Who founded your church?

[theefaith]

Bruno was one of many put to death by the church

Giordano Bruno - Wikipedia

burned by the state

Starting in 1593, Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges of denial of several core Catholic doctrines, including eternal damnation, the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, the virginity of Mary, and transubstantiation. Bruno's pantheism was not taken lightly by the church,[4] nor was his teaching of the transmigration of the souland reincarnation. The Inquisition found him guilty, and he was burned at the stake in Rome's Campo de' Fiori in 1600.

 

[theefaith]

Still did not answer my question. If only the apostles were authorized to spread the gospel, then all churches are acting without authority. Not to mention all Christians who spread the good news themselves.

He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

Is this only for those 11 men?

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Jn 10:16 one fold

Sects and heretics don’t count

 

[Renniks]

the state executed heretics not the church

A distinction that makes no difference.
In 380 AD under the Christian Emperor Theodosius I laid down the rule that only the Catholic Christians could define orthodoxy within the confines of the Roman Empire. It was under his reign that the first heretic was put to death.

• Pope Innocent III (1199) was the first to declare heresy to be high treason against God, having already called for the execution of those who persisted in their heresies after being excommunicated.
  
  
• In 1229 Pope Gregory IX declared that it is the duty of every Catholic to persecute heretics.
  

In the middle of the fifth century Pope Leo the Great commended the Emperor for torturing and executing heretics on behalf of the Church.
Waldo of Lyon provided the next major target. They gave their money to the poor and preached the Christian gospel. Waldo attracted the hatred of the clergy when he commissioned a translation of the bible into occitan, the language of what is now southern France. The heresies of the Waldensians were numerous. Having read the bible for themselves they denied the temporal authority of priests and objected to papal corruption. They rejected numerous accretions, including the Mass, prayers for the dead, indulgences, confessions, penances, church music, the reciting of prayers in Latin, the adoration of saints, the adoration of the sacrament, killing, and the swearing of oaths. They also allowed women to preach. They were excommunicated as heretics in 1184 at the Council of Verona, and persecuted with zeal for centuries. 150 were burned at Grenoble in a single day in 1393. Survivors fled to remote valleys in the Alps. Pope Innocent VIII organised a crusade against them in an unsuccessful attempt to extirpate them. They were still being persecuted centuries later. In Piedmont in the middle of the seventeenth century further attempts were made to extirpate them. Anyone in Villaro who declined to go to a Roman Catholic mass was liable to be crucified upside down, but there was some variation in the manner of killing in other towns. Some were maimed and left to die of starvation, some had strips of flesh cut off their bodies until they bled to death, some were stoned, some impaled alive upon stakes or hooks. Some were dragged along the ground until there flesh was scraped away. One at least was literally minced. Daniel Rambaut had his toes and fingers cut off in sections: one joint being amputated each day in an attempt to make him recant and accept the Roman faith. Some had their mouths stuffed with gun-powder which was then ignited. Paolo Garnier of Roras was castrated, then skinned alive. Children were killed in various ways before the eyes of their parents. Those few who escaped to the mountains were mostly killed by exposure, starvation or disease .
Saying the church didn't execute people is like saying the guy who hires a Hitman isn't liable for the death of his victim.

 

[Renniks]

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Jn 10:16 one fold

Sects and heretics don’t count

So let the state kill em all, right? It worked before. Anything to keep the common Man from having true biblical knowledge.

 

[CharismaticLady]

no he did not take away the sin nature
If you walk according to the spirit
Free will you must choose to do
so and if you love me you will keep my commandments but we must choose it’s not automatic God did not make robots but children who choose to love Him

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Again, we are NOT in the carnal sin nature if the Spirit of God indwells us. A true Christian doesn't go in and out of the Spirit as some teach. You can grow in the fruit of the Spirit and never stumble. 2 Peter 1:2-11.

1 John 1:8 is to Christians, but not ABOUT a Christian. Look at 1 John 1:6. Do you think someone is a Christian who walks in darkness? Do they have God inside them, when verse 5 says God is light? A Christian is verse 7. He who walks in the LIGHT. Your verse 8 is in context with verse 9 - a before and after. Verses 5 through 10 are written as contrasts from Light to Darkness back and forth. Contrasts is one of the writing styles of the Jews. Chapter three is written in the same style contrasting passages, not verses and this chapter happened to break down into.

5 - God is LIGHT and in Him is no darkness at all
6 - if you walk in DARKNESS - do not practice the truth
7 - if you walk in the LIGHT
8 - say that we have no sin - the Truth is not in us. (Self-righteousness, like Pharisees) (Spirit of Truth is missing)
9 - Repent - cleanse of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Born again of God. 1 John 3:9
10 - Claim to have never sinned - born sinless. Delusional. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

 

[Renniks]

Wycliffe or his followers were called Lollards. The Archbishop of Canterbury, William Courtney, and his bishops filled in the omission by forging an Act of Parliament to deal with heresy. But Parliament spotted the imposture and the House of Commons petitioned the King in 1383 to annul this bogus statute "never assented to nor granted by the Commons" . Genuine mild statutes were passed three years later, but the Church was still not happy. Prelates insisted on the death penalty, and a series of statutes, called de haeretico comburendo, were passed in 1401, under King Henry IV, introducing the death penalty for heresy. They failed to define the offence, so heresy would continue to be whatever the Church said it was. Once convicted, the heretic was handed over to the sheriff, who had no option but to execute the Church's judgement. Unrepentant heretics were to be publicly burned to death, as they were on the continent. The statutes came too late to catch John Wycliffe himself, but they caught many of his followers. Lollards continued to be condemned to the stake up until the 1530s. Others were caught too. Around 1520 the diocese of Lincoln alone was convicting over 100 people a year for the crime of "not thinking catholickly" .

