Who is Right?

[mjrhealth]

Ahhhh - maybe you just need to R*E*A*D it again . . .

I did and it still stands.

The rosary is just that, vain babbling just like the heathen do. We serve a living word Jesus Christ we serve a living God, not a dead one made of wood or stone, he has ears to hear and unlike the heathen gods he has children that love talking to Him, because He is there father and they know He hears them. We dont ned to pray to dead peopel or idols or teh queen of heaven for we have direct access to God through Jesus,,

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

So we chat like a son does with his father.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did and it still stands.

The rosary is just that, vain babbling just like the heathen do. We serve a living word Jesus Christ we serve a living God, not a dead one made of wood or stone, he has ears to hear and unlike the heathen gods he has children that love talking to Him, because He is there father and they know He hears them. We dont ned to pray to dead peopel or idols or teh queen of heaven for we have direct access to God through Jesus,,

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

So we chat like a son does with his father.

I did and it still stands.

The rosary is just that, vain babbling just like the heathen do. We serve a living word Jesus Christ we serve a living God, not a dead one made of wood or stone, he has ears to hear and unlike the heathen gods he has children that love talking to Him, because He is there father and they know He hears them. We dont ned to pray to dead peopel or idols or teh queen of heaven for we have direct access to God through Jesus,,

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

So we chat like a son does with his father.

And your filthy lies continue . . .

Ummmmm, do you have any idea what an "idol" is?
I didn't think so. i suggest you look it up.

As for the Rosary or ANY Catholic prayer being "vain babbling" - can you explain HOW - or do you just enjoy wallowing in ignorant statements?
Show me the "error" of my ways. After all - it is your DUTY . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Ummmmm, do you have any idea what an "idol" is?
I didn't think so. i suggest you look it up.

Lev_26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Deu_29:17 And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Hab_2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

Seems to be anything that is not flesh and blood, anything that replaces Jesus or God, anything that a man looks up to in place of God, even the bible is an idon to the hearts of so many, replacing God as it does.

We christians serve teh living God dont you??

 

[bbyrd009]

Regardless of your belief system, Armageddon ends for you when you die. The Revelation of Christ is a personal struggle, and wrestling with flesh and blood is a sign, a manifestation that indicates that the struggle is not being addressed. Love believes all things.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lev_26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Deu_29:17 And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Hab_2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

Seems to be anything that is not flesh and blood, anything that replaces Jesus or God, anything that a man looks up to in place of God, even the bible is an idon to the hearts of so many, replacing God as it does.

We christians serve teh living God dont you??

An "idol" is something other than god that is WORSHIPPED.
Whenever you use that term in regards to a crucifix or rosary, or statue or painting - you are simply exposing your abject ignorance . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Jusr for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYKFWsFW8CA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WZ41VR5rWg

if that is not worshiping idols I just dont know...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jusr for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYKFWsFW8CA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WZ41VR5rWg

if that is not worshiping idols I just dont know...

Soooo . . .
- When they have the Rose Parade and the Queen is paraded around with her entourage - they're "worshipping" her??

- When a Bride walks down the aisle in a beautiful gown and everybody stands up to see her - they're "worshipping" her??

- When Miss America parades around the stage and throngs of people are applauding her - they're "worshipping" her??

- When a hero gets a ticker tape parade in New York and thousands of people show up to pay their respect - they're "worshipping" them??

- When a person brings their mother flowers and hugs and kisses her on mother's Day - they're "worshipping" her??

You have REALLY exposed yourself this time, my dishonest, anti-Catholic friend . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

More excuses is that all you have??

Oh there are no anti catholics here, we have no problems with teh people, see you are making it all about "YOU", it is catholism, teh religion that is teh problem. just as it is with all religions.

 

[BreadOfLife]

More excuses is that all you have??

Oh there are no anti catholics here, we have no problems with teh people, see you are making it all about "YOU", it is catholism, teh religion that is teh problem. just as it is with all religions.

Translation:
"How DARE you expose my dishonesty, Bread Of Life!"

 

[mjrhealth]

Translation:
"How DARE you expose my dishonesty, Bread Of Life!"

Oh you are a commedian must come watch the show. I assume this will be closed next. I even heard taht shout from teh other side of the world....

 

[epostle1]

I think that God would prefer the statues be torn down, but that would have to be by the Catholics (at least some church vandalism has been committed by over zealous individuals taking the scripture literally and desiring to please God.) Here's a question for one of the RCC apologists. How is reciting memorized prayers an act of penance and how can anyone answer a prayer except God Himself? Oops, that's actually 2 questions. However I don't find an answer to these in scripture, but instead an admonition to enter boldly into the throne room of God and another to avoid repetitive prayer.

Reciting memorized prayers is more like background music to a movie. What is actually mediated on is all the major events of the life of Christ. (the "movie" part) There are 20 in total, 18 direct from scripture, and 2 indirect from scripture. Jesus did not condemn repetitive prayer, just the vanity. I've been in Protestant services and heard "praise the Lord!" 50 times a minute, so you tell me who is more repetitive.

The Rosary is not so much an act of penance (although it can be used for that), it is an act of love.

Psalm 136 repeats the words “for his steadfast love endures for ever” 26 times in 26 verses, which is far more repetitive than any Catholic prayer. Was David wrong? There other examples in scripture...there is vain repetition, and good repetition, that Jesus himself used.

If you want to go deeper into Scripture, and enrich your prayer life, consider the Rosary. You don't need beads, fingers work too.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/HolyRsry.htm
http://www.catholicbible101.com/therosary.htm

The proper use of religious statuary is a thoroughly biblical practice, God commanded their use in the Temple. Present day iconoclasm is the result of the errors of John Calvin that has not been outgrown.
Do Catholics Worship Statues?

 

[tabletalk]

An "idol" is something other than god that is WORSHIPPED.
Whenever you use that term in regards to a crucifix or rosary, or statue or painting - you are simply exposing your abject ignorance . . .

The Catholic Church's Eucharist is an idol. It is an object your church worships which is not God. I imagine you might ask for proof from Scripture for that statement. Others might answer you that way, but it is very simple to believe that, at the words of consecration, the wine continues to be wine, the bread continues to be bread. Therefore it is not God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Catholic Church's Eucharist is an idol. It is an object your church worships which is not God. I imagine you might ask for proof from Scripture for that statement. Others might answer you that way, but it is very simple to believe that, at the words of consecration, the wine continues to be wine, the bread continues to be bread. Therefore it is not God.

Now there is a statement that is simply of disbelief and not anti-Catholic like most of the other comments I have responded to. You simply don't believe in the Eucharist - and therefore,m you call it an "idol" because we worship it as the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. This is the first correct use of the word "idol" that I have seen on this forum - even though it is wrong.

I say, "wrong" because the Scriptures tell uys that the Catholic view of the Eucharist is correct:
It IS the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ - under the appearance of bread and win.

At the Last Supper, Jesus never said, "This bread represents my Body" and "This wine represents my Blood."
Jesus wasn't a liar. He said plainly - "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood."

This directly correlates to the Bread of Life discourse in John 6, where Jesus stated in no uncertain terms: “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. St. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to rip apart one's food- like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was not speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said. Just as the Paschal Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

In verse 60, his disciples said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"
Did Jesus explain what he "really" meant? No, he said: "Does this SHOCK you?" He knew that some would not believe because they didn't have true faith from the Father.

 

[epostle1]

The Catholic Church's Eucharist is an idol. It is an object your church worships which is not God. I imagine you might ask for proof from Scripture for that statement. Others might answer you that way, but it is very simple to believe that, at the words of consecration, the wine continues to be wine, the bread continues to be bread. Therefore it is not God.

I don't expect you to understand or accept the Church's teaching on the Eucharist, but I would ask you curb your insulting tone. There is lots of good on line information and it would be wise to get up to speed on what is actually taught and believed, instead of blurting anti-Catholic drivel. It's getting worse in this board.
The Eucharist. index page

Why can't people respectively ask questions instead of attacking Catholics with false assumptions? There are 4 derailing topics on this page alone, all inflammatory. It's open season on Catholics and there appears to be a double standard. I'm under the impression we (1.2 billion) are not welcome here.

RULE: Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

This rule is not enforced.
Defending against endless insults and attacks is not "pushing". I'd lock this thread if I were a moderator.

 

[mjrhealth]

anti-Catholic

No anti - Catholics here not one, i dont know of anyone here who has a problem with Catholics, no one here has a problem with the people , no one.

 

[tabletalk]

I don't expect you to understand or accept the Church's teaching on the Eucharist, but I would ask you curb your insulting tone. There is lots of good on line information and it would be wise to get up to speed on what is actually taught and believed, instead of blurting anti-Catholic drivel. It's getting worse in this board.
The Eucharist. index page

Why can't people respectively ask questions instead of attacking Catholics with false assumptions? There are 4 derailing topics on this page alone, all inflammatory. It's open season on Catholics and there appears to be a double standard. I'm under the impression we (1.2 billion) are not welcome here.

RULE: Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

This rule is not enforced.
Defending against endless insults and attacks is not "pushing". I'd lock this thread if I were a moderator.

I really thought I was accurately stating what the Catholic Church believes about the Eucharist, and comparing that to the (generally speaking) Protestant understanding of the bread and wine at communion. The accidents remain, the substance has changed. Protestants usually believe the accidents and the substance remain the same, before and after the words of consecration.
So, since the God we both claim to believe hates idols, Protestants should say the R.C.C. Eucharist is an idol, since it is an object of worship but is not God.

By the way, Bread of Life stated this, in response to my statement:
"Now there is a statement that is simply of disbelief and not anti-Catholic like most of the other comments I have responded to. You simply don't believe in the Eucharist - and therefore,m you call it an "idol" because we worship it as the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. This is the first correct use of the word "idol" that I have seen on this forum - even though it is wrong."

 

[bbyrd009]

pretty much says it all; with an oxymoron included, for good measure!

I don't expect you to understand or accept the Church's teaching on the Eucharist, but I would ask you curb your insulting tone. There is lots of good on line information and it would be wise to get up to speed on what is actually taught and believed, instead of blurting anti-Catholic drivel. It's getting worse in this board.
The Eucharist. index page

Why can't people respectively ask questions instead of attacking Catholics with false assumptions? There are 4 derailing topics on this page alone, all inflammatory. It's open season on Catholics and there appears to be a double standard. I'm under the impression we (1.2 billion) are not welcome here.

RULE: Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

This rule is not enforced.
Defending against endless insults and attacks is not "pushing". I'd lock this thread if I were a moderator.

i thought he was pretty nice about it. What is the nice way to tell someone they are practicing idolatry? Or, i guess that is not the kindest way to put it, so alternately how can you reasonably defend worshipping bread, instead of relating to the Last Supper as a story about how one must be consumed by Christ? Communion is turned into a religious, exclusive spectacle with "eucharist," a way to acknowledge some "club" that you are a member of, and others are not. Isn't it?

 

[Born_Again]

RULE: Denominational Posts – Excessive posts either attempting to either push a single denomination (or group) or attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

This rule is not enforced.
Defending against endless insults and attacks is not "pushing". I'd lock this thread if I were a moderator.

Consider it done!! I agree, this thread has run its course!

God Bless!!!

BA

 

[bbyrd009]

Catholics are not Christians, regardless of how much they might want to be, for whatever reason--i mean, Christ was not a Christian, either...so imo you are going to have this issue as long as you have non-Christians lent credence on a Christian board. no offense meant to any RCC people.

 

[bbyrd009]

Now there is a statement that is simply of disbelief and not anti-Catholic like most of the other comments I have responded to. You simply don't believe in the Eucharist - and therefore,m you call it an "idol" because we worship it as the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. This is the first correct use of the word "idol" that I have seen on this forum - even though it is wrong.

I say, "wrong" because the Scriptures tell uys that the Catholic view of the Eucharist is correct:
It IS the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ - under the appearance of bread and win.

At the Last Supper, Jesus never said, "This bread represents my Body" and "This wine represents my Blood."
Jesus wasn't a liar. He said plainly - "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood."

This directly correlates to the Bread of Life discourse in John 6, where Jesus stated in no uncertain terms: “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

It is interesting to note that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”, however, this is NOT the word used in these passages. St. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to rip apart one's food- like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was not speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said. Just as the Paschal Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

In verse 60, his disciples said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"
Did Jesus explain what he "really" meant? No, he said: "Does this SHOCK you?" He knew that some would not believe because they didn't have true faith from the Father.

yet Christ broke bread, and not His arm, to give the Apostles. This is what happens when you let wolves make doctrines for you, to deceive.