Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[CrowCross]

It's only fearful for those who remain in darkness and unbelief! Those who have been born again no longer fear death, because when we are absent from our natural body of flesh we are spiritual body with Christ in heaven.

Cool. I agree.

For some reason you want to go through the tribulation....do you know in the beginning of the trib 25% of the worlds population dies? Then late 1/3 of the people left followed by 1/3 then 1/3?

But, I agree...if your a christian during the tribulation and are killed you go to heaven. You seem to be looking forward to this time of wrath.

 

[IndianaRob]

What do you think my position is??

I believe you said born again and saved are the same thing. I could be wrong. I’m working and chatting at the same time lol.

 

[CrowCross]

I believe you said born again and saved are the same thing. I could be wrong. I’m working and chatting at the same time lol.

I said those who are born again ARE saved.

Being born from above is just part of the supernatural process. In the same instant the process also involves washing away your sins by the blood of Christ.

Some may say I am a born again believer washed by the blood of Christ.

 

[IndianaRob]

I said those who are born again ARE saved.

Being born from above is just part of the supernatural process. In the same instant the process also involves washing away your sins by the blood of Christ.

Some may say I am a born again believer washed by the blood of Christ.

I agree with those that are born again are saved but what I’m saying is that those who are saved may or may not be born again. It’s up to the believer to take that next step which is putting 100% faith in the Bible as written.

 

[CrowCross]

I agree with those that are born again are saved but what I’m saying is that those who are saved may or may not be born again. It’s up to the believer to take that next step which is putting 100% faith in the Bible as written.

I see where you're coming from...but I also see it needs a slight adjustment. Eph 2 tells us grace and faith are a gift from God. It's not something of ourselves.

Salvation isn't based upon you being born from above then, then, then, putting 100% faith in the Bible as written.

BTW, how can someone who is saved not be born again? How does that work?

 

[IndianaRob]

I see where you're coming from...but I also see it needs a slight adjustment. Eph 2 tells us grace and faith are a gift from God. It's not something of ourselves.

Salvation isn't based upon you being born from above then, then, then, putting 100% faith in the Bible as written.

BTW, how can someone who is saved not be born again? How does that work?

How to be saved:
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

How to be born again:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If a believer does not go the next step and immerse themselves in the word of God then they won’t be born again.

I spent the first 15 years of my Christian walk saved but not born again.

 

[rwb]

It’s the scripture. You added the capital W to word of God to make it say something that it doesn’t.

I always capitalize the Word of God in the same way I capitalize Christ. Why? Because Christ is God who is the Word, the Word that became flesh and dwelt among man. We preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ preaching from the written Word. When we believe in the Word, we believe in Christ who gives us power to become sons of God. Being born again of His Spirit we both know and enter the Kingdom of God in Heaven through the power of the Word and Spirit. That's why Christ says to know and enter the Kingdom of God man "must be born again."

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Ro 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the [Gospel of Christ] word of God.

 

[rwb]

Doesn't born again mean "born from above"?

This is part of the salvation process....when it happens you become saved.

So I don't quite understand your .....WHATTTT???

Sorry! I misunderstood what you said, I thought even though saying this you agreed with IndianaRob who is saying being born again is NOT being eternally saved.

 

[rwb]

How to be saved:
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

How to be born again:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If a believer does not go the next step and immerse themselves in the word of God then they won’t be born again.

I spent the first 15 years of my Christian walk saved but not born again.

If you were saved 15 years ago it's because you had been born again, or as CrowCross puts it "born from above". Otherwise, you were not eternally saved.

 

[rwb]

Cool. I agree.

For some reason you want to go through the tribulation....do you know in the beginning of the trib 25% of the worlds population dies? Then late 1/3 of the people left followed by 1/3 then 1/3?

But, I agree...if your a christian during the tribulation and are killed you go to heaven. You seem to be looking forward to this time of wrath.

