Who founded your church?

[Behold]

(The church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!)

The church is the body of Christ that was founded on the Blood of Jesus, who is the head of the Church.
Peter is just one more believer, no more and no less, who wrote a very small part of the NT.
He is not a "pope" and he is not the head of the body.
Dont give him this title, as to do that, is to deny Christ his authority and position.

 

[Illuminator]

In all those cases, God did the healing, not the hanky or spit or water. Saying laying on hands causes healing is incorrect. God does the healing. The hanky is just a hanky. The oil is just oil. It doesn't have magical power, but God chose to heal those it touched. It's an important distinction, because otherwise people end up worshiping objects, like weeping statues and believing holy water is magical, instead of God. Same with baptism, it has no special power, it's merely pointing to God's power to save.

You build a straw man, then knock it down.
The sacrament of the Eucharist, for example, will not have a positive effect or convey grace if received by a person in mortal sin (see 1 Cor 11:27-30; CCC #1415), and priestly absolution is null and void without the necessary prerequisite of true repentance.

The death of Christ is the universal cause of man’s salvation: but a universal cause has to be applied to particular effects. Thus it was found necessary for certain remedies to be administered to men by way of bringing Christ’s death into proximate connection with them. Such remedies are the Sacraments of the Church. And these remedies had to be administered with certain visible signs: — first, because God provides for man, as for other beings, according to his condition; and it is the condition of man’s nature to be led through sensible things to things spiritual and intelligible: secondly, because instruments must be proportioned to the prime cause; and the prime and universal cause of man’s salvation is the Word Incarnate: it was convenient therefore that the remedies, through which that universal cause reaches men, should resemble the cause in this, that divine power works invisibly through visible signs.

Hereby is excluded the error of certain heretics, who wish all visible sacramental signs swept away; and no wonder, for they take all visible things to be of their own nature evil, and the work of an evil author. These visible sacramental signs are the instruments of a God Incarnate and Crucified.​

St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)
Are Relics & Sacraments Mere Magical Charms? | Dave Armstrong (patheos.com)

 

[Illuminator]

The Sacraments are neither purely natural signs . . . nor purely artificial or conventional signs, as according to their inner composition, they are appropriate for vividly depicting inward grace. They are not merely speculative or theoretical signs, but efficacious or practical signs, as they not only indicate the inner sanctification, but also effect it . . .

The Reformers, by reason of their doctrine of justification, see in the sacraments pledges of the Divine Promise of the forgiveness of sins by means of the awakening and strengthening of fiducial faith, which alone justifies. Thus, the sacraments are not means whereby grace is conferred, but means whereby faith and its consequences are stirred into action. . . . Thus the Sacraments have only a psychological and symbolic significance. The Council of Trent rejected this teaching as a heresy.

Psalm 51:1-2 – O God, blot out my transgressions, wash me thoroughly from my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin. This cleansing requires an inner change of heart. Many Protestants believe that we are so depraved that God only covers our sins up by declaring us righteous (imputing Christ’s righteousness to us). The Catholic (and Scriptural view), however, is that God is powerful enough to blot out our sins and remove them. The view that God just declares us righteous by “covering us up,” denigrates the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives, who continues the work of Christ through His work of justification and sanctification (infusing His grace into souls and changing the inner person).
Acts 3:19 – repent, that your sins may be “blotted” out. The word blotted comes from the Greek word “exalipho” which means an actual wiping away or removal, not a covering up.

Acts 22:16; 1 Cor. 6:11 – again, the phrase “wash away” is from the word “apolouo” which mean a literal removal or an infusion of cleansing, not an imputation or covering.

Rom. 4:3 – it was “credited” to him as righteousness. The word “credited” comes from the Greek word “elogisthe” which means a book entry. God records what there actually is; He does not make a phony entry on the books.

Rom. 5:17 – we do not receive Christ’s personal level of righteousness (which is impossible), but we are made righteous on His account by God’s mercy and the Lord’s work on the cross. The word “made” in Greek is “katestathesan” which refers to a real, actual, ontological change in the person’s soul.

• 1 Scripture
  • 1.1 I. Faith Justifies Initially, but Works Perfect and Complete Justification
  • 1.2 II. Works of Law versus Good Works
  • 1.3 III. Justification = Inner Change of Person (Infusion); Not Just a Declaration by God (Imputation)
  • 1.4 IV. Some Examples of Justification as Ongoing (not a one-time event)
  • 1.5 V. Jesus and Apostles Teach that Works are Necessary for Justification
  • We are justified by faith, that is not contended. But nowhere does Paul use the phrase "faith alone". That was a radical innovation.

