Who is the Antichrist? Let's Put a Name on Him.

[Timtofly]

That's right. Paul doesn't call him a human, but a man. A man of sin. A thinking man that shows himself off as God. Animals don't think of God at all. They are not made in His image nor lightened by Christ to have power to do so.

The AC is not an animal beast. The AC is not a human beast. The AC is only called a beast, because it is neither animal nor human. If the AC were described as a human, it would be a human. A beast is a non descriptive term for the lack of a more descriptive term. It is generic.

In Daniel 4, did Nebuchadnezzer become an actual beast, or just acted like one for a few weeks?

Humans are not literal goats, but sometimes they are depicted as goats.

In Revelation, this end time AC is never described as a human one time, but only as a beast. No one seems to even get which character the AC is in Revelation 13. The FP is described in Revelation 13. Satan is described in Revelation 13. But no one can figure out the AC from Revelation 13, correctly.

Certainly all have their opinions and interpretations. But I don't see any as being exactly correct. Most will say I am wrong as well. Only time will tell who is right or wrong.

 

[Nancy]

The AC is not an animal beast. The AC is not a human beast. The AC is only called a beast, because it is neither animal nor human. If the AC were described as a human, it would be a human. A beast is a non descriptive term for the lack of a more descriptive term. It is generic.

In Daniel 4, did Nebuchadnezzer become an actual beast, or just acted like one for a few weeks?

Humans are not literal goats, but sometimes they are depicted as goats.

In Revelation, this end time AC is never described as a human one time, but only as a beast. No one seems to even get which character the AC is in Revelation 13. The FP is described in Revelation 13. Satan is described in Revelation 13. But no one can figure out the AC from Revelation 13, correctly.

Certainly all have their opinions and interpretations. But I don't see any as being exactly correct. Most will say I am wrong as well. Only time will tell who is right or wrong.

Hello Tim,
John never once referred to the man of sin as the Antichrist (Capital "A") in all of Revelation. He sure does though, mention the F.P. and the Beast (s). I find it strange that he does not refer to the A.C. AS Antichrist...rather than the small a antichrists...JM2C

 

[ewq1938]

Hello Tim,
John never once referred to the man of sin as the Antichrist (Capital "A") in all of Revelation. He sure does though, mention the F.P. and the Beast (s). I find it strange that he does not refer to the A.C. AS Antichrist...rather than the small a antichrists...JM2C

John never uses the term "man of sin" either...

 

[Gottservant]

The anti-Christ was Achan, from the Old Testament.

He returned to make the riches of this world, equivalent to dirt (of no value).

Every Christian that loves something in the world, therefore learns to fear the return of Achan (the anti-Christ).

 

[Always Believing]

The AC is not an animal beast. The AC is not a human beast. The AC is only called a beast, because it is neither animal nor human. If the AC were described as a human, it would be a human. A beast is a non descriptive term for the lack of a more descriptive term. It is generic.

In Daniel 4, did Nebuchadnezzer become an actual beast, or just acted like one for a few weeks?

He behaved as a senseless beast while still a man with a soul and spirit. Christ took his reasoning light away that He gives every man coming into the world.

Humans are not literal goats, but sometimes they are depicted as goats.

And act like them. Pigs too.

Certainly all have their opinions and interpretations. But I don't see any as being exactly correct. Most will say I am wrong as well. Only time will tell who is right or wrong.

That's true but the Bible is also written to reveal certain things to us in plain words. Unless that man of sin is not that beast, then that beast is that man of sin. Now over in Rev 9 there appears to be half-men half-beasts. And that man of sin will no doubt be a completely senseless nutjob for trying to make war with the Lord Himself. So I suppose there is room for speculation about his physical make up, since some are even suggesting he is Nimrod made to live again. But he certainly isn't a system as some say, because his number is that of a man that will be taken and cast into the lake of fire.

 

[BarneyFife]

The antichrist is not a man, it is a system.

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Beasts are kingdoms, often with prominent men at the head. This seems clear enough as testified by the "two or more witnesses" of Daniel and John in the book of Revelation. No?
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[BarneyFife]

Sounds like a cult to me = scriptually speaking of course

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How does uplifting Scripture suggest cult-like behavior?
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[David in NJ]

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How does uplifting Scripture suggest cult-like behavior?
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i was not referring to the Holy Scriptures

 

[Naomi25]

Jesus is also considered a prince or king. The King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. That is not His spiritual title. That is His earthly role. His spiritual title is Messiah. While the death on the Cross was physical is was the spiritual obedience to God. Being Messiah was the relationship between Son and Father. Jesus was still King while living on earth in the obedient spiritual role as Messiah. Jesus just never physically fulfilled the Kingship while on earth, that He was physically born into, as the son of Mary, a man.

