Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[ewq1938]

Could it be that you interpret the scripture of Rev. 20:6 from a perspective that is according to the Premil understanding and not that of the Amil understanding, as I do?

Yes. I'll leave that topic alone for now because the thread isn't about the discussion.

Yes, that would be the intention of that function, but it's much easier to read what is copied and placed in front of you, than to go chase something and risk losing one's focus and place about the topic.

*shrug*

 

[ewq1938]

Paul is teaching = where Jesus was teaching about the Trib and Great Trib.

Same period of time, in one gospel it's the word with "great" in front of it and in another gospel the word "great" is not used. Same thing though.

 

[Earburner]

Yes. I'll leave that topic alone for now because the thread isn't about the discussion.

Yes. I agree that we do not see eye to eye on the issues of what a biblical millennium actually is. Having that steep doctrinal difference between us is going to muddy the water in numerous ways, as it already has. Peace brother!

*shrug*

*shrug*???
On an open public forum, it's as simple as this: I always try to write having the audience in mind. Therefore for an "on looker" coming into the middle of a discussion between two people, and all that the on looker sees is a very small portion of the argument by the OP., they are not readily able to see the context of what was written in support of what they see. Therefore, by you only supplying a very small percentage of what was written, in essence you prejudged the OP's context as being not necessary.
I say: let the reading audience have the opportunity to judge that which is not necessary.

 

[ewq1938]

*shrug*???

Yeah, it's a shoulder thing (virtual shoulder)

 

[Behold]

Same period of time, in one gospel it's the word with "great" in front of it and in another gospel the word "great" is not used. Same thing though.

Yes.

The "Trib" is 7 yrs, and it contains also the "Great Trib", that is the last 3.5 yrs of the entire Tribulation.

So, both the "enduring to the end", and the "Abomination of Desolation" are found in the 2nd Half of the Trib, that is the "Grt Trib".

 

[ewq1938]

Yes.

The "Trib" is 7 yrs, and it contains also the "Great Trib", that is the last 3.5 yrs of the entire Tribulation.

It used to be 7 years but CHrist said it would be shortened and we find in Rev that it is half the length now. The trib/great trib is a total of 42 months and there is no mid point mentioned in any scripture.

 

[Earburner]

Yeah, it's a shoulder thing (virtual shoulder)

Yeah, when studying about 2 Thes. 2, the Pre-mil, Amil or Post-mil views do come into play, especially how one understands the 70 weeks of Daniel. It is at that point of understanding that much division occurs, long before 2 Thes. 2.

Shrug - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In much of "church-ianity", "the wisdom of men" is not able or allowed to discern spiritual things. Therefore, denominational Bible colleges and seminaries have sprung up all over the place, thus ignoring what the Apostle John said:
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Not that those who do attend bible colleges and semanaries are unsaved, but rather unknowingly they think and study the bible with their "natural man/mind", instead of with "the mind of Christ".
I suggest to all Born again Christians that they study the bible in the spiritual things of God, and do less study in the literal teachings and doctrines of men.

Prophecy is highly spiritual, and therefore the scriptures following, are to be discerned for correct prophetic interpretations. Too much of Christian thought today is derived by "the natural man" mind.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man [mind] receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:1
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; COMPARING spiritual things with spiritual.

Colossians 1:9
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

 

[Truth7t7]

I think it should be discussed whether the man of lawlessness is talking about an individual man or about lawless mankind in general. In 2 Timothy 3:16-17 it refers to "the man of God" in a general sense in relation to the people of God or possibly to the leaders in the church. Either way, it's not referring to an individual man of God. But, we can talk about the 7 items you listed above first if you want.

Yes you deny that (The Man Of Sin) will be a future literal human man, you symbolize this future literal man into no future existence, "sad"!

A Literal Human Man, Personal Pronouns "He" "His" "Him" "Himself"

2 Thessalonians 2:3-10KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Truth7t7]

Many of the Reformers taught false doctrine, as you know. I'm honestly baffled as to why you put so much trust in their teachings.

Agree

 

[Earburner]

Yes you deny that (The Man Of Sin) will be a future literal human man, you symbolize this future literal man into no future existence, "sad"!