I don't want or desire to go through tribulation! However, I must acknowledge the teaching of Christ when He tells us that "great tribulation" is the destiny for His disciples as we faithfully proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ. I don't worry about the wrath of God that shall come upon all the earth. Why? Because I believe His promise that He has saved me from the wrath of God that shall come.

 

[rwb]

I agree with those that are born again are saved but what I’m saying is that those who are saved may or may not be born again. It’s up to the believer to take that next step which is putting 100% faith in the Bible as written.

This is very true! Many who profess to having been born again do not possess faith that eternally saves and therefore are not eternally saved! I believe they are those who are among the body of Christ (church) in this age, who shall fall away from faith, never having known faith of Christ that alone eternally saves us.

 

[rwb]

I see where you're coming from...but I also see it needs a slight adjustment. Eph 2 tells us grace and faith are a gift from God. It's not something of ourselves.

Salvation isn't based upon you being born from above then, then, then, putting 100% faith in the Bible as written.

BTW, how can someone who is saved not be born again? How does that work?

Eternal salvation is indeed based upon being born again from above! There will be many souls standing before God at the judgment believing they are eternally saved, but they will hear Christ say to them, "Depart from Me, I do not know you." Why? Because the faith they thought would eternally save them depended upon their own deeds, and believing by their good works they would inherit eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

 

[ewq1938]

I think the city is symbolic of the people.

Then how do people travel to enter into themselves?

Revelation is given in symbolic language, and it interprets its own symbols constantly — the seven stars are the angels of the churches, the waters are peoples and multitudes, the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

So when the angel says "come, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife," and then shows John a city, that's the same pattern. The city is the picture. The bride is the reality.

He also shows people entering that city in the same passage. That is how he shows us the bride. You assumed it would be the first thing shown rather than showing the bride entering the thing described first. There are too many things in the passage that show the city as literal, and people who come to it to enter into it. If one wants to interpret the city as symbolic, the valid choice cannot be saved people since they are in the passage as not the city.

It's like saying, I will shew you the heroes of Star Wars, and we see the Millennial Falcon in view, then it zooms into where Luke and Lea and the others are and assuming the hero is somehow the Millennial Falcon. It plays a part and is very related to the heroes but not what the speaker is talking about.

 

[David in NJ]

Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

ABSOLUTELY no one!!!

JESUS Said HE comes Back AFTER the Tribulation = Matthew 24:29-31

Have you ever considered the danger of adding your words upon God's???

Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[David in NJ]

First the dead in Christ then the alive ones
1 Thess 4:
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

CORRECT

The ones LEFT BEHIND then go into the 7 year tribulation

Scripture ???

 

[ewq1938]

Being saved is the same thing as being born again, same with spiritual quickened, a new man, born from above etc etc.

 

[David in NJ]

There are some who argue you will miss the pre-trib rapture because you don't believe it and are not looking for it.

lol

Just as they believe the error of pre-trib rapture..........more error will follow

 

[IndianaRob]

I always capitalize the Word of God in the same way I capitalize Christ. Why? Because Christ is God who is the Word, the Word that became flesh and dwelt among man. We preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ preaching from the written Word. When we believe in the Word, we believe in Christ who gives us power to become sons of God. Being born again of His Spirit we both know and enter the Kingdom of God in Heaven through the power of the Word and Spirit. That's why Christ says to know and enter the Kingdom of God man "must be born again."

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Ro 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the [Gospel of Christ] word of God.

Let’s me ask you directly. Are we born again by Jesus or the scriptures? In other words is the word of God in this verse Jesus or the scriptures?

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[IndianaRob]

If you were saved 15 years ago it's because you had been born again, or as CrowCross puts it "born from above". Otherwise, you were not eternally saved.

Can you show me in the Bible where it says you are not saved if your not born again?

 

[IndianaRob]

This is very true! Many who profess to having been born again do not possess faith that eternally saves and therefore are not eternally saved! I believe they are those who are among the body of Christ (church) in this age, who shall fall away from faith, never having known faith of Christ that alone eternally saves us.

If a person is saved they are eternally saved.