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Whose government do you defend or speak good about?

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics Forum' started by Buzzfruit, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Do you proclaim and trumpet God's government or man's government? What government did Jesus preached about? Was it man's government, the Jewish system that He proclaim or some other? Can you proclaim anyone of man's government and be loyal and faithful to God's government?
     
  2. Prentis

    Prentis New Member

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    I think these are very valid questions, and important ones.

    So many times, here in North America, the two are confused and mingled, as though it were possible, which actually makes for a perverted gospel.
     
  3. biggandyy

    biggandyy I am here to help...

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    God does not "govern", He Rules. He is a King and therefore, by definition, NOT a government. He reigns alone, impartial, and just.
     
  4. Prentis

    Prentis New Member

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    But he has a kingdom! :)
     
  5. biggandyy

    biggandyy I am here to help...

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    Yes, and we are His SUBJECTS, not citizens. We obey and reap the reward of obedience; we disobey and reap the punishment of justice. Still not a government.
     
  6. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    From the choir loft:

    I'm not sure what these references to 'proclaiming' are all about. Certainly no one goes about in the land stating the obvious; that the government of these united States was created by the hand of man for the purpose of the restraint of man.

    On the other hand, I believe that much of Jesus' message was meant to proclaim something that wasn't quite so obvious at the time; the Kingdom of God. Jesus taught something about the Kingdom of God that was shockingly different from the dominion of man, that instead of being repressed, God meant us to enjoy liberty.

    To Jesus, the law was not something to be tossed aside. Neither was it the well spring of holy liberty. Love of God was and always is - at the root of liberty in God's Kingdom. It cannot be otherwise for it fulfills and supercedes God's law. It is holy.

    But does allegiance to God also apply to the government of man? Here is a stumbling block that trips many.

    If God is just and has provided the way of liberty, ought we to bend our knee to wickedness in the domain of man wherein such unholy laws are designed to oppress the poor and benefit the powerful? Does not even God's law revealed to us in nature uphold justice? The stars in their courses proclaim the righteousness of God.

    In my opinion the difference is a matter of jurisdiction.

    When the law of man transgresses the justice of God's revealed will, that law and that government no longer deserves our allegiance.
    By its actions, such a government has proven itself in rebellion against the Most High and ought to be resisted.

    The issue then boils down to a simple question, is our ultimate allegiance to God or to the dominion of man?

    Every day the choice is becoming more clear. The God of history, the Lord of Lords, is about to lead us to places we've never been before. He is calling all of us to consecrate ourselves unto Him that we may make our way by His guidance to safe harbors. It is time to choose between two kingdoms.

    On the solid ROCK I stand, all others are sinking sand.
     
  7. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    You see this is the problem: You can't proclaim something if you don't know what it is or have an incorrect understanding of what it is you are to proclaim. So you understanding is incorrect.....to rule is government. It just means that God's rule or government is not like man's Satan inspired government.......a king has a government. The Bible refers to God's rule as a government.

    Isaiah 9:7 (KJV)
    [sup]7 [/sup]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Government
    Hebrew Word: ‏מִשְׂרָה‎
    Transliteration: miśrâ
    Phonetic Pronunciation: mis-raw'
    Root: from <H8280>
    Cross Reference: TWOT - 2288a
    Part of Speech: n f
    Vine's Words: None






    from <H8280> (sarah); empire :- government.

    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary


    God's government is a government where not only are His children citizens of His kingdom but they are also kings. We are kings, now, but are waiting for the return of Jesus so that we can rule with Him, not only over the entire Earth, but the universe as well.


    The sad thing is the false teaching about Christians going to Heaven when Jesus returns caused Christians not to fully understand the gospel. The gospel is not about Calvary. Jesus did not even tell His disciples that He came to die until when His crucifixion was near. But for three and a half years Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom of God. He likened it to a farmer who sowed seeds or a master that gave each of his servants money to invest;whom he would later reward with ruler ship over cites according to how well they did with his money.

    Jesus even said that when the gospel of the kingdom is preached around the world the end would come. We are in the last days but the end is not here yet. Why? Because we are preaching about Jesus to the world except the message that Jesus preached. Jesus never said we should go into the world and preach about Him......He told His disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom to the world, and baptized all those who believe that gospel.
     
  8. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Wrong again. We are Citizens of God's kingdom. But not only Citizens, we are kings as well. We are not ruling as kings at this point in time but when Jesus returns we will rule with Him.