Yeah I'm not too keen on joining a church that tries to deny it's bloody history for some reason.

 

[Marymog]

The doctrine did not come around for 400 years later

And Protestant doctrine "did not come around" until 1500 years until after the death of Christ.....sooooo your point is mute!!

 

[Marymog]

When you read that Jesus "breathed on the 11, and told them to Receive the Holy Spirit"..........you for some reason can't see that this is the same as the upper room experience.
I wonder why you are not able to realize this yet.
You seem to be stuck in Acts 2.

And this "baptized for that remission"......that is not the Gospel that we are to teach and preach.
That is Peter, repeating John the Baptist's "repent and be baptized".
See, Peter was repeating John The Baptist's message to the House of Israel, at that Feast of Pentecost, because Paul was not yet there, and it was Paul who gave us the Gospel of the Grace of God that is "faith is counted as Righteousness".

Peter didn't have this revelation yet, in Acts 2, and that is why he is repeating John the Baptist's message.

However, in Acts 10, .. Peter began to be given the Revelation of the Gospel of the Grace of God.
And in Acts 15, when he met Paul, he was TAUGHT, what we teach now, as "the Gospel of the Grace of God".

I find it fascinating that you Protestants argue with each other. Each thinking that you are right and the other is wrong even though you all agree that The Church is always wrong.

Mary

 

[CharismaticLady]

Thank you Lady,

I assumed that’s what you were referring to.....The Council of Jerusalem is what Acts 15 is commonly called.

You agree with The Church that there was a leader of The Church, what we now call The Pope, after Christ was crucified. You just disagree with the 2,000 year teaching that Peter was the leader or the rock that The Church was built upon after His crucifixion. You believe James was the leader and the final authority (judge) for The Church. I listed MULTIPLE passages from Scripture showing otherwise. You have one passage to support your theory.

When did the authority of that ‘judgeship’ end? When the last Apostle died? When James died?

One question for you: At the Council of Jerusalem who is the one who made the authoritative statement We believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they [the Gentiles] will”.

I can give you quotes up to the 3rd century from early Church leaders saying Peter was the leader of The Church. Can you give me those quotes from the early Church about James?

Mary

Actually the RCC killed the last desposyni, the last true leader, but we do have the Bible and the Church is established world-wide. We have always had the Holy Spirit since the Day of Pentecost, and Jesus said, He would never forsake us or leave us. Jesus is our leader.

The Pope actually wanted Mary to be co-Mediatrix with Jesus. That is heresy. I hope you know that and won't let him lead you anylonger.

 

[Marymog]

When the church was burning hundreds of thousands alive, was that Jesus telling them to do that?

LOL...hundreds of thousands Jaybird??? Not even historians agree with your number. Can you link a reliable website that backs up your claim??? What man do you follow that gave you that number????

Also, are you only talking about The Church or are you talking about the Protestants that burned people alive??? Sadly, they both did it. But I get it.....you only want to point out the mistakes of The Church and not the Protestant sects that broke off from The Church.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Actually the RCC killed the last desposyni, the last true leader, but we do have the Bible and the Church is established world-wide. We have always had the Holy Spirit since the Day of Pentecost, and Jesus said, He would never forsake us or leave us. Jesus is our leader.

The Pope actually wanted Mary to be co-Mediatrix with Jesus. That is heresy. I hope you know that and won't let him lead you anylonger.

Sooooooooo Lady are you going to at least TRY and answer my questions or is your entire goal to attack The Church??? The following questions I already asked you are based on YOUR THEORY (I assume a theory that was taught to you by other men) sooooo I would appreciate if you would back up YOUR THEORY by answering the questions:

When did the authority of that ‘judgeship’ end? When the last Apostle died? When James died? Can you give me those quotes from the early Church about James?

Patient Mary

PS.....if you have no answer please let me know so we can move on!!!

 

[Marymog]

So, then I don't have authority to spread the gospel?

BINGO.....You win!!!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I find it fascinating that you Protestants argue with each other. Each thinking that you are right and the other is wrong even though you all agree that The Church is always wrong.

Mary

Actually only the first century had it right.

The Roman Church went completely off the rails when they inserted pagan rituals into the church to help pagans transition into a new religion. Venus and Cupid became Mary and Jesus.

Protestants misinterpreted the meaning of grace and the gospel.

Chuck all denominations (RCC and Orthodox broke away from the first century Church and then each other, and are both denominations - not the original Church - sorry...)

Go back to the Bible and love one another.

