Who Started That Lie?

[lforrest]

Some day soon
you are going to answer by the execution of judgement upon you
for all the people you have bothered that came to this forum and never did nothing to you.

All the people to which you slandered
and spoke evil to without any cause whatsoever
and upon that never did anything to you
in fact they did not even know you.

God told me your soon to be punished for it.

That day is going to come upon you very soon.

Just to let you know your aliases do not count as multiple people.

 

[Grailhunter]

A. Opens the topic of the difference of saved and salvation.
B. Is referring to the complexities of predestination from God's perspective and our inability to comprehend the same.
It equates to the question of the "nature of God" neat to speculate, impossible to reason.

 

[Taken]

WHICH ONE IS THE LIE?

You pick:

A.
Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Correct

B.
All that are saved, are saved by God through Jesus Christ.

Correct

It is a matter of acknowledging and considering ALL the Facts.

Something that Transpires BETWEEN...
A man and God; Requires the knowledge and consider of the WHOLE of God and the WHOLE of A man.

For example, I can say...."I SAID"..blah, blah.

You require no further explanation....that
"I SAID"....blah, blah.....BY my Minds Thoughts, and By my muscles power, for my word to come forth in speech.

Scripture is from beginning to end, teaching us ABOUT God....
Thoughts of God...
Power of God...
Word of God...

Gods thoughts ... Have a NAME...His mind, His Counsel, LORD, Jehovah, Yahweh, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Holy, Righteousness, etc.

Gods Power...Has a NAME...Christ, Mighty, Light, Almighty, Holy, Righteousness, etc.

Gods Word...Has a NAME...Jesus, Son, Faithful, Savior, Redeemer, Truth, Holy, Righteousness, etc.

Then there are a LIST of things;
God OFFERS A man;

Ie:
Forgiveness, Knowledge, Salvation, His Seed, His Truth,
Quickening, A new Heart, A new Spirit, Blessings, Gifts, Jesus' Body, etc.

For Everything God OFFERS US, He HIGHLIGHTS, WHICH part of HIM to Acknowledge, in Specific Remembrance..(while we still know it is the WHOLE of God that operates together)....But it is NOT always the WHOLE of God, that WE actually receive when receiving a Gift from Him.

For example A man can Receive the Blessing of God of a Healed Body....which does not mean a man has Received forgiveness, or Grace or Salvation or Quickening from God.

We receive Gifts for our particular actions.
Believe, we receive measures of Faith.
We receive measures of Faith, Because OF Gods Grace (of giving us something we are not deserving of)... Like measures of Faith.

Measures of faith are given to men, who may or may NOT believe. Thus we wonder how does a man who does not believe, deserve a measure of Faith?

Without measures of Faith being given a man, the man can not become Saved;

Meaning Faith is Required for a man to Possess, BEFORE the man CAN be Saved.

Saved THROUGH Jesus (Word of God) Christ (Power of God). Yes, Jesus Christ is the catalyisis...Go between...preparing a man to Receive Salvation, and the Receiving of Salvation is BY and THROUGH...the Word of God and the Power of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

Correct



Correct

It is a matter of acknowledging and considering ALL the Facts.

Something that Transpires BETWEEN...
A man and God; Requires the knowledge and consider of the WHOLE of God and the WHOLE of A man.

For example, I can say...."I SAID"..blah, blah.

You require no further explanation....that
"I SAID"....blah, blah.....BY my Minds Thoughts, and By my muscles power, for my word to come forth in speech.

Scripture is from beginning to end, teaching us ABOUT God....
Thoughts of God...
Power of God...
Word of God...

Gods thoughts ... Have a NAME...His mind, His Counsel, LORD, Jehovah, Yahweh, Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Holy, Righteousness, etc.

Gods Power...Has a NAME...Christ, Mighty, Light, Almighty, Holy, Righteousness, etc.

Gods Word...Has a NAME...Jesus, Son, Faithful, Savior, Redeemer, Truth, Holy, Righteousness, etc.

Then there are a LIST of things;
God OFFERS A man;

Ie:
Forgiveness, Knowledge, Salvation, His Seed, His Truth,
Quickening, A new Heart, A new Spirit, Blessings, Gifts, Jesus' Body, etc.

For Everything God OFFERS US, He HIGHLIGHTS, WHICH part of HIM to Acknowledge, in Specific Remembrance..(while we still know it is the WHOLE of God that operates together)....But it is NOT always the WHOLE of God, that WE actually receive when receiving a Gift from Him.

