Who Is Matt 28:19 - 20 Written To ??

[dan p]

Hi nto all and the so-called great commission is not in effect today at all .

In verse 16 most teachers and Pastors FAIL to tell their Assemblies that th e CONTEXT , itis Israel that was given this command and not Gentiles ?

Where is there Gentiles in this Context ??

When I finish this OP , but dan , ETHNOS means Gentiles , and you will be wrong !!


This is what is never told to all !!

#1 , The CONTEXT is Israel and its Disciples in verse 16 .

#2 , What is NEVER TOLD IS , what are they to teach ??

#3 , The Greek word for teach in verse 19 , MATHETEVO , which means to Disciple , Instruct , Enrol as a Scholar , and teach .

#4 , Here is and easy one , What were the Disciples taught and what did they Teach ? Why is was the Law of Moses , for such .

#5 , The Greek word ETHNOS can be translated by the following English words ;

a) Heathen
B) Gentiles
c) Nation
d) Nation of israel

#6 , In Matt 10 : 5 " Go not into the way of the Gentiles/ETHNOS , or neither the Samaritians enter ye not .

#7 , We see in Acts 10:22 , " and of good report among all the NATION / ETHNOS / of the Jews and here Nation , does not mean Gentile , but is talking about the Nation of the Jews .

#8 , Here is one on many , in Acts 11: 48 , " that the Romans shall come and take AWAY BOTH our place and NATION/ETHNOS and we see that ETHNOS does not always mean Gentile .

The Near View was that the disciples WERE to teach the the Jews that Law and to Baptize Jews ONLY , for that is why Baptism was given to and NOT to Gentiles for John 1:31 says , but that He should be made MANIFEST to Israel , therefore am I come BAPTIZING with WATER .

Here is the FAR VIEW , and the Jews will come to their MESSIAH during the Great Tribulation for that is the PURGING of israel and Matt 28:19 , 20 has been set aside until the for over 1900 years and will not deal with Israel , until the Departure/Rapture of the Body of Christ , and until " the fulness of the Gentiles come in ." Rom 11:25 .

dan p

 

[TexUs]

I don't think Verse 16 (location) proves in any way who he was addressing.

"Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. [font="Verdana][size="2"]... [/size][/font]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[font="Georgia][size="3"] [/size][/font]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”


I think simply from this you can easily see this was addressed to the eleven only.

If you want to be nit picky about this you can also argue his command was to make disciples by baptizing them. How many "Great Commission" folks baptize the people they are reaching? Not all of them. And yet if you take this command and apply it to yourself, it's part of the command. So best case, most people that are ministering are breaking the command anyway.

The fact is that the GC was only to the eleven to go and lay the foundation of the Church. That's been done.

Now- people should still share the gospel where they may, as they live their lives, and live for Christ: that's all throughout Paul's letters. But the command to "GO"- was only to the disciples.

Simple other things (when talking to soldiers, etc), he didn't tell them to quit what they do. No, Jesus always told them to "follow" him in the sense to sin no more, to live as he lived, to love. Again the only people he commanded to "GO" was his disciples- for the purpose of building his church (Which was also what the forgiveness of sins, lay on to receive the Spirit, etc... the special powers the disciples got)... It was all for laying the foundation of his church.

 

[bud02]

I don't think Verse 16 (location) proves in any way who he was addressing.

[font="Georgia]"Now [u][b]the eleven disciples[/b][/u] went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. [/font][font="Verdana][size="2"]... [/size][/font][font="Georgia]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[/font][font="Georgia] [/font][font="Georgia]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”[/font]
[font="Georgia]
[/font]
I think simply from this you can easily see this was addressed to the eleven only.

If you want to be nit picky about this you can also argue his command was to make disciples by baptizing them. How many "Great Commission" folks baptize the people they are reaching? Not all of them. And yet if you take this command and apply it to yourself, it's part of the command. So best case, most people that are ministering are breaking the command anyway.

The fact is that the GC was only to the eleven to go and lay the foundation of the Church. That's been done.

