Who really created the Son of God?

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Wrangler

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Does this mean that everyone is God?

1 John 4:15

Contemporary English Version

15 God stays one with everyone who openly says Jesus is the Son of God. This is how we stay one with God
 

GodsGrace

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Or we insert beliefs that are not there and deceive ourselves.
Old story GH.
Some bibles actually say YAWEH.
Looks like God still has His name.
Looks like man cannot change God or His name.

You also keep posting incorrect information about church history.
I'm tired of debating this with you.

You also keep stating that there are two Gods.
Gosh...even the heretics on here don't believe this.

Maybe YOU are being deceived?
Maybe you went to the wrong theology university?
You shoulda picked one that taught Christianity.
 

GodsGrace

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Does this mean that everyone is God?

1 John 4:15​

Contemporary English Version​

15 God stays one with everyone who openly says Jesus is the Son of God. This is how we stay one with God
How many versions did you go through, online, to get that one distorted version you posted?

You want to dumb down scripture?

Let's see what THE MESSAGE has to say about your verse....

1 John 4:15
13-16 This is how we know we’re living steadily and deeply in him, and he in us: He’s given us life from his life, from his very own Spirit. Also, we’ve seen for ourselves and continue to state openly that the Father sent his Son as Savior of the world. Everyone who confesses that Jesus is God’s Son participates continuously in an intimate relationship with God. We know it so well, we’ve embraced it heart and soul, this love that comes from God.



Even THE MESSAGE got it right.
Those that CONFESS that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD participate in an intimate relationship with GOD.

THE SON
THE SON OF GOD
THE 2ND PERSON OF THE TRINITY
 

JLB

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LOL No suggestion of the Son of God.

‘So you believe Moses saw God the Father?

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD is God the Father?


  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6
 

Justified

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I explained that very thoroughly......Yehweh's name is no longer in the Old Testament.
You made the claim, yes, but your claim isn’t really factual.

Sitting next each other, not one God and not sitting on each other's lap LOL
Why should them being one God necessitate sitting on each other’s lap? Jesus is both God and man; the Father is spirit.


Yeshua plus the Holy Spirit....does not suggest 1
It cannot be otherwise.


Two different Gods talking to each other....does not suggest one.
Yet, it cannot be otherwise.


They refer to each other, does not suggest one.
Again, it cannot be otherwise.


the doctrine of the Trinity teaches does not teach the truth about 3 Gods.
That’s because there aren’t three Gods. As I pointed out, God, Jesus, Paul, James, and Jude all say there is only one God. Shouldn’t we stick to what they all say, which is the consistent message throughout the entire Bible?


Old Testament references are true because there is one God in the Old Testament.....no mention of Yeshua.
Or would you call him the Son of God in the Old Testament.
If the OT references are true, then your position is false. If the NT references are true, then your position is false.

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called godsin heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
 

Wrangler

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How many versions did you go through, online, to get that one distorted version you posted?
1:1.

I actually get a verse of that translation everyday. That happened to be today’s verse. Other than attack the translation, care to answer the question? If Jesus being one with God makes him God does us being one with God make us God? If not, why not?
 

JustMe

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Jesus is referred to as the 2nd or last Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:45, which states, "So it is written: 'The first man Adam became a living being'; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit".
So you have one who represents the physical man who past down sin to all and one God/man who offered spiritual life by the washing away of man's sin by His blood sacrifice. Only God can take away the sins of the world. Jesus did that! A mere man could not do that - nor an angel? One would have to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent to do that.
Well, the scripture is spot on and there's more. However, I would not attach the concept of a not-supported god-man to this scripture and who forgives sin or who is a mere man at this stage though. It would cloud the topic very quickly.

Here's a quick primer on the subject of the second man/last Adam. It does though strongly suggest that Yeshua had to be created by the Father via his own word/Spirit, even if this is said within the words of scripture already.

----------------------------------
“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
(1 Corinthians 15:45)

The word First means:

preceding or ahead of any others in order; or occurring before any others in a series

The word Second means:

coming after the first in a series; or additional to, repeating, or following one that came before or was previously mentioned

The Timeline Determining When:

The expression “this day” narrows the “Christ” (the anointed) being begotten (born/made) to a fixed point in time after the creation:

(Psalm 2:7) – I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. At his baptism/anointing.

(Hebrews 1:5) – For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

(Genesis 1:5) – And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Before Genesis 1:5 (the first day), there was no such thing as a day!

Christ was begotten of a woman (Mary) at a fixed point in time and that point in time was after the first day, the day of his conception was when he was “made of a woman”?

Some try to argue Adam was made and Christ was begotten, as though one should cancel out the other, but they don’t.

Both are correct: Yeshua, God’s only Son was birthed/begotten (made of a woman – Galatians 4:4) and was made like any human in every way (in all things -Hebrews 2:17) and being such we are his brethren.

(Galatians 4:4) – But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

(Hebrews 2:17) – Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Furthermore, Christ had to have come after Adam. The Bible makes this very clear:

(1 Corinthians 15:45-47) – And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

For Yeshua to be both “the last Adam” and the “second man” he cannot have existed before Adam without making nonsense out of this scripture.

The idea that human beings are pre-existent spirits imprisoned in bodies is called Gnostic.

The rule of scripture for human beings sets forth the following order:

(1 Corinthians 15:46) – Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Just as Yeshua first bore the image of the earthly (a natural human body) and then at his resurrection was given a spiritual body (a glorified human body that is incorruptible) – so shall we!

To reverse the effects of what Adam had done, Yeshua was made the equivalent of Adam before Adam sinned (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6). In doing this, Yeshua, by his obedience became sinless, never once falling short of the glory of his God, and by his overcoming all temptation to sin, thereby condemned sin, and through this means his God and Father could be found just, and yet at the same time the justifier of the sinner. (Romans 3:23, 26; Romans 8:3, 32, 33; John 16:33; Hebrews 2:9; Hebrews 4:15; Revelation 3:21)

But we have exalted Yeshua (a man) to the glory that belongs solely to the Most High (God), which in effect meant that for Adam (a man) to have obeyed the Most High (God), Adam would have needed to have been the Most High. [For if Jesus was God, then it was God who was sinless not man]

Yeshua pre-existed (as did you and I) only in the plan of God, in his counsel and foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 30) because:

(Acts 15:18) – Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
------------

This provides me some understanding of the 'last Adam' per scripture.

There will be no other human beings made or created by the Father for our salvation, it is all done, the last Adam has already come.
 

GodsGrace

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1:1.

I actually get a verse of that translation everyday. That happened to be today’s verse. Other than attack the translation, care to answer the question? If Jesus being one with God makes him God does us being one with God make us God? If not, why not?
Do YOU ever answer my questions?
NO.

I will say this: I am NOT a LDS, or, as they hate to be called A MORMON.

I'm a Christian Wrangler.
I believe what Christians believe.

Just try to remember that YOU are not Jesus.
The Holy Spirit did not father you....
And Mary did not birth you.
 

Grailhunter

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Old story GH.
Some bibles actually say YAWEH.
Looks like God still has His name.
Looks like man cannot change God or His name.

You also keep posting incorrect information about church history.
I'm tired of debating this with you.

You also keep stating that there are two Gods.
Gosh...even the heretics on here don't believe this.

Maybe YOU are being deceived?
Maybe you went to the wrong theology university?
You shoulda picked one that taught Christianity.

Show me a Bible that says Yahweh.
The one I know that have Yahweh and Yeshua in them are called Sacred Names Bibles.
The name Yahweh appeared in the Paleo-Hebrew text around 6,800 times....then that was replace with the tetragrammaton YHWH
Then that was replaced with the word God or Lord or both.

Maybe YOU are being deceived?
Maybe you went to the wrong theology university?
You shoulda picked one that taught Christianity.

Do not get rude GodsGrace it is beneath you.

God Bless
 

Grailhunter

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‘So you believe Moses saw God the Father?

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD is God the Father?


  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6
‘So you believe Moses saw God the Father?

Do you believe the Angel of the LORD is God the Father?


  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6

What do the scriptures say? Angel of the Lord....Angel.
Did Moses see God? He hid his face.
 

Grailhunter

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You made the claim, yes, but your claim isn’t really factual.


Why should them being one God necessitate sitting on each other’s lap? Jesus is both God and man; the Father is spirit.



It cannot be otherwise.



Yet, it cannot be otherwise.



Again, it cannot be otherwise.



That’s because there aren’t three Gods. As I pointed out, God, Jesus, Paul, James, and Jude all say there is only one God. Shouldn’t we stick to what they all say, which is the consistent message throughout the entire Bible?



If the OT references are true, then your position is false. If the NT references are true, then your position is false.

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called godsin heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

That is very detailed essay with scriptures so believe or not.
In the New Testament the Apostles referred to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord.
 

GodsGrace

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His yoke also speaks of another famous passage statement Trinitarians love to (mis)quote.

Isaiah 6:9 YLT
6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.
So who is this child that will be called MIGHTY GOD?

(for those reading along the verse is Isaiah 9:6)

Is it a descendent of David?
He'll be a mighty God?

And verse 9:2 THE PEOPLE WHO WALK IN DARKNESS SHALL SEE A GREAT LIGHT.

Sounds a lot like:

Matthew 4:16-17
12-17 When Jesus got word that John had been arrested, he returned to Galilee. He moved from his hometown, Nazareth, to the lakeside village Capernaum, nestled at the base of the Zebulun and Naphtali hills. This move completed Isaiah’s revelation:

Land of Zebulun, land of Naphtali,
road to the sea, over Jordan,
Galilee, crossroads for the nations.
People sitting out their lives in the dark
saw a huge light;
Sitting in that dark, dark country of death,
they watched the sun come up.



Jesus was also that light - besides being the Mighty God:

Luke 2
25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:

29 “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation
31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,

And the glory of Your people Israel.”



Isaiah 6:9 LSV
6 For a Child has been born to us, || A Son has been given to us, || And the dominion is on His shoulder, || And He calls His Name || Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, || Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

The Hebrew word for shoulder here, (shekem), actually means the spur of a hill or the back of the neck between the shoulders, the place of burdens, and the place where the yoke rests on an ox or bull, etc. The Princely Power of the Dominion-Government is the one and only-kind Son of Elohim: the Word of the Father, the Testimony of the Father, and the Witness of the Father.
Yes sir.
Become flesh, just as John 1:14 states.

It is accepted that the explanation for Jesus' statement that HIS yoke is easy and HIS burden is light is due to the heavey burden the Pharisees had placed on the Jews by having to follow all the rules of THE LAW.


Matthew 23:4 Jesus said.
4 And they tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders,



Isaiah 6:9
6 For a child has been born unto us, a son has been given unto us, and the princely power (of the dominion) is upon His neck: and he calls His name, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty El, my Father's Witness/Testimony, (
אבי עד), the Prince of Peace.

From Strong's since you understand Hebrew.

KJV: God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong
NASB: God, gods, mighty, Mighty One, God's, power
Word Origin: [shortened from H352 (אַיִל - Ram)]

1. strength
2. (as adjective) mighty
3. (especially) the Almighty (but used also of any deity)

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
God, goodly, great, idol, mighty one, power, strong
Shortened from 'ayil; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity) -- God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."


El = GOD

El .... the names of GOD.
In this case. El Shaddai
 

GodsGrace

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Show me a Bible that says Yahweh.
The one I know that have Yahweh and Yeshua in them are called Sacred Names Bibles.
The name Yahweh appeared in the Paleo-Hebrew text around 6,800 times....then that was replace with the tetragrammaton YHWH
Then that was replaced with the word God or Lord or both.

Maybe YOU are being deceived?
Maybe you went to the wrong theology university?
You shoulda picked one that taught Christianity.

Do not get rude GodsGrace it is beneath you.

God Bless
Yahweh is still in the Old Testament:

Exodus 64:6-7
6 Then Yahweh passed by in front of him and called out, “Yahweh, Yahweh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and [a]truth;


Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares Yahweh,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.


Deuteronomy 7:9
9 You shall know therefore that Yahweh your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps [a]His covenant and [b]His lovingkindness to a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;



Try the Legacy Standard Bible.
You'll like it.
 
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Justified

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That is very detailed essay with scriptures so believe or not.
In the New Testament the Apostles referred to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord.
You’re avoiding addressing the passages which each make very clear, plain statements. There is only God; there has always been only one God.

You’re also ignoring the fact that a true God cannot come into existence. The very nature of God, that which makes him God, includes eternal, absolute existence. That is one of the very reasons why Yahweh clearly and plainly said there would be no other god after him—because the very idea is absurd; it’s a theological and logical impossibility.
 
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Grailhunter

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Yahweh is still in the Old Testament:

Exodus 64:6-7
6 Then Yahweh passed by in front of him and called out, “Yahweh, Yahweh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and [a]truth;


Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares Yahweh,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.


Deuteronomy 7:9
9 You shall know therefore that Yahweh your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps [a]His covenant and [b]His lovingkindness to a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;



Try the Legacy Standard Bible.
You'll like it.

A translation that they put His back in there.
Just so you know Yahweh's name is not in the Septuagint.
 

Grailhunter

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You’re avoiding addressing the passages which each make very clear, plain statements. There is only God; there has always been only one God.

You’re also ignoring the fact that a true God cannot come into existence. The very nature of God, that which makes him God, includes eternal, absolute existence. That is one of the very reasons why Yahweh clearly and plainly said there would be no other god after him—because the very idea is absurd; it’s a theological and logical impossibility.

Yeshua is a true God and the scriptures describe his first appearance as the Son of Yahweh and Miriam.
 

Grailhunter

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You made the claim, yes, but your claim isn’t really factual.


Why should them being one God necessitate sitting on each other’s lap? Jesus is both God and man; the Father is spirit.



It cannot be otherwise.



Yet, it cannot be otherwise.



Again, it cannot be otherwise.



That’s because there aren’t three Gods. As I pointed out, God, Jesus, Paul, James, and Jude all say there is only one God. Shouldn’t we stick to what they all say, which is the consistent message throughout the entire Bible?



If the OT references are true, then your position is false. If the NT references are true, then your position is false.

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called godsin heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Most of these are Old Testament references or in fact prove my point.
But if you put the Gospels in motion Yeshua and Yahweh are talking or praying or referring to each other.
"each other" Not the same one and not talking to themselves.
 

Justified

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Yeshua is a true God and the scriptures describe his first appearance as the Son of Yahweh and Miriam.
No, he cannot be if he came into existence. By the very definition of the nature of God, he cannot be God, in any sense. By the very fact that Yahweh says there will not be another God after him, he also cannot be another God.

Most of these are Old Testament references or in fact prove my point.
No, they very clearly prove tritheism to be false. One God and only one God, forever.

But if you put the Gospels in motion Yeshua and Yahweh are talking or praying or referring to each other.
"each other" Not the same one and not talking to themselves.
Straw man. Again, first go learn that there is only one God, which the Bible clearly and repeatedly states throughout. Then go learn what the doctrine of the trinity actually teaches. Then we can have a real discussion.
 
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dak

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Typical avoidance of the key Scriptures which deal with Christ's nature.

There is no doubt that God was manifested in the flesh of His Son and achieved victory over sin’s flesh. However, God cannot literally dwell in what is unclean or corrupting, under the condemnation of the law of sin working in Christ's members. If death was at work in Christ, then He cannot be the literal person of Yahweh. Rather, it was in the mind and obedience of His Son that Yahweh led captivity captive.

If you spent more time considering the nature of Christ as taught by the apostles, you would understand that Christ began His existence in the same way you did.

Galatians 4:4!

Keep searching dak you will find the true Messiah.

You are mistaken: you accused me of twisting the words of Paul when the only passage I had spoken of was the Eph 4 passage that I referred to with the partial quote from Psalm 68:18, it was very specific. You then quoted some other passage from Paul that I never mentioned as your supposed evidence for your false accusation. I then responded with a fairly full explanation of what I had been speaking about, and that post also included a quote from another poster who had responded to the same issue. Anyone can go back and see exactly what happened.

What your response reveals is that you yourself are doing exactly what I said would be the case by doing exactly what you have falsely accused me of doing. In your response, pitting scripture against scripture, (using a different passage from Paul which I never spoke about), and by ignoring the passage that I did indeed speak of, which Paul quotes and expounds from in the Eph 4 passage, shows that you must assume that Paul cherry picked half a verse from Psalm 68:18 and repurposed it for your Christadelphian version of Jesus. Thus you do the same as Trinitarianism does, wresting the scriptures in order to uphold your indoctrination which has given birth to your beloved dogmas.

Psalm 68:18
18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive, You have brought gifts among men [Eph 4:8] and wrath to the rebellious, that Yah Elohim the Blessed might tabernacle therein.

