Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

[ewq1938]

Go to Ezekiel 28:1-10, for the prophecy about that episode.

He still doesn't come in his own name but lies and claims to be God. Even anti of anti-Christ can mean a substitute Christ, which again shows the AC does not come in his own name but impersonates God/Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

1 John 2:18

From this, we understand it’s not just *one* person.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


But are those antichrists, at that time, organized as an institution or is John saying many singular antichrists existed at that time? He also speaks of a singular AC that shall come...singular! That's one person.

 

[ewq1938]

Yea, it really makes me wonder what people are thinking when they claim the Antichrist will be a one world dictator. If Satan isn’t bound and he’s in control of this world right now, deceiving the nations, then why hasn’t he started stamping people with 666 yet?

That can only last for 42 months, which ends with Christ returning so clearly the MOB cannot just happen at any time but only within the last 42 months before the second coming.

 

[grafted branch]

That can only last for 42 months, which ends with Christ returning so clearly the MOB cannot just happen at any time but only within the last 42 months before the second coming.

Right, at some point it will be the last 42 months, but what is currently preventing Satan from implementing the MOB and kicking off the 42 month period? Is Satan bound right now or not?

 

[covenantee]

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


But are those antichrists, at that time, organized as an institution or is John saying many singular antichrists existed at that time? He also speaks of a singular AC that shall come...singular! That's one person.

He speaks of hearsay, which is one person.

Then debunks it with reality, which is many persons.

 

[ewq1938]

Right, at some point it will be the last 42 months, but what is currently preventing Satan from implementing the MOB and kicking off the 42 month period?

You have the answer. It can only start when the last 42 months is upon the world.

Is Satan bound right now or not?

The binding and imprisonment of satan in Rev 20 has not happened yet. He could not do anything described in Rev 12-13 if he were.

 

[grafted branch]

You have the answer. It can only start when the last 42 months is upon the world.




The binding and imprisonment of satan in Rev 20 has not happened yet. He could not do anything described in Rev 12-13 if he were.

You’re using circular reasoning. The last 42 months can only start when the MOB comes and the MOB can’t come until it’s the last 42 months.

At some point we all agree that the last 42 months happen. If Satan can’t currently do anything that takes place in the final 42 months then he is currently bound in some kind of way.

How can Satan be loose and deceiving the nations while being powerless to implement the MOB? Is Satan just taking his time? Is he lazy?

 

[ewq1938]

You’re using circular reasoning. The last 42 months can only start when the MOB comes and the MOB can’t come until it’s the last 42 months.

The MOB is not at the start of the 42 months. First is the first of the two beasts, then the second beast, then the image of the beast, then the image made to come alive and only after that is the MOB given out.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

At some point we all agree that the last 42 months happen. If Satan can’t currently do anything that takes place in the final 42 months then he is currently bound in some kind of way.

In Rev 20 he is bound and imprisoned not only bound. He is not in the prison currently.

How can Satan be loose and deceiving the nations while being powerless to implement the MOB? Is Satan just taking his time? Is he lazy?

Things have to happen before the false prophet issues the MOB. The FP isn't even here yet, nor is the first beast, nor even the image of the beast. All those have to occur before the mark does. See Rev 13.

 

[TheHC]

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


But are those antichrists, at that time, organized as an institution or is John saying many singular antichrists existed at that time? He also speaks of a singular AC that shall come...singular! That's one person.

It’s a group.

 

[Douggg]

He still doesn't come in his own name but lies and claims to be God. Even anti of anti-Christ can mean a substitute Christ, which again shows the AC does not come in his own name but impersonates God/Christ.

The person you are calling the Antichrist is only such for the time he is the thought-to-be King of Israel messiah by the Jews - instead of Jesus. The person is the Antichrist for around 3 years.

1. as the little horn, first.
2. then as the prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog.
3. then becomes the Antichrist, anointed King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews.
4. three years later, thereabouts, he commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thesslaonians2:4. Revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all as the Jews will have initially thought.
5. he is killed for the act, and then brought back to life to become the beast-king.

The error you and so many others make is referring to the person as the Antichrist no matter what stage he is in. It is like someone continuing to call a person governor - after he has become president.

Use this technique instead in your posts - say the person as the Antichrist, the person as the little horn, the person as the revealed man of sin, the person as the beast-king.

For example, as the little horn, the person will become leader over a group of ten other EU leaders.

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Given where we are at on the parable of the fig tree generation timeline - what we should be focusing on and expecting is the identification of who that person is. It is not Donald Trump. It is not Vladimir Putin. It is not the pope. It is someone who has to be a Jew.