    Philippians 3:20 (ASV)
    [sup]20 [/sup]For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    This scripture comes to mind.

    Revelation 18:4 (ESV)
    [sup]4 [/sup]Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
     
  9. Prentis

    Prentis New Member

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    Yes, everyone reaps what he sows.

    What do you mean though? What difference are you making between government and kingdom?

    Isn't a government an order of ruling and authority, simply?

    There is indeed an order in God's kingdom, as a government. There is such a thing as rulers, shepherds, overseers... Though not as the world! :)
     
  10. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    You are correct.
     
  11. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Interesting that up to this point 47 views but most have not answered my questions. A lot of Christians have trumpeted more the virtues of democracy than they have of God's government....and some don't even know what God's government is let alone to even preach about it......this might explain the why the vast majority that have viewed this post have not responded.
     
  12. Insight

    Insight New Member

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    Good OP Buzz.

    I am a conscientious objector for this very reason.

    I refrain from voting and taking part in any politics, unions, armed forces etc.

    There are many divine principles that guide me in this decision; here are a few.

    1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims abstain from fleshly lusts.

    Heb.11:13-16 ...confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. ...they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city.

    Heb.13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

    Dan.4:17 the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth, it to whomsoever he will,

    Of course being a matter of conscience we all must search out the matter and be convinced in our own minds.

    Insight

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    I dont mind putting my statement before you all in this matter
    .
    I believe " that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of men" Dan 4:17, and "for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." Rom.13:1. I believe God is controlling the affairs of the nations and will bring them to the final battle of Armageddon, Rev.16:16, when the governments of men shall be removed and the righteous dominion of God shall be established Ps.72. Therefore I take no part in the politics of this present order and trust in the providence of God to accomplish His will and purpose.


    Amen and once again Amen.



     
  13. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Those are some very good reasons.
     
  14. Prentis

    Prentis New Member

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    Good thoughts, Insight. :)

    Also, how can we on the one hand promote killing for our defense (as all countries), and yet promote dying for all? It is impossible!

    Following the call of Christ makes being an ambassador of the world impossible. We can only truly promote one kingdom, either an earthly one, or God's.
     
  15. lawrance

    lawrance New Member

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    Yes a government's Constitution should say that they are under God ?
    But some want to be God.
     
  16. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Even if they did they would still not be God's government. The only intuition that represents God's government here on the Earth is the Church and the individual Christian. But sadly, most Christians do not seem to know this.
     
  17. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Nations like the U.S., the British Commonwealth, and those of continental Europe (including eastern Europe prior to Communism), were founded as traditional Christian nations. That was the main belief of the majority of its founders and its people only a few centuries after Christ's crucifixion, Britain converting to Christ in the first century A.D.

    It was those nations which took The Gospel of Jesus Christ to the rest of the nations. Many in other nations believed on Christ Jesus, and quite a number of those eventually migrated to those western Christian nations and became blessed under God along with them.

    But false ones also came, with the intent to overthrow the western Christian nations, and turn its people to following other things, and to forget God and His Christ.

    Now that we have entered a time of overthrow by the locusts, with special interest groups and minorities being given a greater say by the subversive locusts who got into positions of power over us, that means we should now HATE what our Christian nations originally stood for???

    If we the people, stand together as a majority under Christ Jesus, it matters not what the 'few' subversives call our nation, nor even when they claim our nation is not a Christian nation. News falsh: they don't represent the majority of the people in our nation anymore; they represent the subversives and special interest groups which they support over us.

    Not long now, and those subversives will be removed by our Lord Jesus at His coming. I'm looking forward to it, even to look over at them in the 'pit' to see their shame (Isa.14:15-16).

    Until then, I will support the good leaders in my country and its people, and will fight for them and serve them, as I have in the past.
     
  18. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    It was not the European Nations that took the gospel around the world anymore than the Jewish Nation responsible for Christianity. It was the individual Christians in those European Nations that did it. Because a Nation is influenced by Christians does not make that Nation a Christian Nation.
    Christian, as defined by the Bible is one that has been baptized and had a minister of God hands' laid on him or her, and have recieved the Holy Spirit. That cannot be said of any Nation or Country.
     
  19. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Sorry, I do not respond to 'subversives' coming here hiding as Christians. You're on my Ignore list.
     
  20. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    As you wish.
     
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