Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

[BobRyan]

Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1. The text never says that "a person" is burning.
2. The text says that the person's "work" is burning.
3. The "Master builders" ... the "workmen" are said to be "building the church with doctrine"

Conclusion. The doctrine is burning - bad doctrine removed as chaff...

 

[BobRyan]

This is NOT a doctrine.
This is exegesis.
Do you suppose these verses in 1 Corinthians refer to purgatory?
Catholics do.

Nothing about "the person burning" in 1 Cor 3... nothing about purgatory... nothing about "sins burning" and nothing about "delayed temporal punishment for sin" in 1Cor 3... and nothing about a "spiritual bank of suffering" or "praying for the dead" or "asking for the merits and sufferings of others to be applied to the one whose doctrine is burned away" in 1 Cor 3.

So then... no purgatory in 1Cor 3

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The Refiner's fire is burning up the dead works which are unrepentant iniquities that deny Him, but the foundation remains because it was laid by Jesus Christ.

But because of unrepentant iniquities, it is considered as defiling the temple of God where the Holy Spirit dwells which is our physical bodies ( 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 , and death is the destroying of that physical bodies 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 , but the spirit is still saved as verse 15 declares.

So when you read the warning to the church at Thyatira, those who do not repent, shall be judged by their works which is death. The day God judges His House 1 Peter 4:17-19 is that same day mentioned in verse 13 above per your reference.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So those saints, and even former believers left behind as cast into the bed of the great tribulation are still saved. They were denied attendance to the Marriage Supper because of still being workers of iniquity at the time the Bridegroom had come, but that foundation remains just as that seal of adoption remains also. The prodigal son may miss out on his first inheritance for wild living, but although he can never get it back, he is still son.

 

[lforrest]

I figured it meant any work that has eternal value. If the value doesn't last longer than this earth, it will be burned up with the earth. Labors for the Kingdom are the ones that last.

Labors for the kingdom would include generosity as well, even though the gift doesn't last forever God will remember and perhaps the recipient as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nothing about "the person burning" in 1 Cor 3... nothing about purgatory... nothing about "sins burning" and nothing about "delayed temporal punishment for sin" in 1Cor 3... and nothing about a "spiritual bank of suffering" or "praying for the dead" or "asking for the merits and sufferings of others to be applied to the one whose doctrine is burned away" in 1 Cor 3.

So then... not purgatory in 1Cor 3

Hi BR,
So far you're the only one that agrees with me.

I mentioned purgatory because catholics use 1 Corinthians 3:15 as a proof test for it.

We protestants also don't seem to understand it. I hear many times that OUR works are being burned up because they're not correct works or something or other.

When I mention that the verses are speaking about teachers, ministers, etc. I always get an argument. It even says "God's fellow workers". Verse 9.

Why would OUR WORKS gets burned up? God appreciates every and any work we can do...and I wouldn't call iniquity a "work"...it's a sin.
Jesus covers for those.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

A dead work is really not how you explained it above.
Hebrews is a letter that was written to the Jews of Jesus's time.
Dead works are works of the Law...works done under the Law and not under grace. The Jews were used to doing things to try to please God...that was the Mosaic Covenant, not they were under a New Covenant, see Hebrews 9:15-17. This New Covenant was a Covenant of grace...we now have the Holy Spirit to help us keep God's laws --- not that they are abolished.

But, returning to 1 Corinthians 3:8-15

Would you say that WE believers are being spoken of here

Greetings, GodsGrace!

Until now I would not have made a distinction between dead works and what is described here in 1 Corinthians, but I suppose it is indeed possible that the expression could be limited to works of the Law.

But in answering your question, the works described in 1st Corinthians 8:13-15 most specifically refer to any work done that supposedly builds up the church, i.e. the body of Christ, yet not on the foundation of Christ Himself. What was happening in Corinth at the time was that there were leaders trying to rise up who were making more of themselves than Him, and thereby causing division. They were saying, "I am of Apollos," and "I am of Paul," which was a way to distinguish who they were disciples of in the same self-glorifying sense that students of the Greek philosophers were in doing, and their religious pride was leading to serious problems (hence Paul's use of the expression "puffed up" more than once). This is why Paul went to great lengths in this letter to make himself out to be nothing, because they were making themselves out to be something great in comparison with others (1 Corinthians 3:5-7, 1 Corinthians 3:18, 1 Corinthians 4:10-14). But because they were causing divisions in this church by separating themselves into various groups and not even taking communion together (1 Corinthians 11:19-21), they were essentially destroying God's temple (1 Corinthians 3:16-17), so he was warning them that judgment was coming if they continued to sow division in Christ's body. By trying to build it up with hay and straw rather than gold and silver, they were building that which would burn up in the judgment of God. If dead works is not the expression to use, I would classify them as works that were not truly building His church.