 

[Taken]

Those are not really Gods in the sense that they are Literal, or real.

a "god" is a religious device that Man adores as an idol to worship.

this can be money.
it can be Elvis.
it can be "mother earth".


The idea is not to allow something to become more important to you then God, as then you've "Put that before".

God is a term God Himself established.
It exists.
God Himself teaches He Himself is Above ALL other gods.
Other "gods" do exist.
Agree "A" God, is whatever an individual upholds as their Highest Power, Authority OVER them personally.

Well known...multitudes of men have exalted, bowed to in worship and reverence...
Governments, kings, statues, moon, animals,
Etc. as being "their" own Highest power OVER them....that "thing" they bow to in worship, they exalt in reverence IS "their" god.

The Heavenly Unseen, Lord God Almighty... declared Himself Creator, Maker and The God Above All Things.

Men choose, for themselves to Accept the Lord God Almight's OWN declarations...or Not.

Historically we have Testimonies and observations what multitudes of men have Chosen, to Be their own Most High, revered, bowed to, worshipped, prayed to, god.

I have "One" Heavenly unseen Lord God Almighty...my choice.
And I have no "lesser" gods.

Glory to;
the unseen Heavenly Lord God Almighty,

Taken

 

[Josho]

 

[theefaith]

There are many denominations, TF. RCC is the first to break off from the original. And they split again to form the Orthodox denominations keeping the Babylonian goddess and godchild mystery religion. Then the Protestant Reformation formed thousands against the Babylonian inclusion.

If you do nothing else, only pray to the Father in the name of the Son. Not to Mary. She is not the real Mary, mother of Jesus. Especially the apparitions are just angels of light, but are really darkness to get God's people side-tracked.

please show me a denomination in the Bible?
Broke off from the original? What was the original then?
Are you denying scripture Matt 16:18 the gates shall NOT prevail against The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ!
The reformation is not in the Bible and that which God has ordained no man can put assunder, and the church is founded on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20 none of the so called reformers were apostles had no authority

 

[theefaith]

Right, as opposed to salvation by works.

works alone yes

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

virtues done thru faith in the grace of Christ thru we receive thru baptism and the sacraments the promises or sacred oaths of the father, sacred oath is a sacrament

 

[theefaith]

It depends on how we define grace. @theefaith

Jude 1:4

It is actually divine power to be holy, 2 Peter 1:2-4.

you mean we actually have to be holy or righteous?

 

[theefaith]

Says the Bible nowhere. Yes Jesus is the mediator, no, you don't enter through sacraments.
There's only one mediator. Only one person who is the gate to eternal life. Not through any good that we have done, but only through his sacrifice.

true but how do you find yourself in union with Christ and communion with God?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

 

[theefaith]

No, what is the name of the son?

You don't know?

Do you know anyone else's son's name?

what’s your point?

 

[theefaith]

The church is the body of Christ that was founded on the Blood of Jesus, who is the head of the Church.
Peter is just one more believer, no more and no less, who wrote a very small part of the NT.
He is not a "pope" and he is not the head of the body.
Dont give him this title, as to do that, is to deny Christ his authority and position.

Why when Christ Himself appointed Peter head of the church in His absence???

Fathers have care of their children, spiritual fathers care for our souls!

Pope, papa, father, yes spiritual father!

Isa 22 father


Peter head day of the church on earth!

Matt 10:2
First apostle Peter:

Matt 17:27
Jesus and Peter are one:
Jesus even works a miracle to make this point. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Peter commanded to confirm his breathren:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Matt 10:2
Peter is the prince of the apostles, head of the universal church on earth!

Jn 20:21-23
Peter and the apostles receive the Holy Spirit and the power to forgive sins:

Acts 1:15 1:17 1:26
Peter declares Judas office of apostle valid and vacant and chooses a successor:

Acts 2:14
Peter preaches the first sermon on Pentecost:

Acts 2:38
Peter requires baptism as the outward sign and initiation into the new covenant!

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 5 authority of the apostles verified by them being stricken dead by God verifying Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and the apostles have the light of the Holy Spirit!


1 Tim 1 Paul is Timothy’s spiritual father.
1 Jn 2:1 little children are adult Christians, John is their spiritual father.

Apostles have Care for our souls
(Acts 20:28 Jn 21:17 Heb 13:17)

 

[Truther]

Go back to post #1169, Einstein.
We've already had this argument on another thread - and you were soundly defeated . . .