Now- people should still share the gospel where they may, as they live their lives, and live for Christ: that's all throughout Paul's letters. But the command to "GO"- was only to the disciples.

Simple other things (when talking to soldiers, etc), he didn't tell them to quit what they do. No, Jesus always told them to "follow" him in the sense to sin no more, to live as he lived, to love. Again the only people he commanded to "GO" was his disciples- for the purpose of building his church (Which was also what the forgiveness of sins, lay on to receive the Spirit, etc... the special powers the disciples got)... It was all for laying the foundation of his church.

Acts 9:15
1 Cor 3
[sup]8[/sup] Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
[sup]9[/sup] For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. [sup]10[/sup] According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. [sup]11[/sup] For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [sup]12[/sup] Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [sup]13[/sup] each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [sup]14[/sup] If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [sup]15[/sup] If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
[sup]16[/sup] Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? [sup]17[/sup] If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

 

[TexUs]

According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Are you suggesting only Christ can lay a foundation? If so, the following logical issues arise from your text:


1) "I have laid" in the first verse... who is I? Paul. Should red flag you.
2) The second verse is describing the foundation, not who lays it. Not support of any sort against it.




I could explain this farther or just let the Bible do it. Ephesians 2:
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

 

[bud02]

Are you suggesting only Christ can lay a foundation? If so, the following logical issues arise from your text:

1) "I have laid" in the first verse... who is I? Paul. Should red flag you.
2) The second verse is describing the foundation, not who lays it. Not support of any sort against it.


I could explain this farther or just let the Bible do it. Ephesians 2:
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Why is it that people always presume the worst? You presume I don't know what I speak of, or quote the bible out of context?

Is this clear enough for you? Rev 21:14
Rev 21:12

As for the "corner stone" the proper word is chief corner stone. A chief corner stone is the cap, like a pyramid. Drawing all four corners together.
Christ is not the simple corner stone of a building.

 

[TexUs]

Why is it that people always presume the worst? You presume I don't know what I speak of, or quote the bible out of context?

Is this clear enough for you? Rev 21:14
Rev 21:12

Ahhh yes the old "don't address the posted scripture, ignore it and post more of what supports mine" routine.
Since you ignore mine, I can at least respond to yours.

Are you really comparing the present church with the New Heaven???????? Really??? How Heaven looks in the future, after Christ vanquishes all sin, is how the church today looks????? Really?????????? You can't be serious.

And you're really comparing a symbolic foundation of the church with that of the New Jerusalem???? Really??? You can't be serious.

That said. Ask yourself these questions about the New Jerusalem described.
1) Do you really think the New Jerusalem will go into the exosphere?
2) Do you really think it'll be 1500 miles wide?

Or (And this makes more sense) do you suppose all of these mentions of 12 (Which is what the measurements are built on as well) refer to the 12 tribes of Israel which include the foundation? Thus, being symbolic? I've got no doubt the New Jerusalem is literal however these measurements just shout symbolism.

As for the "corner stone" the proper word is chief corner stone. A chief corner stone is the cap, like a pyramid. Drawing all four corners together.
Christ is not the simple corner stone of a building.

I don't disagree, I think you understood me.
I don't believe the apostles are the foundation. I said they laid it.

I can lay a foundation for a house, but that doesn't make me the concrete itself.

The apostles laid the concrete of Christ, basically. Based on his commands. It was still entirely Christ but he used the Apostles to do it.

 

[bud02]

Ahhh yes the old "don't address the posted scripture, ignore it and post more of what supports mine" routine.
Since you ignore mine, I can at least respond to yours.

Are you really comparing the present church with the New Heaven???????? Really??? How Heaven looks in the future, after Christ vanquishes all sin, is how the church today looks????? Really?????????? You can't be serious.

And you're really comparing a symbolic foundation of the church with that of the New Jerusalem???? Really??? You can't be serious.