Btw, the notion that this passage was referring to the coming judgment on "the Day of the Lord" is mistaken. The "day" referred here to was coming much quicker for believers back then. It had already come for many of them, for many had fallen sick and many had already died as a result of bringing division to the body of Christ there (1 Corinthians 11:29-34). This is because the Lord was not playing around back in NT times. His Presence was much closer to the church then than now, and He was very serious about how they were conducting themselves. Those who were corrupting His body were often dying as a result (Acts 5:1-11).

Blessings in Christ.
Hidden In Him

 

[brakelite]

Dead works are works of the Law...works done under the Law and not under grace.

You need to be very careful here in accusing people, both past and present, of offering their works for justification. You are completely writing off all those Christians who out of love for God and respect for the law choose to obey and do so by the power of the holy Spirit and to the glory of God.
And not to be too specific, everything that is burned up is your bad character. And this is accomplished in this life, so that by the time of the second coming, you, along with all others who have been sanctified by the truth, make up a church that is presented to the Bridegroom without blemish and without spot.

 

[brakelite]

Do you suppose these verses in 1 Corinthians refer to purgatory?

Absolutely not. John the Baptist said Jesus would baptise with fire. It is a cleansing fire that perfects us that we shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use. It is for this life that we are to be used by the Master. Jesus told the Laodiceans, buy gold tried in the fire. That gold is good character. There is a judgement progressing right now among God's people preparing them for service. Judgement begins in the house of God. The fire that burns away the dross and bad habits, attitudes, and addictions that drag down God's people is a cleansing fire...like the fire that burns through a forest after which there is growth and health. The fire spoken of in this context is not about punishment and rewards. Its about consecration, discipline, and holiness.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi BR,
So far you're the only one that agrees with me.

I mentioned purgatory because catholics use 1 Corinthians 3:15 as a proof test for it.

We protestants also don't seem to understand it. I hear many times that OUR works are being burned up because they're not correct works or something or other.

When I mention that the verses are speaking about teachers, ministers, etc. I always get an argument. It even says "God's fellow workers". Verse 9.

Why would OUR WORKS gets burned up? God appreciates every and any work we can do...and I wouldn't call iniquity a "work"...it's a sin.
Jesus covers for those.

Iniquity is a special kind of sin...a sin committed by believers who mix in flesh with the Spirit.

Jesus covers this sin, yes...IF it is repented of.

We soil our holy garments with the flesh...so that they become filthy. Baby Christians do this unwittingly...but one must "grow out" of doing so unless it become iniquity ...which we are exhorted to depart from.

Zech 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Here Joshua (the high priest) is treated with leniency since he lacked understanding of the severity of presenting himself before the Lord with filthy garments. God's mercy was shown in giving him new garments.

 

[faithfulness]

Absolutely not. John the Baptist said Jesus would baptise with fire. It is a cleansing fire that perfects us that we shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use. It is for this life that we are to be used by the Master. Jesus told the Laodiceans, buy gold tried in the fire. That gold is good character. There is a judgement progressing right now among God's people preparing them for service. Judgement begins in the house of God. The fire that burns away the dross and bad habits, attitudes, and addictions that drag down God's people is a cleansing fire...like the fire that burns through a forest after which there is growth and health. The fire spoken of in this context is not about punishment and rewards. Its about consecration, discipline, and holiness.

You have inherited the Divine Nature 2Peter1:4, now screw your attention down and form habits, give diligence, concentrate.
"Abide in Me"--in intellectual matters, in money matters; determine to abide in Jesus wherever you are placed.
Oswald Chambers, My Utmost for His Highest 6:15

2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I figured it meant any work that has eternal value. If the value doesn't last longer than this earth, it will be burned up with the earth. Labors for the Kingdom are the ones that last.

Labors for the kingdom would include generosity as well, even though the gift doesn't last forever God will remember and perhaps the recipient as well.

Not sure how that would apply to verses 16-17 which is a part of that passage in reading.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Seems to me any works of the flesh ( and heresy is one ) is any unrepentant iniquity that is defiling the temple of God for which the wages of sin is death; physical death which is the destruction of the body.