“In the name of” the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit simply means “By the Authority of” the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

So, Jesus told His Apostles to Baptize by the Authority of the Triune God (Matt. 28:19).

And in YOUR favorite verse - Acts 2:38 – Peter says that the crowd must be Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. This is by the Authority of Jesus Christ as He told His Apostles back in Matt. 28:19.

I gave you PLENTY of linguistic scholarship on this in post #1169.
I suggest you read it and stop embarrassing yourself . . .

Okay, so the RCC teaches the name of the son is "son".

I get that...which is why instead of baptizing in the name of the son by obeying the son's cpmmand per Matt 28:19, you guys instead PARROT his command.

I can just imagine what it would be like to hire a Catholic and order him to do something, as he barks that order back instead of doing it.

Yikes!

 

[Renniks]

You build a straw man, then knock it down.
The sacrament of the Eucharist, for example, will not have a positive effect or convey grace if received by a person in mortal sin (see 1 Cor 11:27-30; CCC #1415), and priestly absolution is null and void without the necessary prerequisite of true repentance.

This is a good example of what I'm saying actually. It's the person's heart condition, not the wine and bread, that brings him closer or takes him further from to Christ while taking Communion. Seeing the act of Communion as giving us anything by itself is the danger. People who understand it as helping to save them will merely go through the motions, because they think the act is what is important.

 

[Truther]

You are saying that the church started at Pentecost, and your idea is that the Spirit being poured out is the proof.
So, as i told you, this was already accomplished on the 11 prior to it happening to those Jews during that JEWISH ONLY = feast.

Also, notice that Acts 2:38, is the message that John the Baptist preached to the House of Israel, before Jesus was even baptized or crucified.
So, That is not the Gospel of the Grace of God., but it is all that Peter knew at that time.
God changed his thinking in Acts 10 when he taught Peter that GENTILES would also be saved....
But in Acts 2, Peter had no idea about the "gospel of the Grace of God" as this came from Jesus through PAUL much later.

So, these things matter, as if you dont see the distinctions, you'll run around thinking that Acts 2:38, "repent and get dunked" is the same as "Justification by Faith" that Paul was taught by Christ as the actual Gospel, that he learned much later then Act 2.

Jesus told his powerless disciples in Acts 1 to go to Jerusalem to get power per Acts 2.

The "church" was not Spirit filled until Acts 2, nor were they baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins until Acts 2.

So, the powerless, unremitted "church" was not a church until they went through Acts 2:38.

Even Paul got that as he rebaptized some disciples and prayed them through the Holy Ghost in Acts 19.

Anyone that claims the church started pre-Pentecost or after is likely not born again per Acts' standards.

 

[Renniks]

true but how do you find yourself in union with Christ and communion with God?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

By prayer and confessing our sins to him, not to an earthly priest, but to our Savior alone. Then the Spirit " baptizes" us with himself.

 

[Truther]

what’s your point?

Matt 29:19 commands to baptize in the name of the son, but Christians don't know what the name of the son is, or they would say it.

So, they don't obey the command, but only PARROT it back to the commander.

Good thing they don't allow these folks to join the military, huh?

 

[Renniks]

Jesus and Peter are one:
Jesus even works a miracle to make this point. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Crazy wrong and blasphemy! This miracle has nothing to do with your crazy interpretation. This is what happens when people add to the Word with no regard for the actual event that is happening.

 

[theefaith]

Okay, so the RCC teaches the name of the son is "son".

I get that...which is why instead of baptizing in the name of the son by obeying the son's cpmmand per Matt 28:19, you guys instead PARROT his command.

I can just imagine what it would be like to hire a Catholic and order him to do something, as he barks that order back instead of doing it.

Yikes!

Don’t agree
In order for a sacrament to be valid it must have
Correct intent: to do what the church of Jesus has always done
Correct matter: in baptism it is plain water
And the correct form: the words of the sacrament
Baptism it MUST be I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit!

or it is not valid

 

[theefaith]

By prayer and confessing our sins to him, not to an earthly priest, but to our Savior alone. Then the Spirit " baptizes" us with himself.

then explain Jn 20:21-23???

no the church administrators the sacraments by the authority of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit

 

[theefaith]

Crazy wrong and blasphemy! This miracle has nothing to do with your crazy interpretation. This is what happens when people add to the Word with no regard for the actual event that is happening.

then pray tell me why Peter is added???