains trembling, being scattered, and hills bowing (Habakkuk 3:6, 10); mountains flowing down at his presence (Isaiah 64:1, 3); or mountains and hills singing and the trees clapping their hands” (Isaiah 55:12).

This passage is portraying the great global expanse of the Gospel. Jehovah God would no longer be limited to one small nation in the Middle East. Indeed “the LORD shall be king over all the earth.” When Christ came He ushered the great evangelization of the nations. Nations that were once hopelessly outside of Christ and outside of hope would now, in this Gospel age, experience God in a very personal and living way. He is now the Lord of the nations. The heathen have been embracing Him in their millions for years. Jew and Gentile are all one in Christ now. There is no longer any division between the two. There is one Lord and Savior of all the earth.

Jesus used similar language in Matthew 17:20-21: “If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.”

Mountains are shown here to be moved by simple faith. Obviously, they are not literal. This correlates with Isaiah 40:3-5, Micah 1:3-5 and Zechariah 14:4.

 

[WPM]

Typology is not a valid method of Biblical interpretation. Using Typology, one can make the scriptures say whatever they want.

Maybe in your world. But the typology I am advocated is accepted my most orthodox believers. You have no answer to it. You avoid every single Scripture.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Maybe in your world. But the typology I am advocated is accept my most orthodox believers. You have no answer to it. You avoid every single Scripture.

Typology has nothing to do with orthodoxy. It is nothing but an incorrect way to interpret the scriptures. Listen, people believe all kinds of things; some of them are true, and others are false. In this forum, we are helping other people sort out the issues associated with this particular topic.

Your claim that Jesus has been given all authority is correct, and it is without dispute as I have said. But his location sitting at the right hand of the Father does NOT fulfill God's word that Jesus would sit on David's throne. If you think so, then prove it from scripture for the benefit of all.

 

[DavidTaylor]

We should be able, at times, when dealing with difficult passages like Zech 14, be able to answer that a clear and precise and detailed explanation that makes everyone agree, sometimes just isn’t available.

My best way to explain it, is to recognize the dozens of clear and concise NT passages that exist across multiple books and writers, that tell us sinful, mortal, continuation ends at the 2nd Coming. The Resurrection, Judgment, Rewards, etc…are all decided then.

Understanding and accepting those clear witnesses, will prevent misread Zech 14 into being something it cannot be.

For me, I cannot let a specific interpretation of Zech 14, break all clear NT 2nd Coming passages.

 

[WPM]

Typology has nothing to do with orthodoxy. It is nothing but an incorrect way to interpret the scriptures. Listen, people believe all kinds of things; some of them are true, and others are false. In this forum, we are helping other people sort out the issues associated with this particular topic.

Your claim that Jesus has been given all authority is correct, and it is without dispute as I have said. But his location sitting at the right hand of the Father does NOT fulfill God's word that Jesus would sit on David's throne. If you think so, then prove it from scripture for the benefit of all.

I showed you above but you avoided it.

NT Scripture shows that Jesus is now on David's throne since His resurrection. Paul joins Peter in relating the fulfilment of the Messianic enthronement to Christ’s current kingly reign in heaven. This truth is confirmed in Acts 13:22-23. Paul speaking to the religious Jews in Antioch says, concerning the promise of the Messiah and His rise to the throne of David, which was made unto their forefathers, “he (God) raised (aorist active indicative) up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man's (David’s) seed hath God according to his promise raised (aorist active indicative) unto Israel a saviour, Jesus.”

This Davidic reference was used by Paul to demonstrate (to his Israeli audience) that the much-anticipated eternal Davidic reign (prophesied for centuries in the Old Testament) had arrived in the form of Jesus Christ and His glorious resurrection. Christ was indeed Israel’s anticipated “king” and “saviour.” Premillennialists are selective in their interpretation of passages like this. The reason being: they have to be! Passages like this negate their doctrine. Whilst they except Christ as Israel’s current “saviour,” they do not except Him was Israel’s current ruling “king.” However, this text exposes their objection. This passage proves that Christ is presented as already perfectly fulfilling the Davidic expectancy.

Paul adds in Acts 13:26-30, “Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead.”

It is clear from this whole chapter that these misguided Jews still foolishly yearned for a coming Messiah who would one day reign upon a physical temporal earthly throne in Jerusalem, when He had in fact already come and rose to the heavenly Davidic throne. These earthly-minded Jews totally missed the hour of their visitation because of their false theology. They totally misunderstood who their Messiah was and what form His reign would look like. The sobering part of this text is, their misinterpretation of Scripture, and their false expectation, caused them to miss their Messiah. The fact is, He came to Israel and most Jews never even recognised Him for who He was. They had such a wrong perception of their own king.

Paul then enlarges and explains, “And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers (speaking about the kingly Messianic reign that would usher from the seed of David), God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that [Psalm 2] he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise [His glorious rise to the throne], I will give you the sure mercies of David [quoting Isaiah 55:3]” (vv 32-34).

What is majorly significant with this whole discourse from an eschatological point of view is that Paul references 2 popular Old Testament prophecies that the Jews commonly used anticipating the Messianic appearing and Davidic reign and showed how they have been fulfilled in the person of Christ and the victory of the resurrection. Here in explicit language Paul describes the realization of these Messianic predictions; the promised Messiah had already come and taken the throne of David, although, evidently, not in the person or in the manner that they had carnally imagined.