For example A man can Receive the Blessing of God of a Healed Body....which does not mean a man has Received forgiveness, or Grace or Salvation or Quickening from God.

We receive Gifts for our particular actions.
Believe, we receive measures of Faith.
We receive measures of Faith, Because OF Gods Grace (of giving us something we are not deserving of)... Like measures of Faith.

Measures of faith are given to men, who may or may NOT believe. Thus we wonder how does a man who does not believe, deserve a measure of Faith?

Without measures of Faith being given a man, the man can not become Saved;

Meaning Faith is Required for a man to Possess, BEFORE the man CAN be Saved.

Saved THROUGH Jesus (Word of God) Christ (Power of God). Yes, Jesus Christ is the catalyisis...Go between...preparing a man to Receive Salvation, and the Receiving of Salvation is BY and THROUGH...the Word of God and the Power of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thank you for your response. Well written but then a little all over the place. Still the question...what is the difference between saved and
salvation?

 

[Taken]

Thank you for your response. Well written but then a little all over the place. Still the question...what is the difference between saved and
salvation?

Your question;
What is the difference between saved and salvation?

First: saved and salvation must be considered it Involves TWO parties.

Salvation Involves the 1st Party; God
Salvation is AN OFFERING God Himself established, and Offers.

Saved Involves the 2nd Party; Individual of the whole of Mankind.
Salvation Offered BY God, AND the Offering Accepted BY an Individual, results in the Individual BECOMING, "MADE" Saved.

Earth, is DRY Land, created By God.
From the Created Dry Land, God created a KIND of Thing, God called a MAN KIND of thing. A Terrestrial.
Gods Desire is that EVERY Individual Terrestrial Man Kind of Thing...WILL solicit/choose/elect thee Lord God Almighty to BE "the individuals" Personal God.

Who can solicit/choose/elect What they Know not? Thus God Himself has provided Man kind of things with a plethora of ways and means, to learn About God Himself.

And the EFFORT of an individual TO Learn About God, rests on the individual's OWN Desire to exert that effort and diligence TO Learn About God / or Not.
(Freewill of the individual)

Salvation OFFERED, By God, IS an OFFERING to Every single individual man kind of thing.

The man kind of thing...IS FLESH and Bone, and its LIFE IS its BLOOD...

The man kind of thing...once it is created IS "MADE" alive by receiving a LIVING SOUL.

Salvation IS OFFERED (By God)...TO SAVE WHAT?

To SAVE; The Flesh, bone, blood of the man? No.
To SAVE; The natural spirit of a man (which is the mans natural truth in his heart)?
No.
To SAVE WHAT?
The Living Soul within the mans flesh body.

WHY?
All souls BELONG to God, regardless, if they are IN or OUT of a mans body, and are called by the mans NAME.
All LIFE from God, Belongs to God, regardless, if the Life is IN a vessel God created and Put Life in the vessel, or removes Life OUT of the vessel.

The BODY (a created vessel) of man "IS" already sentenced TO DIE. God requires the Body's LIFE (its Blood), No one escapes that Sentence.

The SOUL, in or out of a body, belongs to God.
The LIFE, in or out of the Soul, belongs to God.
A man, (BODY), with his own LIFE (blood) Alive (blood flowing, beating the heart)...
Also has a LIFE source IN HIS BODY...
The LIVING SOUL.

(Gods LIFE, Gods vessel SOUL).

Mankind iS created, (the formed body, vessel)...CORRUPT...meaning NOT knowing or Loving the Lord God Almighty.

And for every passing moment, a man kind of thing, HAS Gods "Living soul", IN the mans CORRUPT BODY ... the LIVING SOUL, is being subjected to the Body's Corruption. (Being Against God)...and thus the LIVING SOUL (that belongs to God) is by default being Corrupted....BY being IN the individuals own FLESH Body.

ONLY as long as the individual's own LIFE..
BLOOD, functioning, can an individual own BODY, function; learn, hear, make choices, make elections.

Thus WHILE a man IS alive in his own Corrupt Flesh, can an individual man, Choose/Elect, To, Accept Gods OFFERING of SALVATION, TO SAVE,....The Living Soul, God Himself has blown into the nostrils of that individual.

So what DOES, it mean, when a man Elects to Accept Gods Offering of Salvation?