That said. Ask yourself these questions about the New Jerusalem described.
1) Do you really think the New Jerusalem will go into the exosphere?
2) Do you really think it'll be 1500 miles wide?

Or (And this makes more sense) do you suppose all of these mentions of 12 (Which is what the measurements are built on as well) refer to the 12 tribes of Israel which include the foundation? Thus, being symbolic? I've got no doubt the New Jerusalem is literal however these measurements just shout symbolism.



I don't disagree, I think you understood me.
I don't believe the apostles are the foundation. I said they laid it.

I can lay a foundation for a house, but that doesn't make me the concrete itself.

The apostles laid the concrete of Christ, basically. Based on his commands. It was still entirely Christ but he used the Apostles to do it.

You can take up your case with the Lord and His choice of names "witnesses" on the New Jerusalem's foundation.

John 5
[sup]31[/sup] “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. [sup]32[/sup] There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. [sup]33[/sup] You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. [sup]34[/sup] Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. [sup]35[/sup] He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. [sup]36[/sup] But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. [sup]37[/sup] And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. [sup]38[/sup] But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. [sup]39[/sup] You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. [sup]40[/sup] But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
[sup]41[/sup] “I do not receive honor from men. [sup]42[/sup] But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. [sup]43[/sup] I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. [sup]44[/sup] How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? [sup]45[/sup] Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. [sup]46[/sup] For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. [sup]47[/sup] But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

 

[tomwebster]

Ahhh yes the old "don't address the posted scripture, ignore it and post more of what supports mine" routine.
...
I can lay a foundation for a house, but that doesn't make me the concrete itself.
...

Tell that to Jimmy Hoffa. :)

 

[whirlwind]

Tell that to Jimmy Hoffa. :)

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm sure Jimmy wouldn't think that funny but...it was. :)


.

 

[TexUs]

You can take up your case with the Lord and His choice of names "witnesses" on the New Jerusalem's foundation.

I think you're doing a mighty fine job of ignoring Ephesians.

 

[bud02]

I think you're doing a mighty fine job of ignoring Ephesians.

ESV

Ephesians 2
[sup]19[/sup] Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [sup]20[/sup] having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the 204 chief cornerstone, [sup]21[/sup] in whom the whole building, being fitted together, [The top chief corner stone.] grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [sup]22[/sup] in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

204. akrogoniaios ak-rog-o-nee-ah'-yos from 206 and 1137; belonging to the extreme corner:--chief corner.

NKJV
Psalm 118:22[sup]22[/sup] The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief 7218 cornerstone 6438.
[sup]23[/sup] This was the LORD’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes.
[sup]24[/sup] This is the day the LORD has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it.

6438 Hebrew bulwark, chief, corner, stay, tower
Feminine of pen; an angle; by implication, a pinnacle; figuratively, a chieftain -- bulwark, chief, corner, stay, tower.

7218 ro'sh roshe from an unused root apparently meaning to shake; the head (as most easily shaken), whether literal or figurative (in many applications, of place, time, rank, itc.):--band, beginning, captain, chapiter, chief(-est place, man, things), company, end, X every (man), excellent, first, forefront, ((be-))head, height, (on) high(-est part, (priest)), X lead, X poor, principal, ruler, sum, top.

The top of a pyramid, chief corner stone Isa 19:19-20

 

[TexUs]

You supposedly disagree with my assertion that the Apostles were chosen to build the foundation of Christ's Church.
I'm talking about the "having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets" part. I already said I agreed Christ was the foundation itself.


[font="tahoma][size="2"]
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[bud02]

You supposedly disagree with my assertion that the Apostles were chosen to build the foundation of Christ's Church.
I'm talking about the "[font="tahoma][size="2"]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets" part. I already said I agreed Christ was the foundation itself.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font]

You really need to get a grip on reading comprehension. :) or are you simply looking for a disagreement.

 

[TexUs]

Then what's the point of your response to me?

Just in case I mis interpreted I even left the door open: "Are you suggesting only Christ can lay a foundation? If so,"
But you didn't correct it. So either you didn't read and comprehend or in fact this is what you are talking about.

