Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

[Helen]

Why would OUR WORKS gets burned up? God appreciates every and any work we can do...

Simple...any work that "we" do...because we think it was a "good idea"...but it was not spoken to us by God...is "our works" not His.

I'm my circle of friends we call this an "Ishmael " work.
Ishmael was NOT a work of God...it was not directed by God...it was a work of the flesh by Abraham to get the promise...to "help God out".

How many of us have done 'good works' for God, believing it would be pleasing ...yet we did not do it "by the hearing of the ear"...therefore it was not a work of faith...

So many ( what I call ) legalists "Do so they get".
"If I do this, God will be pleased and I'll get brownie points in heaven for my good works ".

Only that which we hear in the ear and are directed to do via the Holy Spirit will count in God's eyes.
We will be weighed by the true intent of our hearts...

 

[Helen]

Hello there,
The foundation is Christ and the building must be of Christ, anything less than what springs from the finished work of Christ is wood, hay and stubble.

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head,
Chris

YES!
Short and very much to the point. :)

 

[aspen]

Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

False self

 

[GodsGrace]

False self

No Aspen.
But I'm not on a computer....
Please read again .... Will discuss tomorrow.

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Matter can be changed to energy... m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)
Energy can be changed to matter... E/c2 (energy)= m (matter)

E/c2 is eternal stuff, and to her properties what we call 15 trillion years is a mere blink of the eye. Who knows how many times the plasma has been turned to mass and the mass to plasma? It is not a hard thing for God to dis-associate the mass of the universe into energy and light and then re-associate the energy and light back into matter. As a 'matter' of fact...

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

God is going to change all mass back into the plasma energy (fire) from whence it was forged... And he will do something else with it!

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. - Isaiah 65:17

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. - Revelation 19:7-9

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. - Mark 14:25

The mass awaits its disassociation! It will soon test the work of man to see what remains! It will soon become something else! If our works be of Christian works it will stand the test of the fire!

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe in the Day of Judgement things in the world which help a Christian learn and which are no longer needed in heaven are burned.
1Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you...
Possible view is the tree of knowledge's branches are fuel for the fire.

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil surely no longer exists...if we want to say it will be burned, or be fuel for the fire, I'm OK with that. Everything will be burned in the end since it will no longer be need, as you've correctly stated. Even faith will no longer be necessary, even hope. Love will continue forever.

1 Peter 4:12
Is the fiery trial here or in heaven?
The fiery trial is here.
Peter is telling us that whatever trial we are going through here, we should not believe that God is ignoring us or doesn't care. Instead it is God's wisdom that allows us to go through trials, just like Christ did, so that we can become ever better in our spiritual life --- leaning to depend on Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

"I'm not discussing the Berma Seat of Christ.
I'm not discussing 2 Timothy 2:20 and 21."

You aren't seeing that the word interprets the word. Indeed the bible interprets itself. You need to look at other verses to get the whole meaning.

So then if you are not sure about the Bema seat judgment described in 1 Cor. 3....we simply go to another place where the very same thing is being described.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Who are the "them" and the "every one" referred to here? Is it reasonable to say that this means only ministers?


20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Here we see the same rewards and losses as 1 Cor.3 ...Is this a coincidence? or does the bible speak of the same things more than once for clarity's sake?


21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Is the above bolded words in v. 21 "a man"...mean only ministers? Are other believers not also men?


So also in 1 Cor. 3...it is "every man" who builds on the foundation which is Christ. Look at 2 Pet. 1 to see that they who do not add to their faiths have become blind...they themselves...not their ministers...etc

Hi E,
I agree with you that the bible explains itself and sometimes it's good to go to other verses to understand scripture being studied.

There are many cases when this is not necessary because the passage is so clear. This is one of those cases and I find too many read through too quickly.

1 Corinthians 3:5
5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.

In the above verse it's obvious that Paul is speaking about Servants of God through whom the listeners believed. He was a servant of God, Apollo was a servant of God.

