Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

[TribulationSigns]

The coming or parousia in 2 Thessalonians 2:9 was an arrival just as Jesus has a coming or parousia.

No its not. Satan reveals through men (false prophets and Christs) who is coming with false gospel (lying signs and wonders). Not the coming of a single antichrist man.

 

[grafted branch]

No its not. Satan reveals through men (false prophets and Christs) who is coming with false gospel (lying signs and wonders). Not the coming of a single antichrist man.

I agree that it’s not a single antichrist person, it’s a group of people that the parousia or coming happens in.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Here John says you heard it was coming and now it’s here. The parousia or coming happened some time in the first century. That coming couldn’t have happened prior to Jesus coming in the flesh but obviously already did come when 1 John was written.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The parousia or coming happened some time in the first century.

Nope.

 

[ewq1938]

No its not. Satan reveals through men (false prophets and Christs) who is coming with false gospel (lying signs and wonders). Not the coming of a single antichrist man.

John spoke of both. There were many antichrist's plus there would come a future, singular AC. You are teaching only half of what John taught regarding all things AC.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.

 

[TribulationSigns]

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.

No. You misunderstood. Please read the verse together again:

1st John 2:18

• "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

Notice here how John clearly debunks the theory of antichrist being 'one man.' He says as they have heard that antichrist should come in the future (Jesus Himself preached of false Christs coming in Matthew 24), even then as he wrote this there were already many antichrists. It's important to see that John didn't deny the doctrine that antichrist would come to prominence in the future, rather, he simply told them that even in their time there were indeed many of these antichrists. For example, antichrist is NOT a single man as some Christians have presupposed. When we let scriptures define antichrist we see that he has a very different meaning than some theologians of our day. The truth is, he is exactly what the name implies. Anyone who comes as [anti] opposed to, or as a false or substitute for Christ. God already has a name for those who are outside the Church and are opposed to Him. They are [apistos] translated infidels or unbelievers. The anti or substitute Christs are something else entirely. They profess that they are the Church but deny Christ in their works. The terms 'false Christs and 'antichrists' are basically synonymous, because they illustrate the same spirit of the substitute Christ.

In 1st John 2:18 we read that they had heard that antichrist would come (future), but that there were even then many antichrists already present. Scripture here has defined the antichrist as that which is coming, and indeed many were already present. So again we see scripture confirms that antichrist is Satan manifesting himself in the disobedient. This spirit is seen as character traits of one whose life is in league with Satan, just as the true Christians has the Spirit of God which manifests itself in our life as character traits of our being in league with Christ. Two spirits, one of Christ and the other of antichrist. Antichrist cannot be a single man, nor a supernatural evil man. Satan is THAT spirit that is BOTH coming (as this spirit will be loosed in the future), and that which was already at work in the world at the time of John's writing! Selah. That is where you got this all wrong about your one-man antichrist. This is information God has given to illuminate these passages that we can glean from them just who antichrist represents. Only the spirit Satan working within men 'qualifies' to both be in the world then, now, and in the future. The spirit of Satan was there working in men, and as they had heard, this spirit would come with all iniquity abounding in the future (iniquity was restrained at the cross - 2nd Thessalonians 2:7). The well-oiled myth of a single antichrist man is found wanting when examined in the light of the 'whole' of scripture. Antichrist works (and has worked) throughout time within men whom he uses to do his bidding. For He is that spirit Satan.

Another thing is that in 1st John 2:18 we read that they had heard that antichrist was to come 'in the last time,' and John says the prediction of the coming of the antichrist were being fulfilled even then because there were many antichrists there already (1st John 4:3). He confirms, 'whereby we know that it is the last time.' In other words, this is how we know it is the last time. The phrase last time refers to what is also called the 'last days' (Acts 2:17) and encompasses the whole New Testament period when Christ was prophesied to come and to reign. This is telling us this New Covenant period has ALREADY been fulfilled 'because' antichrists have come. For example, you can't have those opposing the true Christ of the Covenant if it is not yet the last time when Christ was prophesied to come. He is declaring to the Church that the presence of antichrists or substitute Christs is evidence that the prophecy is fulfilled of the last days when Christ would come to His temple and reign. The New Testament with Israel and the final dispensation has come, and the presence of antichrists prove it.

John didn't define these antichrists as many do today, he introduces them as professed Christians who had been among them, but who went their own way because they no longer believed as these faithful did. The very next verse shows that conclusively.

1st John 2:19

• "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Obviously these antichrists were professing Christians or false apostles, but they no longer could hold to the doctrines they had first received. Verse 19 is NOT talking about one antichrist but "THEY." We see the same type thing happen in our day where some in the Churches don't like the truthful doctrines and so go out from among us to form another Church. The 'context' of this chapter shows that these weren't those who denied Christ verbally, but those who denied him doctrinally and attempted to seduce the faithful. They were not antichrists because they simply denied the historical existence of Jesus (as many define antichrists) they were antichrists because they began teaching a false Christ, or another gospel other than that of Christ. This is a picture of false apostles who wanted a christ after their own image, and to teach their own versions of Christ, and so went out from among the faithful. They went out, that it might be made manifest that they were never 'truly' of the Spirit of Christ in the first place. They were always antichrists.