Paul here applies the Old Testament Davidic promises in Psalm 2 and Isaiah 55 to Christ’s resurrection to the throne; and explains how such prophecies had already marvellously happened. Christ’s sinless life and His atoning death would’ve meant nothing if He hadn’t conquered the grave. Isaiah 55:3 reads, “I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”

By employing these two messianic passages, Paul is, here, confirming an important (and truly significant) eternal truth that proves that Christ has already assumed His kingly reign over Israel, as the prophets said it would be. His victorious triumph over death at the resurrection was the complete fulfilment of “the promise which was made unto the (Old Testament) fathers.” The reading declares, “God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus.” Then speaking of this glorious act, Paul says, “And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise I will give you the sure mercies of David.”

 

[Timtofly]

The prophets frequently intermixed literal and figurative language in their predictions. That makes it difficult to dissect. Even in the midst of the most literal of passages in the Bible, mountains are repeatedly used to impress deep spiritual truths. The predicted mountain moving ministry of John the Baptist is a case-in-point. The result of the cross saw the Gospel go out to both Jew and Gentile alike. The scope of the cross-work reached far-and-wide.

There are about five hundred references to mountains and hills in Scripture. The Bible refers to both the physical reality of actual geographical locations and also equally uses them as spiritual symbols.

Mountains and hills of course refer to literal landscapes in Scripture, but they are also used as symbols to declare the nature of God or divine truth. God and His love are compared to the mountains and hills in Scripture. Psalm 125:2 states: “As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.” Psalm 121:1 declares: “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.” Psalm 36:6: “Thy righteousness is like the great mountains.” Psalm 76:4: “Thou art more glorious and excellent than the mountains of prey.”

Mountains and hills can be joyful (Psalm 65:12, 89:12, 98:8), they can skip and leap (Psalm 114:4, 6), they can sing (Isiah 44:23 & 55:12). The prophets Ezekiel and Micah spoke to the mountains and picture God doing the same (Ezekiel 6:3, Ezekiel 36:4 & 6, Micah 6:1–2). In Joel 3 “the mountains” are oozing “new wine” and “the hills” flowing “with milk” (vv 18). Even the most partisan literalist would struggle to force a literal meaning upon these depictions. The reality is: most of the writings of the major and minor prophets are characterized with figurative portrayals and pictorial verbiage. There is no way that the mountains and hills in the Middle East will one day be acting like humans or dispensing drinks like a drinks machine.

The majesty and power of kingdoms are often identified in Scripture with the magnificent and splendor of mountains.

The splitting of the Mount of Olives so that God's people could escape to safety sounds similar to Christ saying faith can move mountains. The references to topographical changes could therefore be viewed in a figurative manner. This kind of language is common throughout the Old Testament. It seems to be talking about spiritual matters. In fact, we know that John the Baptist was responsible for bringing every mountain low and exalting every valley through his pivotal preparatory ministry.

Luke 3:4-5 records, speaking of that great forerunner of Christ – John the Baptist, “As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet (in Isaiah 40:3-5), saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth.”

This prophecy did not in any way insinuate that John was arriving with a great earth-remover in order to flatten “every mountain and hill” around Jerusalem, nor to fill in the natural valleys that surrounded the city. No. Like Luke, Zechariah was not looking for physical change in the geographical terrain of natural Israel. He was simply speaking in figurative hyperbole describing what God wanted to do in the hearts of the people. He was articulating the colossal impact the coming of Christ’s kingdom had upon the earth.

We see the same idea presented in Isaiah 41:14-15: “Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.”

Commentators see a connection between this and assignment of John the Baptist. They take this as denoting the successful spread of the Gospel by faithful Israel and it conquering of nations and kingdoms. Zechariah is seen challenging a mountain in Zechariah 4:7, declaring: “Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain.” The mountain here seems to symbolize a wicked resisting power or powers. The prophet predicts that they will be brought low.

Micah 1:3-5 said of Christ: “For, behold, the LORD cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth. And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place. For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob? is it not Samaria? and what are the high places of Judah? are they not Jerusalem?”

In Micah 1:3 we are told that God “is coming forth from His place” to “come down and tread on the high places of the earth.” This descriptive language is no different from the Lord standing on the Mount of Olives with the result that it will split. It was not uncommon for prophets to use figurative expressions about the Lord coming down, mountains trembling, being scattered, and hills bowing (Habakkuk 3:6, 10); mountains flowing down at his presence (Isaiah 64:1, 3); or mountains and hills singing and the trees clapping their hands” (Isaiah 55:12).

This passage is portraying the great global expanse of the Gospel. Jehovah God would no longer be limited to one small nation in the Middle East. Indeed “the LORD shall be king over all the earth.” When Christ came He ushered the great evangelization of the nations. Nations that were once hopelessly outside of Christ and outside of hope would now, in this Gospel age, experience God in a very personal and living way. He is now the Lord of the nations. The heathen have been embracing Him in their millions for years. Jew and Gentile are all one in Christ now. There is no longer any division between the two. There is one Lord and Savior of all the earth.

Jesus used similar language in Matthew 17:20-21: “If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.”

Mountains are shown here to be moved by simple faith. Obviously, they are not literal. This correlates with Isaiah 40:3-5, Micah 1:3-5 and Zechariah 14:4.

Ok. You limit your view to your personal understanding. I will continue to interpret both ways.