3:6
6I planted, Apollos watered,

Again, Paul is speaking about himself and Apollos. One watered and one planted, they are servants of God.

3:8
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Paul is still speaking about the one who waters and the one who plants...
Himself and Apollos, and each one will receive his own reward.
Who is receiving the reward for their own work?
Paul and Apollos.

1 Corinthians 3:5-15 is speaking about the work that servants of God do...NOT US. Not each of us, but those who are fellow workers with God;
ministers, pastors, preachers, priests, missionaries, etc.

Each man's work in verse 13 is referring to the servants of God.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi E,
I agree with you that the bible explains itself and sometimes it's good to go to other verses to understand scripture being studied.

There are many cases when this is not necessary because the passage is so clear. This is one of those cases and I find too many read through too quickly.

1 Corinthians 3:5
5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.

In the above verse it's obvious that Paul is speaking about Servants of God through whom the listeners believed. He was a servant of God, Apollo was a servant of God.

3:6
6I planted, Apollos watered,

Again, Paul is speaking about himself and Apollos. One watered and one planted, they are servants of God.

3:8
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Paul is still speaking about the one who waters and the one who plants...
Himself and Apollos, and each one will receive his own reward.
Who is receiving the reward for their own work?
Paul and Apollos.

1 Corinthians 3:5-15 is speaking about the work that servants of God do...NOT US. Not each of us, but those who are fellow workers with God;
ministers, pastors, preachers, priests, missionaries, etc.

Each man's work in verse 13 is referring to the servants of God.

I appreciate your patience! :)

But it goes more like this.....

Paul says...

I planted (He wrote the epistles we read) Apollos watered (Imagine him reading to us and explaining what Paul meant)...but it is God that gives the increase...

So then...Now be careful what you do with what Paul planted and Apollos watered ...because every man shall give an account before God for what He has done. We all build.

"I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon."

Every man is not Appolos. It is all of us who hear the word.

The bible translates the bible. We know that many hear but few DO. We know that not just hearers but doers are justified.

There is nothing here about who is doing the preaching.

So unless there are other verses that say the same thing...you can't make a case. (On the witness of 2 or 3)

But I have shown that 2 Tim. 2 is speaking of the same judgment...gold, silver, wood, hay... yet there is no mention there of the responsibility put only on ministers...it is all men again.

So we have to go with that.

I have had this discussion on a few occasions...and each time have successfully shown that the bible sometimes puts ideas in close proximity but without there being something exclusive about it. We only have to see if the same pattern is repeated elsewhere.
I have no agenda here...but just to understand the text.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is another clue...

2 Pet. 3:16 "He (Paul) writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Here ignorant means "unlearned" , and unstable means "unfixed...(as in) having no direction"

So who then is the one held responsible for distorting the message? Paul as the preacher or teacher? Or are we all responsible for what we do with what we hear?

We see that getting the message wrong leads to our own destruction. Sure, a false teacher will be responsible for his part. But we all have the words from Paul...which are from God...to get right or not. No one is going to blame the bible for us getting it wrong.

The judgment with what we do with the word is on each of us...just like in the parable of the sower. Same seed...very different results.

 

[Episkopos]

Simple...any work that "we" do...because we think it was a "good idea"...but it was not spoken to us by God...is "our works" not His.

I'm my circle of friends we call this an "Ishmael " work.
Ishmael was NOT a work of God...it was not directed by God...it was a work of the flesh by Abraham to get the promise...to "help God out".

How many of us have done 'good works' for God, believing it would be pleasing ...yet we did not do it "by the hearing of the ear"...therefore it was not a work of faith...

So many ( what I call ) legalists "Do so they get".
"If I do this, God will be pleased and I'll get brownie points in heaven for my good works ".

Only that which we hear in the ear and are directed to do via the Holy Spirit will count in God's eyes.
We will be weighed by the true intent of our hearts...