Like you, some theologians have stated that the fact that there were many antichrists doesn't preclude the belief that there can be a "single antichrist individual" come in the future. However, this is both inconsistent and unbiblical. A man's spirit cannot be in the world for 2000 years before his body is conceived. Satan is the only spirit who 'qualifies' to be here that long, and he has never needed one body! Do you realize that he has an army of bodies down throughout time at his disposal! There is no Biblical warrant for applying such a 'forced' interpretation as 'one incarnate Satan man." God's Word NEVER defines antichrist as a single man, but as the spirit Satan. And man (men) with this spirit, are many antichrists. Just as Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees a serpent and a generation of vipers to illustrate they were of their father the Devil, and possessed the spirit of Satan (Matt 23:33). Likewise, those who are of this spirit antichrist, are antichrists. Antichrist can be singular only in that ultimately he is that spirit Satan. If we are going to define antichrist as a single 'man' that is yet to come, we will have to ignore all the scriptures which actually speak of antichrist. For example, ignore the context and content of scripture and apply our own 'private interpretation.' But when we allow God to define His own Word, we find nothing in scripture which makes the 'single man' declaration. So the coming antichrist is the loosing of the spirit of Satan with all lying signs and wonders (2nd Thess 2:7-10) which works within unregenerate men. There were many antichrists or many men with the spirit of antichrist even in John's day, and when that spirit of Satan which was bound by Christ's cross is loosed, then will that spirit antichrist come to the full. Iniquity shall abound, and then shall be revealed Satan. This is the only consistent theological conclusion we can come to and have it be in total agreement with the 'whole' of scripture.

Selah!

 

[ewq1938]

No. You misunderstood.

No, you did. You are changing the singular mention of antichrist into plural which is a form of eisegesis. The scripture supports the idea of a singular and unique AC separate from the many John also mentions. Denial of the antichrist is definitely antichrist theology. Ever hear of the old saying, "The greatest trick the Devil ever did was convince the world he doesn't exist."? Denial of the antichrist is a part of endtimes deception, and all belief systems and denominations have theology like this in some form.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, you did. You are changing the singular mention of antichrist into plural which is a form of eisegesis. The scripture supports the idea of a singular and unique AC separate from the many John also mentions. Denial of the antichrist is definitely antichrist theology. Ever hear of the old saying, "The greatest trick the Devil ever did was convince the world he doesn't exist."? Denial of the antichrist is a part of endtimes deception, and all belief systems and denominations have theology like this in some form.

You have not refuted anything I wrote! You just said, "The scripture supports the idea of a singular and unique AC." What Scripture are you talking about? You did not even bother to read the next verse, 1st John 2:19.

I know that the devil exists, only that he is a SPIRIT who works within men the antichrists. Not one body of man who soon rule the world. The true end-time deception is that you are waiting for a "singular" supernatural man when in fact he is among us just as 1st John 2:19 and there are many!

Goodbye

 

[ewq1938]

You have not refuted anything I wrote!

I did actually. Blatant errors like the one you made shows the rest of us that we are on the right track. Denying the singular AC John wrote of is clear and obvious error.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specifically speak of one certain antichrist (singular) that was yet to come (future arrival) which means John believed there was a future Antichrist. This is known as "the Antichrist" which is a specific Antichrist among all those who are antichrists.

John does not say how far into the future that this specific Antichrist would come but he did speak in the future tense.


Paul spoke of this same singular evil person using different names:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

John writes of this same singular antichrist person calling him different names/terms in the book of Revelation, the false prophet and the (second) beast.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

What name or term used to describe this singular evil person is irrelevant because many names are used whether Antichrist, false prophet, (second) beast, man of sin, that Wicked, the son of perdition, the little horn, abomination of desolation and so on. It's all speaking of the same individual who will reign the world during the great tribulation and claim to be God and perform miracles and wonders.

The concept of a future singular "antichrist" person is biblical. Who this person is has been debated very much, but denying that there is a future singular antichrist denies what scripture tells us.

 

[Douggg]

Not one body of man who soon rule the world.

The person who will end up fulfilling Revelation 13:5-8 will go through 5 stages to get to that point.

1. as the little horn
2. as the prince who shall come
3. as the Antichrist
4. as the revealed man of sin
5. as the beast-king

Being the Antichrist is for the period that he is the King of Israel perceived messiah by the Jews. In John 5:43, Jesus said that the Jews would accept another (as their King of Israel implied) coming in his own name.

Later, he will reveal himself to be the man of sin and not the messiah that the Jews will initially have thought.

His time as the Antichrist will begin right after the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39.

-------------------------------------------------------

A modern day example of the many antichrists that John described - is Yusuf Estes, a former Christian who left Christianity to become a Muslim. I am sure you can think of some others.

So take the parts that you are right on. And take the parts that ewq1938 is right on. Combine them, and stop arguing over it. And try to identify who that person could possibly be.

 

[Douggg]

What name or term used to describe this singular evil person is irrelevant because many names are used whether Antichrist, false prophet, (second) beast, man of sin, that Wicked, the son of perdition, the little horn, abomination of desolation and so on.