A Literal Human Man, Personal Pronouns "He" "His" "Him" "Himself"

2 Thessalonians 2:3-10KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The words "except there come a falling away [of many] first", in verse 3, sets the format for all of 2 Thes. 2:3-10 to be understood in the PLURAL, which is exactly how "that spirit of antichrist" works.
1 John 4:3
And  EVERY spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[Truth7t7]

The words "except there come a falling away [of many] first", in verse 3, sets the format for all of 2 Thes. 2:3-10 to be understood in the PLURAL, which is exactly how "that spirit of antichrist" works.
1 John 4:3
And  EVERY spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

(The Little Horn)(The Man Of Sin)(The Beast) represent the very same future human man upon this earth

 

[Earburner]

(The Little Horn)(The Man Of Sin)(The Beast) represent the very same future human man upon this earth

"The little horn" has nothing to do with "the man of sin", but "the natural man" does. Both are to be understood in the plural.
"The beast" in Rev. is the fourth beast of Daniel, which is symbolic of the Roman empire.

"The little horn" was fulfilled by one man named Antiochus Epiphanes, of the Seleucid Empire, which was one of four empires that rose to power out of the Grecian Empire of Alexander the Great.
The historical books of 1&2 Maccabees describe those events.

 

[Truth7t7]

"The little horn" has nothing to do with "the man of sin", but "the natural man" does. Both are to be understood in the plural.
"The beast" in Rev. is the fourth beast of Daniel, which is symbolic of the Roman empire.

"The little horn" was fulfilled by one man named Antiochus Epiphanes, of the Seleucid Empire, which was one of four empires that rose to power out of the Grecian Empire of Alexander the Great.
The historical books of 1&2 Maccabees describe those events.

I Strongly Disagree With Your Reformed Preterist Eschatology

 

[IndianaRob]

"The little horn" has nothing to do with "the man of sin", but "the natural man" does.

This is 100% correct! The man of sin is the natural man.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is 100% correct! The man of sin is the natural man.

How can you honestly claim the scripture presented below represents (The Natural Man)

That's like claiming the cross of Calvary really represents the scare crow in the wizard of Oz

Real Big Smiles!

2 Thessalonians 2:7-9KJV
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

[IndianaRob]

How can you honestly claim the scripture presented below represents (The Natural Man)

Real Big Smiles!

2 Thessalonians 2:7-9KJV
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

The most compelling reason is because the temple of God is the human body and it’s not possible for The Antichrist to sit on that throne. Add to that the natural man is destroyed by the Lord coming into a believers life.

 

[Earburner]

This is 100% correct! The man of sin is the natural man.

Yes. And as "the natural man" is understood to be in the plural, so also is the case for "the man of sin".

 

[Earburner]

I Strongly Disagree With Your Reformed Preterist Eschatology

Of course! Instead of Born again Christians hearing Holy Spirit taught truth from the mind of Christ from within one's own self (1 Cor. 2:13,16), many find it easier to swallow "the wisdom of men", from the pharisaical agents of denominational Bible colleges and/or Seminaries.

How else would anyone know what "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" is, unless they themselves were steeped in their own  pharisaical ways of Religion, aka church-ianity.

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course! Instead of Born again Christians hearing Holy Spirit taught truth from the mind of Christ from within one's own self (1 Cor. 2:13,16), many find it easier to swallow "the wisdom of men", from the pharisaical agents of denominational Bible colleges and/or Seminaries.

How else would anyone know what "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" is, unless they themselves were steeped in their own  pharsaical ways of Religion, aka church-ianity.

Love ya Earburner, we been posting for a long time, reformed preterist eschatology is on the frindge and that's being nice

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ewq1938]

"The little horn" has nothing to do with "the man of sin", but "the natural man" does. Both are to be understood in the plural.

That would change scripture because both are written in the singular. It's like reading Abought Christ's mother Mary and claiming it should be understood as multiple Mary's despite not being written in a plural form.

The little horn is not the little horns.
The man of sin is not the men of sin.

The context of both passages are of a single man doing various things not many men.

Changes like this is where false doctrines come from.