First it means the man has ELECTED, Thee Lord God Almighty "EXCLUSIVELY" to be that individuals ONE and Only God Above ALL other gods.

Secondly it mean that God WILL "RESTORE" that mans soul, TO its "GOODNESS" it was WHEN God gave it to the man kind of thing.

It means FOREVER, that SOUL SHALL Maintain/KEEP within it LIFE from God.

And IF a man REJECTS, Accepting Gods OFFERING of SOUL (saving/restoration) ?

After a period of time passing...
The Life of the BODY, (Blood) will depart the body.
The Life of the SOUL, (Gods Breath) will depart the soul, and "RETURN" to God...and the Body and Soul Destroyed.
The mans Natural truth (ie natural spirit) in his heart, will Never have been quickened, (born again) with Gods Seed ... thus the mans natural spirit (ie natural truth) will be destroyed along with his body.

God "creates" things.
God "creates" things, from "existing things He has already "created".
God "creates" things, that never existed,
By;
The Authority of His own Eternal Existence;
The Word of His mouth;
and by;
Supreme Power of His Spirit.

Thereafter, God changes the things he "Creates"....
BY "MAKING" the things CHANGED...
BY "giving and taking away".

Gen 1
[1] In the beginning God CREATED the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1
[27] God created man...

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man OF the dust of the ground
God breathed into his nostrils the breath OF life;
and man became a living soul.

Ezek 18: (Saith the Lord)
[4] All souls are mine ...

Gen 5
[1] ... In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

[3] And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own (CORRUPT) likeness, after his image; (CORRUPT natural seed) and called his name Seth:

John 1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him... I am the life...

John 6
[51] I am...came down from Heaven....
that I will give is my flesh, ,
which I will give ...
for the life of the world.


Heb 10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the "Offering of the body" of Jesus Christ "once for all."


Everything that God HAS CREATED, Becomes CHANGED, by the Word of God's "MAKING" it changed. By "giving the created thing something or taking away from the created thing something".

Job 1
[21] ...the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; ...

Gen 9
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require;

Pertains to Gods Offering of SALVATION...

An OFFERING of CHANGE in a man, is Offered BY God, for Him to MAKE particular and everlasting CHANGES in a man...

And the Caveat is...
Each Individual must DECIDE Himself "IF" He wants to Accept Gods Offering...or Not.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

Thank you very much. Debates are fun, I have been doing it my whole life. The problem with only referencing scriptures is that for every
scriptural point there is a scriptural counterpoint. So its a continual circle without resolution. Which is one of the many reasons for the church
fracturing, as it is there are over 38,000 protestant denominations, which has reduced the power of the church. The scriptures are Holy and important but you cannot read them like you are reading the latest edition of the Sunday paper. As it is, it takes a whole lot of research to find the truth. What we have now is mostly the blind leading the blind.

 

[Taken]

Thank you very much. Debates are fun, I have been doing it my whole life. The problem with only referencing scriptures is that for every
scriptural point there is a scriptural counterpoint. So its a continual circle without resolution. Which is one of the many reasons for the church
fracturing, as it is there are over 38,000 protestant denominations, which has reduced the power of the church. The scriptures are Holy and important but you cannot read them like you are reading the latest edition of the Sunday paper. As it is, it takes a whole lot of research to find the truth. What we have now is mostly the blind leading the blind.

Everything is single, but intertwined and connected parts...God, Animals, Angels, Man, the World...

So speaking of one thing, by default involves the connective parts....and then guessing another in discussion actually understands the connections, while trying to have discussion ABOUT knowledge, IS the challenge.

Scripture IS the KNOWLEDGE.
And men all conclude different Understanding per the extent of the KNOWLEDGE they possess.
Yet the KEY is read, learn, verify the KNOWLEDGE,(scripture against Sripture) TRUST it is True and WAIT, for God to give HIS Understanding of the meaning of the KNOWLEDGE.
WAIT? Ha! The World dictates WAITING, is acceptably intolerable.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The problem with only referencing scriptures is that for every
scriptural point there is a scriptural counterpoint.