Those are not names but titles. For example. President Joe Bidden. President is a title. Joe Bidden is a name.

Senator Joe Bidden. Senator is a title, but a different title and function from President.

The beast (king) name not known yet. Clues are the number of his name is 666. When the person becomes the beast he may take on a new name. So his present name may not result in 666. But that new name would.

 

[ewq1938]

Those are not names but titles.

Same thing. I didn't say personal names. The point is that the one we know as "antichrist" is called different names as well.


noun

1. a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known.
2. mere designation, as distinguished from fact:He was a king in name only.
3. 
   

 

[Douggg]

Same thing. I didn't say personal names. The point is that the one we know as "antichrist" is called different names as well.


noun

1. a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known.
2. mere designation, as distinguished from fact:He was a king in name only.
3. 
   

Being the Antichrist is not the same as being the beast-king. Just as being Senator is not the same as being President.

What about saying the person has many different labels ?

 

[Douggg]

Since the 666 will be presented as a positive number, then suppose the person takes on a new name when he becomes the beast (king) that the number is presented as positive ?

I don't know what that name might be, but I am thinking that it would be one word that (self) glorifies himself as having power over death.

Since the person will have a Jewish background, a Jew, I thought about Jacob - and at the online gematrix calculator - I tried to come up with a version that added to 666, and it seems the name Jacobia does add to 666 and is an actual name. I don't know if that means anything or not.

 

[ewq1938]

Being the Antichrist is not the same as being the beast-king.

It is the same thing. Same man, same timeframe and duration. He is known by more than these two names as well.

Just as being Senator is not the same as being President.

What about saying the person has many different labels ?

It's the same thing but use whatever works as long as it's correct. I do not agree they are fulfilled at separate times though. All the names and titles and labels are for the same man at the same time.

 

[ewq1938]

Since the 666 will be presented as a positive number,

That isn't in the bible. The number isn't even "presented" as a number. It's the number of a name so it's the name that is presented.

 

[Douggg]

That isn't in the bible. The number isn't even "presented" as a number. It's the number of a name so it's the name that is presented.

The number will be presented by the false prophet as something positive. Do you think the false prophet is going to say - take this number so that you can be eternally damned ?

There was a false christ a few years back named José Luis de Jesús Miranda who presented the number 666 as positive and convinced many of his followers to have 666 tattooed on their hands.

 

[Douggg]

Adonikam in the bible led 666 of his descendants back to Israel out of the Babylonian captivity.

The name Adonikam means "my lord has risen".

So given that the beast king will be killed and comes back to life - i.e. risen, then...

the beast king may be named Akonikam, as he projects himself as everyone's lord.

Which in that case, the 666 could be promoted as a positive number as pertaining to the beast - Adonikam, "my (as his followers will consider him as their lord) risen lord".

------------------------------------------------------

Adonikam may not be his original name, but becomes a name the person will call himself after becoming the beast.

 

[ewq1938]

So given that the beast king will be killed and comes back to life - i.e. risen, then...

The "beast king" is never killed and resurrected in the bible. One head which is a mountain is symbolically wounded but heals. It isn't about a person, nor is there a death or resurrection.

 

[Douggg]

The "beast king" is never killed and resurrected in the bible. One head which is a mountain is symbolically wounded but heals. It isn't about a person, nor is there a death or resurrection.

The mortally wounded by healed head is referring to a man. No only will a image be made of that man, but also the number of his name is that of a man, in Revelation 13:18

Revelation 13:

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelation 13:

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The mortally wounded by healed head is referring to a man.

Rev 17:9-10
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The head is not literal mountain. Nor the mountain is a man . And Revelation is an "obviously" symbolic book. And 7 heads symbolize AUTHORITY! This is the cryptic language that God uses in books like Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, etc. And it fact, it tells us plainly "right in the context" that there were seven mountains, meaning the mountains represented kingdoms.

Therefore, the head wounded referred to Satan's authority being taken away so that he could not deceive the nations (gentiles) so that God could build his church! When God has finished secured all of His Elect, the head would be restored meaning that Satan is allowed to deceive the nation again. Nothing to do with your fantasy of a "man" being killed and resurrected with Satan coming into his body.

Obviously, you do not even have wisdom!

No only will a image be made of that man

Sigh!!!! Do you even know what the image means exactly? It is NOT an image of a man. Silly.

but also the number of his name is that of a man, in Revelation 13:18

Revelation 13:

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelation 13:

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

God is not talking about ONE man here. But EVERY ANTICHRIST has the mark of the beast to ensure that they marked (owned) by Satan.

Think!

The mark of the beast did not take place until AFTER the beast comes out first, right? Only AFTER Christ has finished building his church right? Therefore, those who have NOT YET sealed by God (Revelation 9:3-5) will be the ones will be deceived by the false prophets and christs (beast) and receive the mark of the beast. That means despite being part of the church, they will be part of Satan's spiritual family so that they will still be lost until the end. This is the part of God's judgment upon his unfaithful congregation. This is where the mark of the beast takes place. Not Temple Mount where the talking statue will stand. Silly!

Selah!