So Daniel phrased it the Prince/King to come. But that role has never been enacted. Even though Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth, Jesus has yet to physically reign as King on the earth. That is the point many leave out of their interpretation of Daniel 9. What if you read the verse like this:

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Who are these people? You all still claim Jesus is King/Prince, even while failing to call it a physical role on physical earth. The on earth part is still coming.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

They are still the people of the Messiah to come. Daniel told you the Messiah was the Prince. Jesus is both Messiah and Prince. These verses declare that fact. Jesus has still to come and fulfill the physical role as King. Many will declare, "not so. Jesus is spiritually king." Does that mean the president is only spiritually president as a spiritual representative, and never has to put in the physical work as President? Jesus is currently not the physical king of the earth, because at the 7th Trumpet it is declared that all kingdoms will physically be placed under Jesus as King. That means Jesus is physically on earth to take over that physical role.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Does the verse have to specifically say that Jesus is physically Prince/King, when it already declares Jesus is Lord and Messiah/Christ? If they are not His kingdoms now, how can you say Jesus is King physically over them? Being King is a physical role like being the President of the US. President and King is not a spiritual title, but a physical role, by a physical human.

Jesus is a physical King through His physical father David. That is not a spiritual title, because David is human and not God the Father. Jesus is Messiah through His Father God, not because of His father David. Jesus is not King because He is God. Jesus is Lord because He is God. So the Prince/King aspect can only be physical through His physical father David.

Ah. Hmmm. Okay. You've sort of hared off in a direction I wasn't really looking. But okay, we can go there.

I think the fundamental issue we have here, is that there is a misunderstanding in how the Kingdom manifests. Just because I believe that scripture teaches that Christ is ruling and reigning now, does not mean I don't see a physical reign...on earth...in the future. I just don't call it the Millennium. I call it the eternal state. We are promised quite clearly that the eternal state will be physical, and that God, and Christ, will dwell with us, ruling over us, and that all will be perfect.

And, it might be very accurate to say that Christ is King because of his ancestry through David, but I must object to the comment that he is not king because he is also God. Anyone who has read the OT knows that by insisting upon a king, the nation of Israel was, to a very real extent, committing idolatry, because they already had a king...that king was God. But they demanded a human king, like all the other nations about them. God gave them that wish, even though it did not serve them well through the years.
Jesus comes by his title of King of Kings in a two-fold manner, and in a way no one versed in biblical history can object to.

 

[ewq1938]

I think the fundamental issue we have here, is that there is a misunderstanding in how the Kingdom manifests. Just because I believe that scripture teaches that Christ is ruling and reigning now, does not mean I don't see a physical reign...on earth...in the future. I just don't call it the Millennium. I call it the eternal state. We are promised quite clearly that the eternal state will be physical, and that God, and Christ, will dwell with us, ruling over us, and that all will be perfect.

And in Premill, Jesus is reigning but not with the rod of iron yet which is a very specific period of time, ruling over the mortal nations not slain at the second coming and yes, scripture promises such a reign over mortals in multiple places namely the end of Rev 2 and 19. We believe the "eternal state" is when the saints become immortal, at the second coming, so it happening earlier than in your view.

 

[Adam]

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So there is a god of this world who opposes Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Hmm and the god of this world performs lying wonders. So here is a question: how can a wonder be a lie? It is a lie if it doesn't really exist.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If that isn't God in 4:4, who is God in this passage that is blinding people?

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Adam]

If that isn't God in 4:4, who is God in this passage that is blinding people?

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

1 John 5:19 ESV
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Matthew 4 KJV
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Mark 8 KJV
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

 

[ewq1938]

1 John 5:19 ESV
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Matthew 4 KJV
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Mark 8 KJV
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

This is avoiding answering what I have presented. Why does John say God blinded people? Aren't the two passages discussing the same thing by the same God?

 

[Adam]

This is avoiding answering what I have presented. Why does John say God blinded people? Aren't the two passages discussing the same thing by the same God?

In a certain sense, all things are brought about by God. For example, Joseph's enslavement.

Genesis 50:20
As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

But God also acts through others. So in one sense, people chose willful ignorance out of pride; in another sense, the Devil deceived them; in another sense, God preordained all of this.

 

[ewq1938]

In a certain sense, all things are brought about by God. For example, Joseph's enslavement.

Genesis 50:20
As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

But God also acts through others. So in one sense, people chose willful ignorance out of pride; in another sense, the Devil deceived them; in another sense, God preordained all of this.

Compare the two passages. I think they are talking about the same God, doing the same thing.


2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


"blinded the minds of them which believe not"

"Therefore they could not believe" "He (God) hath blinded their eyes"

 

[BarneyFife]

i was not referring to the Holy Scriptures

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I don't think that was ever in question.

The post to which you replied posed the question:
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Are these the words and counsel of a cult leader?

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Which was followed by these quotes from Mrs. White:
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In public labor do not make prominent and quote that which Sister White has written as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies.

Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God.

A Thus saith the Lord is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people.

LET NONE BE EDUCATED TO LOOK TO Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White.—

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible.

When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God.

But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what “Sister White said”—“Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that,” and “Sister White said the other thing.”

But say, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel,” and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says. SpM 167.2.
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(All of which seem to urge others to depend only upon the Bible alone as the rule of faith and practice)

To which you replied:
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Sounds like a cult to me = scriptually speaking of course

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As an aside, it seems odd to me that folks are so eager to throw the word "cult" around when the slightest opportunity arises.

And that any loving Christian would want to malign another person who claims to follow Christ.

It is, of course, usually claimed that no offense is intended, and that only the system of worship is being addressed.

But how would these people like it if their own group of people they loved (family, friends, etc.) were characterized by humiliating labels?

The word "cult" has a connotation of gullible, brainwashed individuals.

All are free to speak as they please.

But not all speech is profitable.

And invoking the word "cult" is rarely anything but rank-and-file ad hominem.
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[David in NJ]

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I don't think that was ever in question.

The post to which you replied posed the question:
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Which was followed by these quotes from Mrs. White:
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In public labor do not make prominent and quote that which Sister White has written as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies.

Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God.

A Thus saith the Lord is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people.

LET NONE BE EDUCATED TO LOOK TO Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White.—

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible.

When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God.

But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what “Sister White said”—“Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that,” and “Sister White said the other thing.”

But say, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel,” and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says. SpM 167.2.
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(All of which seem to urge others to depend only upon the Bible alone as the rule of faith and practice)

To which you replied:
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As an aside, it seems odd to me that folks are so eager to throw the word "cult" around when the slightest opportunity arises.

And that any loving Christian would want to malign another person who claims to follow Christ.

It is, of course, usually claimed that no offense is intended, and that only the system of worship is being addressed.

But how would these people like it if their own group of people they loved (family, friends, etc.) were characterized by humiliating labels?

The word "cult" has a connotation of gullible, brainwashed individuals.

All are free to speak as they please.

But not all speech is profitable.

And invoking the word "cult" is rarely anything but rank-and-file ad hominem.
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Peace Friend,

What you said here is the main point:
"It is, of course, usually claimed that no offense is intended, and that only the system of worship is being addressed." = Truth

All cults have their leaders, big or small does not matter. The most prominent being the roman catholic church.

Christ came to set the captives free = which HE did for me being a former rcc member, from birth and thru daily education of it.

Wherever the word of God is preached souls will be saved = for it is God who Justifies and Him alone..........

Barney, be wonderfully Blessed Today in the Love of Christ and thank You for your post that i largely agree with = Peace
AND
Forgive my hasty post by which i offended you.

 

[Adam]

Compare the two passages. I think they are talking about the same God, doing the same thing.


2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


"blinded the minds of them which believe not"

"Therefore they could not believe" "He (God) hath blinded their eyes"

There's a blinding going on, and arguing who is doing the blinding is basically an argument of fate and free will. But what I see as more important in that passage is the worldliness. It is the worldliness that blinds people.

John 14
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

The emphasis on these isn't on god of this world but god of this world. It's a worldly god.

1 Corinthians 15
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The world is contrasted with heaven. You either have your eyes on this world or you have your eyes on God. If you look at this world, you won't be able to see God.

So the original post, my point was - the devil will perform lying wonders to deceive people. The world itself is the lying wonder. The Devil can perform no miracles, the world is his domain, he loves it and doesn't want to change it. He doesn't want you to see the spirit world, he wants you to see only this world.

 

[David in NJ]

There's a blinding going on, and arguing who is doing the blinding is basically an argument of fate and free will. But what I see as more important in that passage is the worldliness. It is the worldliness that blinds people.

John 14
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

The emphasis on these isn't on god of this world but god of this world. It's a worldly god.

1 Corinthians 15
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The world is contrasted with heaven. You either have your eyes on this world or you have your eyes on God. If you look at this world, you won't be able to see God.

So the original post, my point was - the devil will perform lying wonders to deceive people. The world itself is the lying wonder. The Devil can perform no miracles, the world is his domain, he loves it and doesn't want to change it. He doesn't want you to see the spirit world, he wants you to see only this world.

Adam,
In DIRECT line of your Holy Spirit understanding = look at this and be amazed of the Wisdom of God

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world. 17The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.
1 John ch2


Not by chance or coincidence my Friend