Same here We call it "doing an Ishmeal." ;)

 

[aspen]

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil surely no longer exists...if we want to say it will be burned, or be fuel for the fire, I'm OK with that. Everything will be burned in the end since it will no longer be need, as you've correctly stated. Even faith will no longer be necessary, even hope. Love will continue forever.

1 Peter 4:12
Is the fiery trial here or in heaven?
The fiery trial is here.
Peter is telling us that whatever trial we are going through here, we should not believe that God is ignoring us or doesn't care. Instead it is God's wisdom that allows us to go through trials, just like Christ did, so that we can become ever better in our spiritual life --- leaning to depend on Him.

Sure it still exists.....we eat of it’s posionous fruit every time we choose to label God’s Good creation as good or evil instead of exercising love and gratitude. We are called to eat from the Tree of Life, which is Christ and leave the judging to Him

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure it still exists.....we eat of it’s posionous fruit every time we choose to label God’s Good creation as good or evil instead of exercising love and gratitude. We are called to eat from the Tree of Life, which is Christ and leave the judging to Him

Is this a church teaching??
Metaphorically what you say is correct.

But the Tree of G and E was put in the Garden,,,for what reason exactly we do not know. Perhaps so God could give we humans a chance to freely choose not to accept evil?

We have now, through our ancestor, eaten of the tree of the knowledge.
Whereas before they knew only the good, after they knew also the evil, and thus evil entered into the world system.

Evil is now with us and the tree is no longer necessary. We each, INDEPENDENTLY, do not have to eat of it since evil is already a part of us via our sin nature.

Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

 

[Helen]

Sure it still exists.....we eat of it’s posionous fruit every time we choose to label God’s Good creation as good or evil instead of exercising love and gratitude. We are called to eat from the Tree of Life, which is Christ and leave the judging to Him

Good one Aspen. :)

I often say...God is not interested in right or wrong. ( that tree)
God is interested in Life or death...

So many people are interested in what is right or what is wrong..
Not to many weigh " What brings LIFE "into the dead situation.

 

[Episkopos]

And the final word goes to Jesus...of course! :)

Concerning the parable of the sower...

Luke 8:18 Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.”

...yet he will be saved as by fire...

The responsibility is on the hearer.

Some will receive a reward and some will suffer loss. All this is referenced in 1 Cor. 3...the Bema judgment of Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Good one Aspen. :)

I often say...God is not interested in right or wrong. ( that tree)
God is interested in Life or death...

So many people are interested in what is right or what is wrong..
Not to many weigh " What brings LIFE "into the dead situation.

Great post!

Actually...how much of modern Christianity is just to sort out the good from the evil?...from the same dead tree. Religion does this.

But true Christianity is to abandon both good and evil...to enter into life.

The Pharisees saw others doing evil and judged them. But the good they were doing was from the same tree. So they had the same source. By judging others then they were judging themselves.

Jesus called them hypocrites. These men claimed to understand things.....yet they ignored the tree of life...who is Christ our Lord.

 

[GodsGrace]

I appreciate your patience! :)

But it goes more like this.....

Paul says...

I planted (He wrote the epistles we read) Apollos watered (Imagine him reading to us and explaining what Paul meant)...but it is God that gives the increase...

So then...Now be careful what you do with what Paul planted and Apollos watered ...because every man shall give an account before God for what He has done. We all build.

"I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon."

Every man is not Appolos. It is all of us who hear the word.

The bible translates the bible. We know that many hear but few DO. We know that not just hearers but doers are justified.

There is nothing here about who is doing the preaching.

So unless there are other verses that say the same thing...you can't make a case. (On the witness of 2 or 3)

But I have shown that 2 Tim. 2 is speaking of the same judgment...gold, silver, wood, hay... yet there is no mention there of the responsibility put only on ministers...it is all men again.

So we have to go with that.