So I would say the wood, stubble, and hay that defiles the temple of God are works of the flesh that the believer did not repent from when the Bridegroom had finally come. This would also apply to believers that had died in unrepentant iniquity for which they would not be resurrected at that time in meeting the Lord in the air, but they will meet the Lord as King of kings later on earth.

 

[BobRyan]

GodsGrace said: ↑
Dead works are works of the Law...works done under the Law and not under grace.

You need to be very careful here in accusing people, both past and present, of offering their works for justification. You are completely writing off all those Christians who out of love for God and respect for the law choose to obey and do so by the power of the holy Spirit and to the glory of God.
And not to be too specific, everything that is burned up is your bad character. And this is accomplished in this life, so that by the time of the second coming, you, along with all others who have been sanctified by the truth, make up a church that is presented to the Bridegroom without blemish and without spot.

Nothing in 1 Cor 3 is dealing with bad character -- only doctrine that is "hay stubble straw" being removed from the church.
There are works done outside of the Gospel and works done within it -- Dead works are those that are done outside of the Gospel - a Christless form

 

[BobRyan]

Iniquity is a special kind of sin...a sin committed by believers who mix in flesh with the Spirit.

Paul is not talking about being wicked as a Christian in 1 Cor 3 -- rather he is talking about the idea that some well-meaning pastors/evangelists may in fact be teaching a doctrine that is not all true.

 

[Episkopos]

Paul is not talking about being wicked as a Christian in 1 Cor 3 -- rather he is talking about the idea that some well-meaning pastors/evangelists may in fact be teaching a doctrine that is not all true.

Bad doctrine leads to bad character and behaviour. Bad doctrine isn't true or real....so there is nothing there to burn. It is the effects that bad doctrines have that are the problem.

Paul is speaking of works of iniquity. As in...filthy garments. We have to keep our garments clean or else we will be naked.

Rev. 16:15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

We will all be judged by our works...not our doctrines. Although false teaching will be judged as bad character on our part. We will be judged if we spread lies.

 

[Episkopos]

Nothing in 1 Cor 3 is dealing with bad character -- only doctrine that is "hay stubble straw" being removed from the church.
There are works done outside of the Gospel and works done within it -- Dead works are those that are done outside of the Gospel - a Christless form

Works in and out of the gospel? We will be judged..we Christians...by our works. This is called the BEMA judgment seat of Christ. Where every WORK will be evaluated....which includes our words.

2 Cor. 5:9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

 

[charity]

Hello there,
The foundation is Christ and the building must be of Christ, anything less than what springs from the finished work of Christ is wood, hay and stubble.

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head,
Chris

 

[Episkopos]

Hello there,
The foundation is Christ and the building must be of Christ, anything less than what springs from the finished work of Christ is wood, hay and stubble.

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head,
Chris

Amen. And this for all believers....not just ministers.

 

[faithfulness]

Bad doctrine leads to bad character and behaviour. Bad doctrine isn't true or real....so there is nothing there to burn. It is the effects that bad doctrines have that are the problem.

Paul is speaking of works of iniquity. As in...filthy garments. We have to keep our garments clean or else we will be naked.

Rev. 16:15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

We will all be judged by our works...not our doctrines. Although false teaching will be judged as bad character on our part. We will be judged if we spread lies.

Thank you, Lord.

 

[bbyrd009]

I hear many times that OUR works are being burned up because they're not correct works or something or other.

Why would OUR WORKS gets burned up? God appreciates every and any work we can do...and I wouldn't call iniquity a "work"...it's a sin.

For we must all appear before the tribunal of Christ, so that each may be repaid for what he has done in the body, whether good or worthless.

 

[Nancy]

Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Hi @GodsGrace! Nice to see you on here again ♥

When I read "11 For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.", --->I think of: Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. He gives us opportunity after opportunity to serve Him through loving others. As far as works being burnt up, and the person themselves still saved...IMHO-the works that are burnt up are those done in the flesh, or, to receive the glory from men. I like to say "never seek a crown for yourselves" as He rewards in public those who serve others through Him without fanfare. One of my constant prayers is to see others through His eyes and, to let His desires become a reality in my life. I am not at all who I once was. He truly has changed me in these ways. So, if any good works I do, come from my heart because I DESIRE His will...these are satisfying in their own right. If it is an "obligation" then it is IMHO, not His works...♥ Just my $1.00