Psalm 68:18 Trinitarian-Christadelphian Mentally Corrected Text According to their version of Paul
18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive, You have received gifts for men, yea, even the rebellious, that Yah Elohim Jesus might dwell there.

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Hiddenthings

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You are mistaken: you accused me of twisting the words of Paul when the only passage I had spoken of was the Eph 4 passage that I referred to with the partial quote from Psalm 68:18, it was very specific. You then quoted some other passage from Paul that I never mentioned as your supposed evidence for your false accusation. I then responded with a fairly full explanation of what I had been speaking about, and that post also included a quote from another poster who had responded to the same issue. Anyone can go back and see exactly what happened.
You have a history of twisting the Word of God to fit into your own theology.
What your response reveals is that you yourself are doing exactly what I said would be the case by doing exactly what you have falsely accused me of doing. In your response, pitting scripture against scripture, (using a different passage from Paul which I never spoke about), and by ignoring the passage that I did indeed speak of, which Paul quotes and expounds from in the Eph 4 passage, shows that you must assume that Paul cherry picked half a verse from Psalm 68:18 and repurposed it for your Christadelphian version of Jesus. Thus you do the same as Trinitarianism does, wresting the scriptures in order to uphold your indoctrination which has given birth to your beloved dogmas.
No, dak you are the one misrepresenting the Word by forcing your own interpretive twist.
Psalm 68:18
18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive, You have brought gifts among men [Eph 4:8] and wrath to the rebellious, that Yah Elohim the Blessed might tabernacle therein.

Psalm 68:18 Trinitarian-Christadelphian Mentally Corrected Text According to their version of Paul
18 You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive, You have received gifts for men, yea, even the rebellious, that Yah Elohim Jesus might dwell there.

View attachment 78610
No need for your theatrics dak.

Psalm 68:18 looks back to a significant development in Israel’s wilderness experience: Moses “led captivity captive”, meaning that the captives of Egypt had now become God’s captives, on whom He bestows His blessings rather than imposing harsh bondage. The same idiom appears elsewhere in Deuteronomy 21:10–13, where the phrase “has taken them captive” parallels “led captivity captive”, here, women captives of conquered peoples are brought into a far more pleasant captivity.

You Received Gifts from Men: This refers to the gifts of wisdom from the Holy Spirit given to Moses’ seventy helpers (Numbers 11:24–25), when “the Lord came down” in the person of the Angel of the Covenant (Exodus 23:20–25). In Scripture, the phrase “coming down” is a well-established idiom for a theophany (Genesis 11:5; 18:21; Exodus 3:7–8, 19:11,18–20; 34:5; Psalm 19:8; Isaiah 64:1), while “you ascended on high” indicates the conclusion of this divine appearance.

Gifts from Men: The gifts given to and received from men (Hebrew laqach, which is ambiguous) may also allude to the Levites, who were simultaneously a gift from God to Israel and a gift from Israel to God (Numbers 3:5–10; 8:9–10; 17:6).

Even from the Rebellious: This likely refers to Eldad and Medad, who did not join the others at the sanctuary but remained among the people and prophesied there. Moses’ calm remark “I wish that all the Lord’s people were prophets” (Numbers 11:29) shows the value of their contribution. David undoubtedly saw the relevance of this when, after bringing the Ark to Zion, he organized a full service of praise through the prophesying of Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun, and others (1 Chronicles 25). This explains why this verse is inserted at this point.

That You, O Lord God, Might Dwell There: The term “dwell” comes from the Hebrew word shakan, from which the concept of the Shekinah Glory is derived.

New Testament Perspective: Jesus, who ascended on high AFTER his resurrection, will in due time receive gifts for men, literally, “for the man,” meaning the one perfect man, His Ecclesia (Ephesians 4:13). He will then lead His captivity captive, delivering His people into a more gracious form of covenantal service, so that the Lord God (in the person of His Son) might dwell among them. As Paul emphasizes, this ascension must be preceded by a descent into the lower parts, into the depths of the earth or the grave. The first triumph requires sharing in human weakness, culminating inevitably in his death.

Your difficulty lies in not fully grasping the teaching of God’s Manifestation and the manner in which an Angel or the Son can participate in His Name.

And BTW inserting the Masters name "Yahweh is salvation" does nothing for your understanding of Who Yahweh is or how He revealed Himself through a condemned Son.

One day you will learn!
 
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