I have had this discussion on a few occasions...and each time have successfully shown that the bible sometimes puts ideas in close proximity but without there being something exclusive about it. We only have to see if the same pattern is repeated elsewhere.
I have no agenda here...but just to understand the text.

Of course we are all responsible for our own works.
But teachers will be held to a higher standard...because others are in their care.
James 3:1
1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

And James takes this even further and says that every word that comes out of our mouth can be for the cause of good or evil....every word that a teacher speaks is of great importance.
James 3:2-5
2For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.3Now if we put the bits into the horses’ mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their entire body as well. 4Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. 5So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yetit boasts of great things.

See verse 9... 1 corinthians 3:9
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Paul says WE are God's field, in which he and Apollos are working...
WE are God's building, as seconded by verse 16 which states that we are a temple of God.

Verse 10 PAUL is the wise master builder. He laid the foundation, another is builiding upon it.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

Paul laid the foundation as a master builder, another will build upon it, but EACH MAN must be careful HOW HE BUILDS ON IT.

The above verses are plainly speaking about who laid the foundation and who builds upon it and how THEY must be careful how they build.

Could you post one verse that makes it seem that WE are being spoken of instead of how we are BEING BUILT UPON?

 

[GodsGrace]

And the final word goes to Jesus...of course! :)

Concerning the parable of the sower...

Luke 8:18 Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.”

...yet he will be saved as by fire...

The responsibility is on the hearer.

Some will receive a reward and some will suffer loss. All this is referenced in 1 Cor. 3...the Bema judgment of Christ.

Where does it say in Luke 8:18 and forward that "yet he will be saved as by fire".

That is your wording.

 

[aspen]

Is this a church teaching??
Metaphorically what you say is correct.

But the Tree of G and E was put in the Garden,,,for what reason exactly we do not know. Perhaps so God could give we humans a chance to freely choose not to accept evil?

We have now, through our ancestor, eaten of the tree of the knowledge.
Whereas before they knew only the good, after they knew also the evil, and thus evil entered into the world system.

Evil is now with us and the tree is no longer necessary. We each, INDEPENDENTLY, do not have to eat of it since evil is already a part of us via our sin nature.

Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

But don’t you see?

There is no knowledge involved.

Every part of creation is Good - God declared it so

We are the ones who created this distorted perception of creation - we warp it into so many different abominations with our intrigue and drama and negative opinion. Instead of loving others as we were created to do.....we reject the Garden relationship with God, which is the original reason for our existence! Instead of boring, and difficult love (it use to be 2nd nature and totally fulfilling), we, like every 6th grade girl choose gossip, salaciousness, and tearing down our neighbor.

Stranger seems to think he has the right to hate who he wants.....perfect example of going off script. We are either sanctified for Heaven of Hell based on who we serve - our opinion or God’s law. Dualism is our curse

And if it is not spelled out in Church doctrine.....it should be clarified

 

[Stranger]

But don’t you see?

There is no knowledge involved.

Every part of creation is Good - God declared it so

We are the ones who created this distorted perception of creation - we warp it into so many different abominations with our intrigue and drama and negative opinion. Instead of loving others as we were created to do.....we reject the Garden relationship with God, which is the original reason for our existence! Instead of boring, and difficult love (it used to be 2nd nature and totally fulfilling), we, like every 6th grade girl choose gossip, salacious, and tearing down our neighbor.

Stranger seems to think he has the right to hate who he wants.....perfect example of going off script. We are either sanctified for Heaven of Hell based on who we serve - our opin or God’s law. Dualism is our curse

And if it is not spelled out in Church doctrine.....it should be clarified

I do see...no knowledge involved....you're post is the perfect example.

What do you base this claim that I think I have the right to hate who I want?

Stranger

 

[Episkopos]

Where does it say in Luke 8:18 and forward that "yet he will be saved as by fire".

That is your wording.

Of course...but the theme is ever present...some will have increase and others will have loss. That's a kingdom thing.

How does one lose everything? In the judgment of fire.

Mark 9:49 “For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt."