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Featured Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by GodsGrace, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

    1 Corinthians 3:8-15

    8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
    9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

    10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
    11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
    13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
    14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
    15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
     
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  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Dead works. Works of the flesh. When compared with holiness this is referred to as "iniquity."

    Notice another place where this is stated.

    2 Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.


    21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
     
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  3. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Please post the verse where it states that dead works are being burned up.

    And what ARE dead works??
     
  4. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    Your own post lists in v 12+13 what is being burnt.
    What are those works? Any that are not done to honour God.
     
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  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Look at verse 12 above. For the master's use...every GOOD work. So then the corrolary to good works are dead works...or ,works of the flesh. There are many other references...

    like..
    Heb. 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Here again we see service to God away from dead works.

    A dead work is one that presents itself as being in accord with God's will...but it's source is from men.
     
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  6. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Here are the verses:

    13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
    14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.


    If we look at verse 13 it clearly states that each man's work will be revealed bby fire. The fire will test the quality.

    But it brings up questions. I believe these verses are very misunderstood...For instance the CC uses them as proof verses for purgatory.

    The questions then become.

    1. Who IS "each man"? verse 13

    2. What does the quality refer to? verse 13

    3. What work is each man building upon? verse 14
     
  7. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    1. Who IS "each man"? verse 13 Literally every man who faces judgement.

    2. What does the quality refer to? verse 13 The motive and methods for doing anything for God.

    3. What work is each man building upon? verse 14 On what Jesus started and the apostles and every other Christian has continued to do. Preach the gospel.
     
  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I hope you aren't doing that "ministry" thing whereby Paul's ministry is being judged...rather than what everyone is doing.

    That is so blatantly false.

    Just compare with 2 Tim. 2. Every man...
     
  9. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hi E

    A dead work is really not how you explained it above.
    Hebrews is a letter that was written to the Jews of Jesus's time.
    Dead works are works of the Law...works done under the Law and not under grace. The Jews were used to doing things to try to please God...that was the Mosaic Covenant,,,not they were under a New Covenant, see Hebrews 9:15-17. This New Covenant was a Covenant of grace...we now have the Holy Spirit to help us keep God's laws --- not that they are abolished.

    But, returning to 1 Corinthians 3:8-15

    Would you say that WE believers are being spoken of here,
    or perhaps the WORKERS for God are being spoken of here?
    WHO are the wise master builders? And WHAT is their work?

    8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
    9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
    10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation,
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    ="GodsGrace, post: 432555, member: 7593"]Hi E

    A dead work is really not how you explained it above.
    Hebrews is a letter that was written to the Jews of Jesus's time.
    Dead works are works of the Law...works done under the Law and not under grace.

    Works of the law are things like circumcision and kosher eating. That is NOT the same as a dead work. I'm afraid you are adding apples with oranges here.

    A dead work is a work done in the power of men that claims to be of God.



    The Jews were used to doing things to try to please God...that was the Mosaic Covenant,,,not they were under a New Covenant, see Hebrews 9:15-17. This New Covenant was a Covenant of grace...we now have the Holy Spirit to help us keep God's laws --- not that they are abolished.

    This is a confusing way of saying things. It is good to try to please God...but it is wrong to claim it is good without God's say so.

    But, returning to 1 Corinthians 3:8-15

    Would you say that WE believers are being spoken of here,

    All believers are building...being EDIFIED...into something.




    or perhaps the WORKERS for God are being spoken of here?

    No difference here on the quality of what is being built...whether a living work of God or a dead work of men.

    WHO are the wise master builders? And WHAT is their work?

    8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
    9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
    10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation,



    This is not what the Bema set judgment is about.

    Check out 2 Tim. 2 :20 which refers to the very same thing...but never mentions if a person is a minister or not. It is every man."


    2 Tim. 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.


    21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


    So that is who is being judged..."a man"...not a minister.

    The saints will be judged with a very high standard. That is what is being described here.
     
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  11. zipzaddle

    zipzaddle Member

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    I believe in the Day of Judgement things in the world which help a Christian learn and which are no longer needed in heaven are burned.
    1Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you...
    Possible view is the tree of knowledge's branches are fuel for the fire.
     
  12. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    2 Timothy 2.....?
    Verse 15 says to be a diligent workman approved by God...
    This speaks to workmen too.

    I'm not sure to what you're referring with the "ministry" thing where Paul's ministry is being judged. I'm NOT referring specifically to this.

    I AM saying that it's speaking about those who minister to God's word and not to US believers.

    Verse 5 states plainly that Paul is speaking about what it means to be of Apollos or of Paul. He says that this is wrong. He says that they are just servants through whom "you believed"....which would be US. Those instructed.

    Verse 8, each [worker] will receive his own reward according to his labor.

    Verse 9 Paul and Apollo (and every other worker) are God's fellow workers.

    WE are God's field, God's building...


    8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
    9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
     
  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    That is what I'm referring to. There was a false teaching about this circulating around that sought to take away responsibility for edification away from believers and make it exclusively the responsibility of workers.

    But that is not the truth. WE are entirely responsible for what we choose to believe and do.

    Remember the excuse..."I was only following orders" as an excuse for atrocities committed.

    But the truth is...the Holy Spirit makes each believer fully responsible for his own growth, behaviour and blamelessness.
     
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  14. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Verse 13 is referring to the workers in verse 5 and 6...Paul and Apollo.
    It's referring to those who build upon what Paul and Apollo began...and what did they begin?
    They laid the foundation which is Christ.
    verse 10 And ANOTHER is building upon it. Bldg upon the foundation which is Christ....and men will CONTINUE to build upon this initial foundation...these men are the ministers of God who "grow" us.

    verse 13 The fire will test the QUALITY OF THE WORK. The WORK of continuing the building upon the foundation which was laid by the ministry workers of God.

    Not all of us preach the gospel. There are specific persons who are REQUIRED to do this...priests, pastors, ministers, missionaries, etc.
    WE are threir work upon which they must build.

    It's THEIR work that will be judged with fire.

    HOW the "man" (ministers) build upon the work (us) will be judged...
    Gold Silver Precious Stones
    Or
    Wood Hay Straw

    The fire will burn these works
    Gold Silver Stones.......do not burn
    Wood Hay Straw..........do burn, but the person himself will be saved.
     
  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    "GodsGrace, post: 432576, member: 7593"]Verse 13 is referring to the workers in verse 5 and 6...Paul and Apollo.
    It's referring to those who build upon what Paul and Apollo began...and what did they begin?
    They laid the foundation which is Christ.
    verse 10 And ANOTHER is building upon it. Bldg upon the foundation which is Christ....and men will CONTINUE to build upon this initial foundation...these men are the ministers of God who "grow" us.

    It is every man that will be judged...not just ministers.

    People are always trying to find an excuse for their sins. Adam said it was Eve's fault...And Eve blamed the serpent. But who did the eating?



    verse 13 The fire will test the QUALITY OF THE WORK. The WORK of continuing the building upon the foundation which was laid by the ministry workers of God.

    Compare that idea with 2 Tim. 2:20. It is the responsibility of every person to see what is being built (edified).

    Not all of us preach the gospel. There are specific persons who are REQUIRED to do this...priests, pastors, ministers, missionaries, etc.
    WE are threir work upon which they must build.

    A teacher will have a harder judgment...but a person who believes a lie is responsible for that.


    It's THEIR work that will be judged with fire.

    HOW the "man" (ministers) build upon the work (us) will be judged...
    Gold Silver Precious Stones
    Or
    Wood Hay Straw

    The fire will burn these works
    Gold Silver Stones.......do not burn
    Wood Hay Straw..........do burn, but the person himself will be saved.

    I hope you reconsider this doctrine...which is speaking of ALL who are in Christ.
     
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  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to derail my own thread.
    What you mentioned above are works of the law,,,Paul said they are DEAD works because they do not save but are only ritual. This is the part of the law that Jesus DID come to abolish.

    What work is in the "power of man" that claims to be of God?
    Every work we can do is within our power.



    Confusing? Would you want to tell us the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant if you believe my way is confusing?

    You mean every time you do something good, you get God's approval first? God approves of all good works...you don't have to wait for His approval !





    OK. This is your opinion.



    I have no reply for you. This is not what this thread is about.
    However, if there is no difference is quality,,,why is gold being spoken of and why is straw being spoken of?




    I'm not discussing the Berma Seat of Christ.
    I'm not discussing 2 Timothy 2:20 and 21.
     
  17. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    But this is not what we're discussing here.
     
  18. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is NOT a doctrine.
    This is exegesis.
    Do you suppose these verses in 1 Corinthians refer to purgatory?
    Catholics do.
    Exegesis is important...it helps us to understand what we're reading.
     
  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    "I'm not discussing the Berma Seat of Christ.
    I'm not discussing 2 Timothy 2:20 and 21."

    You aren't seeing that the word interprets the word. Indeed the bible interprets itself. You need to look at other verses to get the whole meaning.

    So then if you are not sure about the Bema seat judgment described in 1 Cor. 3....we simply go to another place where the very same thing is being described.

    2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


    Who are the "them" and the "every one" referred to here? Is it reasonable to say that this means only ministers?



    20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.


    Here we see the same rewards and losses as 1 Cor.3 ...Is this a coincidence? or does the bible speak of the same things more than once for clarity's sake?


    21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    Is the above bolded words in v. 21 "a man"...mean only ministers? Are other believers not also men?



    So also in 1 Cor. 3...it is "every man" who builds on the foundation which is Christ. Look at 2 Pet. 1 to see that they who do not add to their faiths have become blind...they themselves...not their ministers...etc
     
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  20. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Amen , Excellent...very clear.

    Heart ❤️ motivation is everything....
     
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