 

[Marymog]

Actually the RCC killed the last desposyni.

OK...OK...Hold on....The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) killed the last desposyni????

What evidence have you of this Lady??? What man taught you that??? I have NEVER heard that accusation before and I LOVE to learn new things....P L E A S E enlighten me and tell me what man taught you that!!!!

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Actually only the first century had it right.

The Roman Church went completely off the rails when they inserted pagan rituals into the church to help pagans transition into a new religion. Venus and Cupid became Mary and Jesus.

Protestants misinterpreted the meaning of grace and the gospel.

Chuck all denominations (RCC and Orthodox broke away from the first century Church and then each other, and are both denominations - not the original Church - sorry...)

Go back to the Bible and love one another.

Hi Lady,

What pagan rituals were inserted into The Church that you disagree with??? Just to let you know I agree with you that pagan rituals were inserted into a new religion HOWEVER I would like to discuss those with you so that you man learn your Christian History!!!


Soooooo lets go with your theory that "only the first century had it right"!!!

In the 1st century they taught that the person baptizing and the person being baptized should fast before baptism!!! Does your church adhere to that???

The first century church taught that the baptizer can "pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit". Does your church adhere to that teaching????

If the 'Protestants misinterpreted the meaning of grace and the gospel' then that must mean you agree with The Church on the meaning of grace and gospel????

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

(RCC and Orthodox broke away from the first century Church and then each other, and are both denominations - not the original Church - sorry...).

Complete and utter lie....Please back up your accusation with facts or stop lying!!!

Mary

 

[Renniks]

BINGO.....You win!!!

Jesus is my authority. Such a sad thing that you deny his command to us. The church you so love kept the truth from the people and allowed them to die without ever hearing the gospel.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus is my authority. Such a sad thing that you deny his command to us. The church you so love kept the truth from the people and allowed them to die without ever hearing the gospel.

Thanks Renniks......for 2,000 years men have been saying 'Jesus is my authority" and now we have hundreds of sects....one of which you follow...and multiple interpretations of the exact same passage....How sad!!! I don't know what you mean by keeping the truth from the people and allowing them to die without ever hearing the gospel.....another bizarre Protesant accusation I suspect...How sad for you that you follow men of the Protestant revelution instead of men of The Church. My prayers are with you. (maybe your self taught...IDK)

Keep attacking The Church...I really don't care......You have failed to articulate your beliefs and back up what you say with scripture Very sad.....I appreciate your opinions and thank you for your time!!!!

 

[theefaith]

A distinction that makes no difference.
In 380 AD under the Christian Emperor Theodosius I laid down the rule that only the Catholic Christians could define orthodoxy within the confines of the Roman Empire. It was under his reign that the first heretic was put to death.

• Pope Innocent III (1199) was the first to declare heresy to be high treason against God, having already called for the execution of those who persisted in their heresies after being excommunicated.
  
  
• In 1229 Pope Gregory IX declared that it is the duty of every Catholic to persecute heretics.

In the middle of the fifth century Pope Leo the Great commended the Emperor for torturing and executing heretics on behalf of the Church.
Waldo of Lyon provided the next major target. They gave their money to the poor and preached the Christian gospel. Waldo attracted the hatred of the clergy when he commissioned a translation of the bible into occitan, the language of what is now southern France. The heresies of the Waldensians were numerous. Having read the bible for themselves they denied the temporal authority of priests and objected to papal corruption. They rejected numerous accretions, including the Mass, prayers for the dead, indulgences, confessions, penances, church music, the reciting of prayers in Latin, the adoration of saints, the adoration of the sacrament, killing, and the swearing of oaths. They also allowed women to preach. They were excommunicated as heretics in 1184 at the Council of Verona, and persecuted with zeal for centuries. 150 were burned at Grenoble in a single day in 1393. Survivors fled to remote valleys in the Alps. Pope Innocent VIII organised a crusade against them in an unsuccessful attempt to extirpate them. They were still being persecuted centuries later. In Piedmont in the middle of the seventeenth century further attempts were made to extirpate them. Anyone in Villaro who declined to go to a Roman Catholic mass was liable to be crucified upside down, but there was some variation in the manner of killing in other towns. Some were maimed and left to die of starvation, some had strips of flesh cut off their bodies until they bled to death, some were stoned, some impaled alive upon stakes or hooks. Some were dragged along the ground until there flesh was scraped away. One at least was literally minced. Daniel Rambaut had his toes and fingers cut off in sections: one joint being amputated each day in an attempt to make him recant and accept the Roman faith. Some had their mouths stuffed with gun-powder which was then ignited. Paolo Garnier of Roras was castrated, then skinned alive. Children were killed in various ways before the eyes of their parents. Those few who escaped to the mountains were mostly killed by exposure, starvation or disease .
Saying the church didn't execute people is like saying the guy who hires a Hitman isn't liable for the death of his victim.

see it is a serious matter

 

[theefaith]

So let the state kill em all, right? It worked before. Anything to keep the common Man from having true biblical knowledge.

what biblical knowledge?
All I need to be a fundamentalist Protestant is a Bible in my own language?
Why then am I not Protestant?
Bible says the church is the pillar and ground of truth