Who are the “elect”?

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Trekson

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Okay lets do this again

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

The subject is those who have died,so are you saying no one has died

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Clearly it says those who have died in Christ come back with Him,not because they were raptured but because they died

I'm really not understanding your logic

You can't take this as a stand alone verse. What else does the bible say on this issue. Look at vss 16-17 and 1 Co. 15:52. He will be bringing back the souls of the dead to claim their new incorruptible bodies.
 

n2thelight

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You can't take this as a stand alone verse. What else does the bible say on this issue. Look at vss 16-17 and 1 Co. 15:52. He will be bringing back the souls of the dead to claim their new incorruptible bodies.

I got that as well,the soul is who we are,the flesh will not rise.At death or His return,whichever comes first we will be changed ,It would do you well to study 1 Cor 15
 

Trekson

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I got that as well,the soul is who we are,the flesh will not rise.At death or His return,whichever comes first we will be changed ,It would do you well to study 1 Cor 15

It's not our souls that will be changed. It is the bodies of the dead that are resurrected and changed into perfect incorruptible bodies just like Christ's was and then the bodies will be joined again to the souls for eternity. As 1 Pet. 3:18-20 shows, while Christ's body lied in the grave, the Spirit took him to the spirits in prison and when that was done, he reunited w/ his body for the resurrection.
 

n2thelight

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@ Trekson

Now let's go to what you said

I Corinthians 15:13 "But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:"

In other words, you are saying; "if all of the dead are not risen, then Christ must not be risen also." This is the exact subject that Paul was addressing in I Thessalonians 4 where Paul is addressing the question, "Where are the dead?" The Thessalonian Christians were starting to lose their faith over the belief that when they died, their souls would remain in the ground. and Paul was saying that this line of thinking was as the heathen thought.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The subject again is "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are". If you are a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb alive. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believers]. When Christ ascended back to the Father on the fortieth day after His resurrection, all the souls went with him into heaven that had passed on. Some of those souls went to wait for that time of judgment, while others went to the glory of God. However there are no souls that remain with their decaying flesh body in the ground, none.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

Paul is addressing "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," as those who are still alive and living in their flesh bodies from then to the time when Jesus Comes back at the seventh and last trumpet. We will discuss this later in this chapter in I Corinthians 15: 50-55, however there is not going to be a time when any person living in their flesh body will separate from their soul prior to that seventh trumpet. This time of the coming of Jesus Christ is called "the gathering back", and it marks the end of this age of the flesh.

Now let's continue

The below is you
I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

It is important to understand the word "quickened", Remember in verse 22 Paul stated; "in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive." This Greek word for "quickened" is the same Greek word for the "coming alive". It means that all, sinners and saints are made alive through Christ. It doesn't mean that the soul is raised to eternal life, for the soul is not the subject here, but the question is what happens to the physical body?

It means to "revitalize" [# 2227 in Strong's] the soul, and become conscience and ready for judgment. This doesn't mean that all souls are saved, but that all souls are given life to continue as they were. If that soul was lost, it will still be lost, but the final death will not take place until after this age of the flesh is over, after the Millennium age, and the Great white throne judgment is finish. Then will be the time of the "second death" or the death of the lost souls. It means that the soul has put off the flesh body, and put on their spiritual body, but their soul is still condemned to death if it is not in right standing with God.


I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

Your spirit never leaves your soul, even at the death of your flesh body. Satan does not have any power over your spiritual body, but only your flesh body. Man and Satan can tare this flesh body to peaces and cause you to do all sorts of things, but no-one can damage your soul, not man, not Satan nor the angels. God is the only one that can destroy the soul and that comes at the end of the Millennium age, following judgment. However through deception Satan can cause you to sin against God, and thus be in trouble before the Almighty God. But that is why we have repentance in the name of Jesus to become right-standing before the Father again.

It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Always have a 2nd witness

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."

Again the flesh will not rise ,it was made to house our soul,whom we really are!!!


 

n2thelight

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Back on subject,everyone is not of the elect,difference being they(elect) don't have free will .They were called and justified from the age before.
 

Keraz

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The elect are every individual chosen by God and who have been born again into the salvation offered by Jesus.
Saying they are Israel, the Jews or the Church, are all misnomers as God's holy people, all faithful Christians, are from every tribe, race, nation and language. Rev 5:9-10, Rev 7:9, Isaiah 66:18b

But remember that Jacob was given the name of Israel by God, as he was an overcomer. That is what the word Israel literally means: an Overcomer for God. So we Christians are the Israelites of God, the victorious ones over the wiles of Satan and the temptations of this world. Colossians 1:11-12

Who is it that will be gathered at Jesus' Return? God's holy people, those who have endured until the end, Rev 13:9-10.

The 'Victorious' ones, as described in the Ephesus Church - Revelation 2:7

The Smyrna Church - Rev 2:10-11

The Pergamum Church - Rev 2:17

The Thyatira Church - Rev 2:26

The Sardis Church - Rev 3:5

The Philadelphia Church - Rev 3:12

The Laodicea Church - Rev 3:21 To anyone who is Victorious, I will grant a place beside Me on My Throne, as I Myself was Victorious and sat down with My Father on His Throne. You have ears; so hear what the Spirit says to all the Churches!

This truth totally refutes the rapture to heaven and all the preterist's wrong ideas. It's time for every Christian to 'gird their loins', in other words; be aware and mentally [and physically] prepared for what must come. To almost everyone alive , what the Lord is soon to do, will come as a severe shock, causing many Christians to lose their faith because what they expected to happen; did not.

We must stand firm in our faith and do what we are told to do: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Plainly; the time for sitting down and receiving our rewards, will happen after the Millennium. Revelation 21 & 22

Revelation 21:7 This is the victors heritage; I will be their God and they will be My children.
 

n2thelight

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It's not our souls that will be changed. It is the bodies of the dead that are resurrected and changed into perfect incorruptible bodies just like Christ's was and then the bodies will be joined again to the souls for eternity. As 1 Pet. 3:18-20 shows, while Christ's body lied in the grave, the Spirit took him to the spirits in prison and when that was done, he reunited w/ his body for the resurrection.

Christ was the exception,His body had to not show corruption as it was written

Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before, spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption."

Jesus flesh did not decay, but was transformed, and that is why the transfiguration took place that we read about in Matthew 17:1-9. Peter, James and John were taken by Jesus up on the mountain, and there they were given the opportunity to witness Jesus with Moses and Elias, as Jesus physical body was transfigured before them. "and His face did shine as the sunk and His raiment was white as the light." This allowed them to know that even as Enoch was transfigured, so was Christ.

The below the 2nd witness to the above

Psalms 16:10 "For Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; Neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption."

"Corruption" pertains to when the flesh body turns to ashes. So what this is saying is that Christ's body is one body that God would not allow that precious flesh even to turn to the dust of the earth that it was made of. It would not be allowed to happen. Christ did not let His soul rest in hell, because He had things to do; to preach to the lost, and to lead lost souls out of captivity. When Jesus was there He taught the truths that those souls had not heard in their flesh bodies.
 

Trekson

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The only difference between his perfected body and ours was his never decayed but when Lazarus was resurrected he retained his earthly body but all signs of decay were gone as well as those that came out of the graves when Jesus was resurrected. I think if a bunch of zombies were walking around it would put the kibosh on how great our resurrection would be. When the dead in Christ shall rise first they will reunite w/ their souls and both the living and the dead will have perfect, incorruptible bodies just like his.