 

[dan p]

Then what's the point of your response to me?

Just in case I mis interpreted I even left the door open: "Are you suggesting only Christ can lay a foundation? If so,"
But you didn't correct it. So either you didn't read and comprehend or in fact this is what you are talking about.

Hi TexUs , and in Matt 16:18 n, it is Jesus that says " I will build My Assembly ".

Then in 1 Cor 3:10 , Paul saids , According to the Grace given unto me , as a wise masterbuilder , I have laid the FOUNDATION , and it is to foundations , ONE for Israel and ONE for the Body of Christ .

One for the Millennium and the other for the heavenly Body of Christ for wwe are seated in the heavenlies , Eph 1:3 , dan p

 

[TexUs]

Hi TexUs , and in Matt 16:18 n, it is Jesus that says " I will build My Assembly ".

Then in 1 Cor 3:10 , Paul saids , According to the Grace given unto me , as a wise masterbuilder , I have laid the FOUNDATION , and it is to foundations , ONE for Israel and ONE for the Body of Christ .

One for the Millennium and the other for the heavenly Body of Christ for wwe are seated in the heavenlies , Eph 1:3 , dan p

I'm sorry but those texts don't say that. Instead of providing "Dan's Alternative To the Bible", please quote them as they actually appear.

 

[dan p]

I'm sorry but those texts don't say that. Instead of providing "Dan's Alternative To the Bible", please quote them as they actually appear.

Hi TexUs , I see Daniel is the bible and have even seen my last name , but never " Dan's Alterative to the Bible " and why not read the verses given ???

Gee whiz , dan p

 

[TexUs]

Then in 1 Cor 3:10 , Paul saids , According to the Grace given unto me , as a wise masterbuilder , I have laid the FOUNDATION , and it is to foundations , ONE for Israel and ONE for the Body of Christ .

What it really says is drastically different.


According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.


There is absolutely nothing about two foundations.

One for the Millennium and the other for the heavenly Body of Christ for wwe are seated in the heavenlies , Eph 1:3 , dan p

Again, nothing about two foundations, and Ephesians 1:3 doesn't even support us being seated in the heavenly places much less it being a foundation.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Then in 1 Cor 3:10 , Paul saids , According to the Grace given unto me , as a wise masterbuilder , I have laid the FOUNDATION , and it is to foundations , ONE for Israel and ONE for the Body of Christ .

What it really says is drastically different.





There is absolutely nothing about two foundations.

One for the Millennium and the other for the heavenly Body of Christ for wwe are seated in the heavenlies , Eph 1:3 , dan p

Again, nothing about two foundations, and Ephesians 1:3 doesn't even support us being seated in the heavenly places much less it being a foundation.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

 

[dan p]

What it really says is drastically different.


According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.


There is absolutely nothing about two foundations.


Again, nothing about two foundations, and Ephesians 1:3 doesn't even support us being seated in the heavenly places much less it being a foundation.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,




What it really says is drastically different.





There is absolutely nothing about two foundations.


Again, nothing about two foundations, and Ephesians 1:3 doesn't even support us being seated in the heavenly places much less it being a foundation.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Hi TexUs , and the one that I failed to present is in 1 Peter 2:1-8 that is used in conjuction with Matt 16 , and is used the RCC to prove that Peter is the head of that foundation and the other one as prevoius mentioned in 1 Cor 3:10-11 which to me is linked to Eph 2::19-22 . dan p

 

[TexUs]

Hi TexUs , and the one that I failed to present is in 1 Peter 2:1-8 that is used in conjuction with Matt 16 , and is used the RCC to prove that Peter is the head of that foundation and the other one as prevoius mentioned in 1 Cor 3:10-11 which to me is linked to Eph 2::19-22 . dan p

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


Absolutely nothing about two foundations.


2:1 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. 2 Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” 7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” [1]8 and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.



Absolutely nothing about two foundations.


So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.


Absolutely nothing about two foundations.