Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[CrowCross]

Apostasy as rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 was unseen, unsaid, and unknown in true Christian orthodoxy prior to the 19th century.

The relevant Bible translations which it is claimed contain the dogma were all written by Reformers from the 14th to 17th centuries. No Reformer ever heard of a pretrib rapture. Suffering as they were under the apostate papal antichrist, they would have found the idea risibly absurd.

Do you honestly think Darby invented the rapture?

 

[Earburner]

Matthew 27 does not call the raised saints the 144,000.

Malachi 3 does not identify those remembered by God as the souls under the altar.

Revelation 6 does not say the souls under the altar are all faithful Israelites from the Old Covenant.

The white robes are not identified as the seal of the Holy Spirit.

And John 7:39 does not say that faithful Israelites who had already died were later sealed and became the 144,000.

These connections are being added to the texts rather than stated by them - study and stay within scripture.

Revelation 7 presents the 144,000 as servants sealed before coming judgment, and Revelation 14 presents them as firstfruits who follow the Lamb. That sounds more like a specially prepared company for a prophetic purpose than a complete number of Old Covenant believers who had already died.

You didn't understand my post #644. All the OC saints under the altar of the OC had died in faith believing of "the Promise to come". Therefore Abraham, Moses and the many others of OC Israel NEVER HAD the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is the vehicle of the Gift of Eternal Life. 1 John 5:11-13.
Please re-study and learn by the Holy Spirit within you, and He shall confirm through the mind of Christ that Rev. 6:9-11 is about the 144,000 of OC Israel, of which God "remembered", and never forgot. Malachi 3:16-18.
No longer are their names written in the book of Remembrance, but NOW.....
they are written in the Book of Life who is Jesus.

 

[covenantee]

Do you honestly think Darby invented the rapture?

The question is, who invented a modernist meaning of apostasy?

 

[CrowCross]

The question is, who invented a modernist meaning of apostasy?

As I said in post 679..
Note: The Rheims translators explicitly rejected "departing" because they wanted to frame the text as a prophecy against the Protestant Reformation. By using "revolt," they directly accused the Protestants of causing the end-times apostasia by revolting against the Roman Catholic Church and the authority of the Pope.

The changing of the world was a theologically biased based reason rather than a literal direct translation.

The word "revolt" influenced the King James Version and over time became the incorrect standard seen in modern bibles.

Does that answer your question?