Another point.
Scripture was not Originally Written with punction breaks.
Now that we have transcriptions with punctions....It can also be confusing BECAUSE, a Portion of one Verse may Apply to the person, while another portion of the same verse may absolutely NOT Apply to the same person.
And people in general like to discuss things in a general sense, more so, than details and specifics, also IMO lending to worthless discussion.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

Thanks. The Torah was written as one continuous word with no vowels, except Y and written in all caps. Another big problem
with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures was when they decided to brake up the sentences into verses. Which sometimes changed the meaning.
And then of course there was the removal of God the Father and God the Son's names from the Old and New Testament. If it is important
to you, research it...if not pick one. There are different ways to pick a religion...if the truth is not important it might as well be a
selection by darts. There are 38,000 Protestant denominations, obviously someone is using darts. Good Luck

 

[Marymog]

Don't you have to repent in Spirit and truth to be forgiven of your sins?

Or will lip service be sufficient enough for God?

Hi,

I think you are basically saying one's repentance must be sincere (not just lip service) before you can be forgiven. If that is what you are saying.....I agree with you.

Mary

 

[aspen]

Come out in the open where we all can see...

Pick either A or B

for they both cannot be a lie.

Well....they could

 

[Enoch111]

There are 38,000 Protestant denominations

You could drop the last three zeros and also 38. About 20 non-Catholic denominations would be about right. I believe the Catholics added the zeros to put down Protestants. Then again, the Reformers had a duty to come to a consensus about the fundamentals. I believe the Five Solas are close to those fundamentals. Back to the denominations:
CALVINISTIC
1. Lutherans
2. Presbyterians
3. Reformed Churches
4. Anglicans/Episcopalians
5. Methodists

CHARISMATIC
6. Pentecostals (several kinds)

NON-CHARISTMATIC
7. Baptists (several kinds)
8. Seventh Day Adventists
9. Church of God
10. Church of Christ
11. Apostolic Churches
12. Orthodox
13. Mennonites/Anabaptists
14. Quakers
15.Restoration Movement Groups
16. Free Evangelicals
17. Non-denominational groups
18. Christian Science
19. Unitarians
20. Messianic Jews

 

[Grailhunter]

You could drop the last three zeros and also 38. About 20 non-Catholic denominations would be about right. I believe the Catholics added the zeros to put down Protestants. Then again, the Reformers had a duty to come to a consensus about the fundamentals. I believe the Five Solas are close to those fundamentals. Back to the denominations:
CALVINISTIC
1. Lutherans
2. Presbyterians
3. Reformed Churches
4. Anglicans/Episcopalians
5. Methodists

CHARISMATIC
6. Pentecostals (several kinds)

NON-CHARISTMATIC
7. Baptists (several kinds)
8. Seventh Day Adventists
9. Church of God
10. Church of Christ
11. Apostolic Churches
12. Orthodox
13. Mennonites/Anabaptists
14. Quakers
15.Restoration Movement Groups
16. Free Evangelicals
17. Non-denominational groups
18. Christian Science
19. Unitarians
20. Messianic Jews

It does not take much to find out that there is more than what you have listed. Time consuming study and even longer if you look into why there are so many. But I am ok with you believing that. There are books on the topic and the internet will count it 'em up for ya. The last thing I am going to do is debate it because there are just too many resources. Certainly there is room for opinion and the numbers do vary a little depending on the source. Worldwide I am sure there are duplicates under different names. Either way there are a lot of them.

 

[shnarkle]

WHICH ONE IS THE LIE?

You pick:

A.
Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

B.
All that are saved, are saved by God through Jesus Christ.
This was established and confirmed before any of them were born in the flesh.
That would require nothing from the receiver other than going through
the process of being born on earth and all that it curtails.

B. That's definitely a lie.

 

[aspen]

You could drop the last three zeros and also 38. About 20 non-Catholic denominations would be about right. I believe the Catholics added the zeros to put down Protestants. Then again, the Reformers had a duty to come to a consensus about the fundamentals. I believe the Five Solas are close to those fundamentals. Back to the denominations:
CALVINISTIC
1. Lutherans
2. Presbyterians
3. Reformed Churches
4. Anglicans/Episcopalians
5. Methodists

CHARISMATIC
6. Pentecostals (several kinds)

NON-CHARISTMATIC
7. Baptists (several kinds)
8. Seventh Day Adventists
9. Church of God
10. Church of Christ
11. Apostolic Churches
12. Orthodox
13. Mennonites/Anabaptists
14. Quakers
15.Restoration Movement Groups
16. Free Evangelicals
17. Non-denominational groups
18. Christian Science
19. Unitarians
20. Messianic Jews

SDA alone has spawned hundreds of denominations