 

[grafted branch]

The MOB is not at the start of the 42 months. First is the first of the two beasts, then the second beast, then the image of the beast, then the image made to come alive and only after that is the MOB given out.

Fair enough, maybe instead of MOB I should’ve used when the dragon gives his power seat and authority to the beast in Revelation 13:2.

In Rev 20 he is bound and imprisoned not only bound. He is not in the prison currently.

Ok, so you are in agreement then that Satan is bound, you just make the distinction that he is not imprisoned in the bottomless pit yet.

In Revelation 20:2 Satan is bound for a thousand years, then in verse 3 he is cast into the bottomless pit that he shouldn’t deceive till the thousand years are fulfilled. If Satan is currently bound, why would he need to be bound again before being cast into the pit?

 

[ewq1938]

Fair enough, maybe instead of MOB I should’ve used when the dragon gives his power seat and authority to the beast in Revelation 13:2.

That would be better.

Ok, so you are in agreement then that Satan is bound, you just make the distinction that he is not imprisoned in the bottomless pit yet.

He is not bound in any sense of the use of the term in Rev 20. There the chain binding and imprisonment happen at the same time. There is no other binding said to happen to satan to reduce his abilities. Christ described satan as gaining power not losing it and we see this gain of power in scripture and only loses it at the second coming.

In Revelation 20:2 Satan is bound for a thousand years, then in verse 3 he is cast into the bottomless pit that he shouldn’t deceive till the thousand years are fulfilled. If Satan is currently bound, why would he need to be bound again before being cast into the pit?

He isn't bound as Rev 20 describes yet.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Antichrist?

I understand that MANY people are duped into believing that there will be a single man that Satan will someday physically possess him.

However, the man of sin is the exact opposite of the man of Godliness or righteousness, Elect. One "man" has the Spirit of God ruling within him, and one "man" has the spirit of Satan ruling within him. One unto sin or lawlessness and one unto righteousness or lawfulness. One has the mystery of iniquity revealed to him, while to the other it remains a secret/mystery to him wherein he is deceived to believe lies and be damned. Two very different groups of people within the church that are spoken about Clearly in these passages:

2nd Thessalonians 2:11-14

• "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
• But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
• Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

See those two very distinct groups of people of God's house? One group is deceived to believe lies and be damned because they reject the Truth, and the other, having been chosen through sanctification of the Spirit to believe the truth, is secured. Selah!

The bottomline is? The Devil will NOT be a man himself. Rather, he is a spirit that works within man just as God is a spirit (Holy Spirit) that works within man. Professed Christians v.s. Chosen Believers. The only place you'll see a Devil sitting in a literal Temple is in a bad movie, or a gothic painting, or man's vivid imagination. If you want to see evil, look to man, whom the spirit of antichrist works within. They make up the army of Gog and Magog. Not one supernatural man that the premillennialists are trying to dream of.

 

[grafted branch]

There is no other binding said to happen to satan to reduce his abilities. Christ described satan as gaining power not losing it and we see this gain of power in scripture and only loses it at the second coming.

Hold on a minute, in Matthew 4:8-9 Satan temps Jesus with the kingdoms of the world. In Daniel 2 Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold, Babylon was the one world government.
Satan had all the kingdoms and a one world government before Jesus was on earth. How can you say Satans abilities are not reduced or his power is continually increasing? Isn’t a one world government what the Antichrist is supposed to bring in? Satan already had that, Satan had to have lost some of his power somewhere, right?

 

[grafted branch]

2nd Thessalonians 2:11-14

• "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
• But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
• Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

You left out 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10. Whose coming is … in them that perish.

The coming happens inside of those that perish, a spiritual coming.

 

[ewq1938]

Hold on a minute, in Matthew 4:8-9 Satan temps Jesus with the kingdoms of the world.

Doesn't mean all those nations were his to give at that time. This is a version of the whole "I have a bridge I want to sell you.".

In Daniel 2 Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold, Babylon was the one world government.

No, it wasn't. None have been an actual one world government yet.

Satan had all the kingdoms and a one world government before Jesus was on earth. How can you say Satans abilities are not reduced or his power is continually increasing?

Christ said satan addressed as the ruler of the world was coming. This happened after the cross.

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

G758
a?´????
archo¯n
ar'-khone
Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.


G758
a?´????
archo¯n
Thayer Definition:
1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: present participle of G757
Citing in TDNT: 1:488, 81

According to Christ, the ruler of this world was to come after Christ left. We know from Rev 12 that after He ascended there was a war in heaven and satan was cast to the Earth just as Christ said would happen. According to Jesus Christ himself, the one reigning/ruling the world after His ascension would be satan.

Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


According to this, the ruler of the known world at that time was Nebuchadnezzar by God's command. Who ultimately rules over creation? God. Does God allow others to rule this world? Yes. Satan is allowed by God to rule this world and is ruling now and will rule until the 7th trump.

So the idea satan is less powerful and is restricted since the cross is false. Satan has been allowed to have more power and influence than ever and he continues to deceive the nations despite claims that he can no longer do that.

It reminds me of the story of Job. At first satan is allowed some power to try to cause Job to falter. When that fails God gives him more power. That is what happened after the cross. God has given satan the authority to be the ruler of this world and allows him to kill Christians and hold back the gospel from the nations because he is actively deceiving them. This will get worse, culminating in satan's global tribulation which will be the worst period the Church/saints/body of Christ has ever faced and there shall be "a falling away" because of how terrible that period shall be BUT the good news is Christ shall return and the body of Christ shall be forever protected. Only then will satan be bound and imprisoned and instead of this false "limited and restricted influence" claim. He shall be fully powerless until God let's him have one short season to deceive once more then he will be destroyed and all like him.

Isn’t a one world government what the Antichrist is supposed to bring in? Satan already had that, Satan had to have lost some of his power somewhere, right?

No, not on Earth. He has more power over people, eventually causing the Apostasy of the GT, literally ruling the entire world for the first time, and being successful killing Christians/the saints mentioned in the 5th seal and Rev 13 etc. Through his beast, he will have a mark on all his spiritual children and they will have this success for a total of 42 months. It will be the most successful satan has ever been in this world....then Christ returns and satan loses it all for a thousand years and will try to rebuild but it will fail quickly and then satan is no more.

 

[grafted branch]

No, it wasn't. None have been an actual one world government yet.

Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

I don’t know how it can get any clearer than that, “ruler over them all”.

Christ said satan addressed as the ruler of the world was coming. This happened after the cross.

Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

I don’t agree, I think as most of the commentaries say, John 14:30 was referring to Satan coming for Jesus when he entered Judas.

Satan is allowed by God to rule this world and is ruling now and will rule until the 7th trump.

So the idea satan is less powerful and is restricted since the cross is false. Satan has been allowed to have more power and influence than ever and he continues to deceive the nations despite claims that he can no longer do that.

In Revelation 18:2 Babylon is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Satans power is restricted to Babylon, it becomes his cage when Babylon falls. After this in Revelation 18:4 “my people” are commanded to come out of her. When do you suppose this happens, after the seventh trumpet?

Surely Babylon falls when the Daniel 2 statue falls and after that the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

 

[Timtofly]

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Single individual?

If so, who is he?

There is a distinction between accepting the gift of God and becoming the man of God. One may be saved from death, but their works indicate they are most definitely not a man of God.

Your average human is a sinner but not the man of sin, who represents sin itself.

So if you all are just going to make this a generality and anything goes, you certainly should not teach one can loose their salvation, if they don't live up to that "man of God" standard.

The man of God is certainly not the corporate body of the church, universal. Especially to you all who point to one particular church as a prime example of what it is not to be the prime example.

Being throughly furnished unto all good works and perfect is a work in progress, by reading and studying the Scriptures, and putting them to work in one's life.

 

[Timtofly]

Yea, it really makes me wonder what people are thinking when they claim the Antichrist will be a one world dictator. If Satan isn’t bound and he’s in control of this world right now, deceiving the nations, then why hasn’t he started stamping people with 666 yet?

I guess Satan is a benevolent guy, not willing that any should perish, that’s why he’s waiting to bring on the Antichrist one world dictator.

Satan was never bound in a pit, and was never a world dictator. Hardly the prince of this world. Prince just indicating a person of importance, who many are deceived by. Prince of this world is not being a world dictator.

Obviously if Satan presented himself to the general population, he would not be able to push his atheistic narrative that God does not exist. The Bible does not speak highly of Satan, but that Satan is the main antagonist against God. So revealing Satan would be proof of the main character, God Himself.

All Scripture indicates the Day of the Lord cannot start until Satan is revealed, destroyed, and bound in the pit. The Day of the Lord is the time period Satan will be bound.

There is no Scripture that states nor implies that Satan has to be bound for a very long time and then loosed before the Day of the Lord can come.

 

[Timtofly]

Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

I don’t know how it can get any clearer than that, “ruler over them all”.

Are you saying Satan was actually Nebuchadnezzer? Nebuchadnezzer was not a human king, but Satan?